Sanctuary General Discussion Thread

[Gatefan1976]

Between you guys and snookie I am going to have to give this show a try! Snookie loves it and couldn't wait to tell me about AT's nod to Harry Potter when another character (I think it was Tesla) complained about being a house elf and Magnus said thanks dobby as she walked away. sounded like the type of fun scene you had in sg1 and sga.

YOU MUST WATCH SANCUTUARY

WATCH SANCTUARY......

SANCTUARY........

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[Joelist]

Tesla just plays well off everyone. That episode last season about the teen vampires completely hinged on him - if anyone else had been the centre of that episode it wouldn't have been half as good. These writers have been pretty amazing at making the five (and adam) compelling characters though, I was fairly gutted when Watson didn't make it back in Season 1.

And yeh I guess Kate wasn't in it to save money and Chris was off playing Druitt. Shame really but I don't think she would have featured all that heavily anyway.

They've had Druitt and the Big Guy on at the same time before, but it is rare as not only does it take a fair amount of fancy camera work but it is a big workload on Chris (as he plays both characters).

I thought the scene with Helen and John in Bangkok was well done, especially when she napped with him while he was coming out of the drug induced stupor. There is still a bond between them.

 

[Illiterati]

They've had Druitt and the Big Guy on at the same time before, but it is rare as not only does it take a fair amount of fancy camera work but it is a big workload on Chris (as he plays both characters).

I thought the scene with Helen and John in Bangkok was well done, especially when she napped with him while he was coming out of the drug induced stupor. There is still a bond between them.

She did indeed look very comfortable next to him, considering the circumstance.

It was very touching, and there were awwws and not a few sniffles watching that scene.

As for playing both in single episode...can you imagine when he has to show up in the morning for makeup? Chris Heyerdahl's got a full(ish) head of hair on him.

 

[SexyDexy]

I'm so glad they didn't kill off Adam (yet)!

At the end of the episode before last - my one hope was that Adam wouldn't die! (He looked to be on death's door when Magnus dragged him out of the building). So I was jumping for joy when he showed up this episode. I really hope he becomes recurring too - he's awesome!

I think it is a combination of good writing and good acting that makes these episodes so good. The writing is really key to an episode like last week's for sure - with mostly just two people in a building - to maintain the tension and pacing throughout an episode like that is difficult - so the writing has to be solid.

The way they revealed the backstory in this episode was very well done - they showed us RELEVANT flashbacks that revealed character relationships, plot, and most importantly made us care about the new character, and added more layers of depth to the characters we already know.

They really scared me when Helen was napping with Druitt - I thought maybe he was dead and she was saying good-bye or something! So glad he's still alive and maybe one day he will be free of that evil energy being so he and Magnus can be together -- oooh that's drama with non-square-jawed heroes - good drama! Go Sanctuary!! Can't wait for the next episode!

 

[Joelist]

Sanctuary did a 1.48 last week, .4 18-49.

It appears to hold very well in that 1.45 to 1.50 range. And last year holding in a 1.30 got it a renewal.

 

[THX1138]

Sanctuary did a 1.48 last week, .4 18-49.

It appears to hold very well in that 1.45 to 1.50 range. And last year holding in a 1.30 got it a renewal.

Yeah Sanctuary is looking good for a renewal though I'm not sure where you are getting your figures from.
The average in S2 when a Syfy renewal was announced was 1,570,000 total viewers with the average for all of S2 ended up 1,533,583. S3 average is currently at 1,461,375.

 

[Overmind One]

Still, its so much cheaper to make than most other shows. It could easily run for 10 years.

Sanctuary did a 1.48 last week, .4 18-49.

It appears to hold very well in that 1.45 to 1.50 range. And last year holding in a 1.30 got it a renewal.

Yeah Sanctuary is looking good for a renewal though I'm not sure where you are getting your figures from.
The average in S2 when a Syfy renewal was announced was 1,570,000 total viewers with the average for all of S2 ended up 1,533,583. S3 average is currently at 1,461,375.

Its so easy to make Sanctuary with green screen, the show must be making a TON for Syfy. At the current production values, it could easily run 10 years IMO

 

[THX1138]

Its so easy to make Sanctuary with green screen, the show must be making a TON for Syfy. At the current production values, it could easily run 10 years IMO

No, CGI is still expensive. If you've ever listened to the producers then you will hear them say that CGI does not save them money, it just moves cost from one item (building physical sets) to another but it allows them to go places that would be impossible for location shooting. Apparently Sanctuary costs about two thirds of what Caprica or SGU cost to produce.

How much money it is making for Syfy depends on how much the license fee costs them, Syfy do not produce the show.

 

[Joelist]

I got the 1.3ish number from TV by the Numbers. It is where Sanctuary stabilized for a lot of last season. True the finale spiked to 1.49, but I have been trying to err on the low side.

Budget wise remember that Sanctuary does not come from a studio. The overhead is very low as Amanda Tapping and Damien Kindler are not just showrunners but also investors. Each season is financed "a la carte", leading to a low license fee (probably closer to half that of SGU rather than 2/3s).

Of course GateWorld forum posters were at one time trying to claim SGU was inexpensive too.

Thanks for more accurate numbers. I wonder, can we do a chart for Sanctuary a la SGUs?

