Star Wars #7 Character Details

[Joelist]

Actually the average moviegoer does give a toss about the original characters. They are what people actually remember about Star Wars (interestingly mostly people just seem to forget the prequels ever existed and key in on Luke, Han, Leia and Chewbacca et al). No doubt that came up in the inevitable market studies Disney/Lucasfilm did when deciding how to do this film. Once they concluded they needed at least part of the original cast the time setting was locked in pretty much.

As to the EU having conflicts, there are whole websites and forums devoted to it. Here are just two:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=163131

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/eu-vs-films.50008041/

And yes the quality is very uneven. The Thrawn Trilogy was quality. Dark Empire was rubbish and New Jedi Order was uneven to put it mildly. A lot of the blame goes on Lucas and Lucasfilm for claiming to be guarding the integrity of the story lines when in reality they did not (which became ultra clear in the prequels). This guy on Ars Technica goes overboard in his glee on the decision but he has some points:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014...-chainsaw-to-the-star-wars-expanded-universe/

 

[Joelist]

Which leads to question numero uno - why was The Clone Wars kept?

Probably for two reasons:

a) It has had more distribution than the games and books

b) It was basically made in an attempt to make the prequels make at least a small modicum of sense. Remove it and the prequels are back to being total gibberish.

So remove Clone Wars and basically you have to remove the prequels........now THAT would have been an interesting idea....

 

[Gatefan1976]

Actually the average moviegoer does give a toss about the original characters. They are what people actually remember about Star Wars (interestingly mostly people just seem to forget the prequels ever existed and key in on Luke, Han, Leia and Chewbacca et al).

No, the average movie-goer cares about those characters at the time of ROTJ, not about how they are 30-40 years later.

No doubt that came up in the inevitable market studies Disney/Lucasfilm did when deciding how to do this film. Once they concluded they needed at least part of the original cast the time setting was locked in pretty much.

Sure, and if that's the direction they have chosen to take, fine.

to the EU having conflicts, there are whole websites and forums devoted to it. Here are just two:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=163131

Um, they are threads, NOT websites...................
I don't deny the EU got messy, it did. I dislike stuff being kicked aside because it is now a "problem". It's like moving to a new apartment and drowning your cat because your new room has a "no pets allowed" sign.

And yes the quality is very uneven.

Anything running over that timespan with have "choppy bits" in it.

The Thrawn Trilogy was quality. Dark Empire was rubbish and New Jedi Order was uneven to put it mildly. A lot of the blame goes on Lucas and Lucasfilm for claiming to be guarding the integrity of the story lines when in reality they did not (which became ultra clear in the prequels). This guy on Ars Technica goes overboard in his glee on the decision but he has some points:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014...-chainsaw-to-the-star-wars-expanded-universe/

Qualty, "good" "bad" ALL these things are subjective. If we *both agree* that the Thrawn trilogy is good (and it seems we do) we are losing that as canon, simply because the actors can no longer play those characters, and quite frankly, that's pretty piss poor.

 

[Joelist]

GF, there are whole sites. I linked two threads as a small sample.

Really Star Trek in the past took a better approach to this type of material. They had "canon" and "non-canon" which they treated like an alternate universe. And that is what it sounds like Lucasfilm is doing now.

 

[Overmind One]

Frankly, I am glad we dont have to see Jaina, Jacen and Anakin Solo. I managed to acquire the first few books of The New Jedi Order, and I am not impressed. I can understand why Disney was forced to jettison the EU of Star Wars. Keeping all of the events of NJO would limit, perhaps even choke creativity from the writers. Nobody asked those fans to write the books and take the story where they wanted. Isnt that what Brad Wright did with Stargate? I guarantee you that Emmerich will declare all of Brad Wright's series of Stargate to be non-canon.

 

[Overmind One]

GF, there are whole sites. I linked two threads as a small sample.

Really Star Trek in the past took a better approach to this type of material. They had "canon" and "non-canon" which they treated like an alternate universe. And that is what it sounds like Lucasfilm is doing now.

Lots of Trek lore from fans became actual canon later in TNG and in the movies, with Roddenberry's blessings. What was discarded became non-canon but was still through and through Trek. Star Trek Phase II is the only fan created series which actually completes the original TOS series. They are completing the 5-year mission, and when the mission is over, it will tie in to the TNG canon and end. They are at Season 4, episode 8. Excellent writing, decent production.

http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/

Star Wars canon, for most people, is whatever is audio/visual. This means all the movies, The Clone Wars, the official novels.

 

[Joelist]

Frankly, I am glad we dont have to see Jaina, Jacen and Anakin Solo. I managed to acquire the first few books of The New Jedi Order, and I am not impressed. I can understand why Disney was forced to jettison the EU of Star Wars. Keeping all of the events of NJO would limit, perhaps even choke creativity from the writers. Nobody asked those fans to write the books and take the story where they wanted. Isnt that what Brad Wright did with Stargate? I guarantee you that Emmerich will declare all of Brad Wright's series of Stargate to be non-canon.

And if and when Emmerich does so it will be the right call. I liked SG-1 and SGA but really even discarding the turd known as SGU the story was played out. Once Earth inherited the legacy of the Asgard the narrative really was completed.

 

[Overmind One]

And if and when Emmerich does so it will be the right call. I liked SG-1 and SGA but really even discarding the turd known as SGU the story was played out. Once Earth inherited the legacy of the Asgard the narrative really was completed.

Yep, and Emmerich said he was not taking the story in that direction. I want to see what happens next, after the original Stargate movie, according to it's author and creators. This next Star Wars movie is very important for Disney and it is meant to be a starting point for an entire new and well-funded franchise. They will not bend to fans or be told what to write in their new films. It is unfortunate for those who have invested so much in the EU lore, and it is even more unfortunate that the relationship between fans and the producers of Star Wars has been a one way glass from day one.

 

[Gatefan1976]

GF, there are whole sites. I linked two threads as a small sample.

Really Star Trek in the past took a better approach to this type of material. They had "canon" and "non-canon" which they treated like an alternate universe. And that is what it sounds like Lucasfilm is doing now.

Lucas ALWAYS had that line, the EU was ALWAYS "fan canon" unless parts were used in the movies or TCW. that is not the source of fan rage. the fan rage comes from after 30 odd years of "official canon" ending, with the creators say so, (and in some cases blessing) the post ROTJ stories are getting the arse for no more than a Disney play for more money. This is not the same as SG however, DD&RE never got the choice to continue their gate, Lucas DECLINED to do it His story ended with the redemption of Anakin -by his own choice.

 

[shavedape]

I think if they have half a brain they will write a very simplistic movie that the average person can understand and enjoy. That's how the first movie was and that's why it was such a smash hit. The problems in the franchise evolved when the writers complicated things, adding such mind-numbing nonsense as senate hearings and votes and "Washington D.C. intrigue".

In many ways discerning, intelligent fans such as us are in the minority. Quite simply the average movie goer is not going to know jack shit about "canon" or obscure characters and obscure story lines from other media than the movies. Remember, SW ushered in the term "escapist fantasy" because that's how people described their experience with the original movies -- they got to "escape" from their boring, tedious, hum drum lives for a few hours. People don't want to have to think hence the success of the easy to understand formula that Lucas gave us in "A New Hope" (the original SW). And I'd hazard to guess that those millions of people who went to the original SW trilogy did so because those flicks were easy to understand and didn't have a ton of obscure minutia added in.

Of course since we're all smarter than the average bear we would like something that challenges us intellectually and plays to the extended SW universes that we know from other media. But we have to be realistic and accept that the producers might (justifiably) be going for a dumbed down simplicity in terms of story and characters. I know I would if I was the one put in charge of cranking out the next couple movies in the series. After all, there are only so many Sheldon Coopers out there and the profitable thing to do would be to try to appeal to everyone, not just the hardcore fans.

 

[Joelist]

I've been poking around and am not seeing any real fan rage out there. If anything, the tone seems to be more "it had to be done" than any sort of rage. Even people expressing some disappointment (usually over Knights of the Old Republic not being canon) also point out that a lot of the SW:EU material was junk.

As to "dumbing down", I'm not sure that is what the aim is.

One of the many big problems the prequels had (and indeed the core problem) was they were badly, badly written. The stories were not just unnecessarily complicated but illogical to boot and were incoherent nonsense. Which brings us to The Clone Wars CGI series, which seemed to have as a prime objective trying to patch up at least some of the gaping plot holes in the prequels.

Back to dumbing down. I don't think they necessarily plan to make a simpleton film. After all Kasdan wrote The Empire Strikes Back which was not exactly a simple minded film. What it did do was have a limited number of story lines running (2) and keep everything focused properly on them so that those two could be developed in better detail.

 

[Overmind One]

Lucas ALWAYS had that line, the EU was ALWAYS "fan canon" unless parts were used in the movies or TCW. that is not the source of fan rage. the fan rage comes from after 30 odd years of "official canon" ending, with the creators say so, (and in some cases blessing) the post ROTJ stories are getting the arse for no more than a Disney play for more money. This is not the same as SG however, DD&RE never got the choice to continue their gate, Lucas DECLINED to do it His story ended with the redemption of Anakin -by his own choice.

Which leads to question numero uno - why was The Clone Wars kept?

Probably for two reasons:

a) It has had more distribution than the games and books

b) It was basically made in an attempt to make the prequels make at least a small modicum of sense. Remove it and the prequels are back to being total gibberish.

So remove Clone Wars and basically you have to remove the prequels........now THAT would have been an interesting idea....

I would have to say it is because of these reasons:

• It is popular...very popular as animated shows go.
• It was written and conceived by Lucasfilm.
• It filled in the blanks created by the prequels (your reason) and gave them some substance.
• It cost millions and millions of dollars to produce and has major re-broadcast value.
• The prequels are not going to ever be declared non-canon.

The EU stories are fan created for the most part. But the games and other stuff Star Wars allowed to be officially licensed represent sidelines. There are many Star Wars fans who include all the cutscenes in the games, every character in the fan made books, and count the events in a timeline they created themselves. Lucasfilm did borrow from the EU for TCW (evidently), but he did not integrate it whole cloth. I dont blame him. I really find the "Solo Kids" to be lame, and I dont like the storylines created in The New Jedi Order. But perhaps I should have stated with a different set of books?

 

[shavedape]

I've been poking around and am not seeing any real fan rage out there. If anything, the tone seems to be more "it had to be done" than any sort of rage. Even people expressing some disappointment (usually over Knights of the Old Republic not being canon) also point out that a lot of the SW:EU material was junk.

As to "dumbing down", I'm not sure that is what the aim is.

One of the many big problems the prequels had (and indeed the core problem) was they were badly, badly written. The stories were not just unnecessarily complicated but illogical to boot and were incoherent nonsense. Which brings us to The Clone Wars CGI series, which seemed to have as a prime objective trying to patch up at least some of the gaping plot holes in the prequels.

Back to dumbing down. I don't think they necessarily plan to make a simpleton film. After all Kasdan wrote The Empire Strikes Back which was not exactly a simple minded film. What it did do was have a limited number of story lines running (2) and keep everything focused properly on them so that those two could be developed in better detail.

Perhaps "dumbed down" wasn't the right term but basically you got what I meant. The original movie (IV) wasn't "dumb" but it was simplistic enough that the average person could suss out what was going on without a lot of mental effort. And Empire and RoTJ were still fairly straight forward. But the prequels were loaded with crap that was just tedious and confusing (not unlike many of my posts on this forum over the years ).

So basically what I'm saying is that they should go back to the style of the original trilogy using an easy to understand action/adventure story line. No need to complicate it with a lot of things from other SW media that was written in the interim; cartoons, books, etc. Now if they can take some of those elements and write them in where they are easily understood then that would be fine. But, again, no need to overly complicate the story, that's all I'm saying.

 

[Gatefan1976]

I think if they have half a brain they will write a very simplistic movie that the average person can understand and enjoy. That's how the first movie was and that's why it was such a smash hit. The problems in the franchise evolved when the writers complicated things, adding such mind-numbing nonsense as senate hearings and votes and "Washington D.C. intrigue".

SW worked so well for the exact same reason that movies of the silver and golden age of Hollywood still work today, they are sweeping EPIC's. They don't concentrate on the fate of the rebels and their individual problems, but on their overall struggle against a galactic EMPIRE. Nothing is small scale, everything is grand and huge. Why blow up the rebel base when you can blow up the entire PLANET. SW is an epic story, and not only an epic, a familiar story to us in many ways. SW1 however was almost the total opposite of this, it was the "fate of a planet" or the "fate of a slave"

In many ways discerning, intelligent fans such as us are in the minority. Quite simply the average movie goer is not going to know jack shit about "canon" or obscure characters and obscure story lines from other media than the movies. Remember, SW ushered in the term "escapist fantasy" because that's how people described their experience with the original movies -- they got to "escape" from their boring, tedious, hum drum lives for a few hours. People don't want to have to think hence the success of the easy to understand formula that Lucas gave us in "A New Hope" (the original SW). And I'd hazard to guess that those millions of people who went to the original SW trilogy did so because those flicks were easy to understand and didn't have a ton of obscure minutia added in.

Escapism had been around for quite awhile befor SW got made dude, You are better of looking to the 30's & 40's era of Weird tales and the Pulp fiction era, or you could go further back to the penny dreadful romance novels.

Of course since we're all smarter than the average bear we would like something that challenges us intellectually and plays to the extended SW universes that we know from other media. But we have to be realistic and accept that the producers might (justifiably) be going for a dumbed down simplicity in terms of story and characters. I know I would if I was the one put in charge of cranking out the next couple movies in the series. After all, there are only so many Sheldon Coopers out there and the profitable thing to do would be to try to appeal to everyone, not just the hardcore fans.

You would make them epic space opera's, which is exactly what ep's 4-6 were. Galaxy spanning stories of heroic deeds and the struggle of good verses evil. There were no "grey characters" in SW, Han was a smuggler, but there was no doubt he was a good guy. Boba Fett was Bounty Hunter, but there was no doubt he was a bad guy. The very simplicity of SW and it's themes and tropes are what make it enduring, and the scope of the action is what makes it an epic.

 

[YJ02]

View attachment 29855

But what really gets my goat is this:

View attachment 29856

He looks like Obama in this picture (its the ears)

Was he active duty?

 

[YJ02]

Yes, it was Disney, hence I have had no Ire towards JJ based on that decision.

Examples please.


Agreed

If they did not have their collective head up their Arse, thinking that the "average movie goer" gives a TOSS about having the original characters in it, they would have avoided the mess. Rather simple really. Instead, they have shifted the timeline to reflect the age of the Original actors. No one had to make any such call whatsoever.


I am heavily torn here. If the knobs who want to blow the EU canon away go back and choose to draw on the EU canon, then the original writers should donkey punch them in the nuts. I am sure Lucas and now Disney have set legal rulings in place to prevent such things, but If I see a Mara Jade, a Suncrusher, Maw Installation, Yuuzan Vong, countless planets described in the EU and a DAMN THING from those 30 odd years I would want the EU creators to have legal recourse to sue the everliving crap out of Disney. Very creative people, people with more creativity the George Lucas KEPT Star wars ALIVE and vibrant and RELAVENT in the minds of not just people who saw SW 4-6, but those who became enamoured with that galaxy and wanted more out of it.
On the other hand, I don't want to see all that creativity just go tit's up because someone wants to be a douchebag.

Not to mention all of the licensed goods sold and profits to lucas--action figures, video games, lego's, halloween costumes, etc, etc

So if it is not canon-wouldn't it be fun to see a toy company sell action figures based on the EU without Disney/Lucas permission? I mean what could they say now that they have disowned the EU?

 

[Gatefan1976]

 

[YJ02]

I don't think I'll ever get over the casting of Adam Driver in these new flicks. The dude is just f------ gross! The character he plays in Girls is a loser POS and I get the vibe that he isn't acting the part so much as simply living it.

Dude is gross, just gross. The only reason I'd get near him with a ten-foot pole would be to beat him with it, the nasty freak!

I just remembered that this dirt bag reminds me of this dirt bag

 

[shavedape]

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/22/5...wards-reportedly-signs-on-for-star-wars-movie

New 'Star Wars' film coming December 2016 from the director of 'Godzilla'

With newly-minted blockbuster Godzilla under his belt, director Gareth Edwards will helm the first of several standalone Star Wars films coming in the years ahead. Disney and Lucasfilm have announced that the film will be released on December 16th, 2016, a year after J.J. Abrams' Star Wars: Episode VII hits theaters. The subject of the new movie hasn't been formally announced, though Disney has previously stated that the standalone films will be origin stories, with everyone from Yoda, Boba Fett, to Han Solo thrown around as possible candidates. Gary Whitta (After Earth, Book of Eli) will be writing the first film.

Disney has seemed to demonstrate a keen awareness of the Star Wars fatigue many fans felt in the wake of the prequel films, and while the notion of annual standalone films is itself a reason for some concern, putting directors like Edwards behind the camera will go a long way towards ensuring the films are more than just a series of empty cash grabs.

 

[Joelist]

Not a bad move by them. Edwards is a talented up and comer. Godzilla did a LOT right and the stuff that did not work is likely just inexperience. By the time he starts working Star Wars he will have more studio film experience under his belt.