 

[Gatefan1976]

Re: greenscreens/CGI

I think the only "problem" here is people being a bit lax with thier definitions. To me (as a absolute uninformed numpty), Greenscreens being used to add objects to stock footage is very cheap and anyone with the right program/equipment can do it. Building an actual CGI construct to use as your "stock footage" however is still quite expensive.
Is this right?

 

[Overmind One]

YES. That is right.

I think the only "problem" here is people being a bit lax with thier definitions. To me (as a absolute uninformed numpty), Greenscreens being used to add objects to stock footage is very cheap and anyone with the right program/equipment can do it. Building an actual CGI construct to use as your "stock footage" however is still quite expensive.
Is this right?

The CGI backfootage is expensive in man-hours. But lots of it is already canned, like all the Sanctuary interiors and exteriors, many of the creatures, all of the static sets they have created are already paid for. Each year, they have access to a whole new library of models and forms they can use over and over if need be, and STILL come in for much less than SGU.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Hmm

The CGI backfootage is expensive in man-hours. But lots of it is already canned, like all the Sanctuary interiors and exteriors, many of the creatures, all of the static sets they have created are already paid for. Each year, they have access to a whole new library of models and forms they can use over and over if need be, and STILL come in for much less than SGU.

I don't know if it's "cheaper" per se, but I would say it gives the "studio" alot more interesting options to work with. Actual "sets" still look better imo, but cost alot to build/develop. GS/CGI gives you more umm, "flexability" in the long run and gives more control to the producers imo.
Gah, waffling now, did I get my point across?

 

[Joelist]

That depends on what the point you were working was.

The main point was that the entire Sanctuary operation from top to bottom is designed to be lean and to produce the show at the lowest possible per episode cost. That includes the extensive greenscreen usage because CGI can be economical when you create a backdrop once and can reuse it hundreds of times. That is where the scenes inside the Sanctuary itself come in - they are all CGI done back before Season 1 and still reused now.

Remember the whole point of the unique model used by Sanctuary for production and financing is to drive the licensing fee down while preserving a decent profit for the investors. The lower licensing fee makes the show easier to keep on the air as it is profitable at lower viewership levels than other shows might be.

SGU by contrast is a big studio production with all the usual expenses and bigger budget CGI, cast salaries, larger production teams, fixed sets and so on. Hence MGM has to charge a higher license fee to break even/make profit on the show which means SyFy needs higher ratings (definitely higher than a 1.0) to make the license fee back.

 

[THX1138]

That depends on what the point you were working was.

The main point was that the entire Sanctuary operation from top to bottom is designed to be lean and to produce the show at the lowest possible per episode cost. That includes the extensive greenscreen usage because CGI can be economical when you create a backdrop once and can reuse it hundreds of times. That is where the scenes inside the Sanctuary itself come in - they are all CGI done back before Season 1 and still reused now.

Remember the whole point of the unique model used by Sanctuary for production and financing is to drive the licensing fee down while preserving a decent profit for the investors. The lower licensing fee makes the show easier to keep on the air as it is profitable at lower viewership levels than other shows might be.

SGU by contrast is a big studio production with all the usual expenses and bigger budget CGI, cast salaries, larger production teams, fixed sets and so on. Hence MGM has to charge a higher license fee to break even/make profit on the show which means SyFy needs higher ratings (definitely higher than a 1.0) to make the license fee back.

Dude you are drawing conclusions that aren't correct. Sanctuary has a lean and tight budget because they are independently financed and have to fight to raise the funds every year. They simply make do with what they can raise.

What you have said is true but it is a consequence of the independent funding not because it was the model they used.

Seriously how much do you think it costs per episode to produce? I'm asking because you are using relative terms that may mean different things to different people, what dollar amount would you assign to a cheap per episode budget? 1 million per episode, 1.5 million, 2 million or something else? 2 million is what supposedly SGA cost in it's last season, is that cheap?

 

[Joelist]

Actually no I'm not drawing incorrect conclusions. Go back to what Tapping and Kindler spoke about when Sanctuary was first made both as web and as TV, the whole point was their using a new model for making series that was not studio dependent and was focused on being economical. It had to be because they have a great deal of their own money invested in it, and they took a loss for Season 1 by giving SyFy a license fee rate 1/3 what they typically pay (per Reuters).A private investor stepped up and covered the difference. Apparently the license fees for the next 2 seasons have been higher but still are well below par for SyFy. Wired states Sanctuary runs about half the cost of Eureka on a per episode basis.

The model is different from how they did the webisodes because they took a fiscal bath on the webisodes due to their being too easily viewed for free (the original plan was subscription but along came the pirates).

And yes, it does mean (as I previously posted) that they need to amass funding for each season on its own.

 

[THX1138]

Actually no I'm not drawing incorrect conclusions. Go back to what Tapping and Kindler spoke about when Sanctuary was first made both as web and as TV, the whole point was their using a new model for making series that was not studio dependent and was focused on being economical. It had to be because they have a great deal of their own money invested in it, and they took a loss for Season 1 by giving SyFy a license fee rate 1/3 what they typically pay (per Reuters).A private investor stepped up and covered the difference. Apparently the license fees for the next 2 seasons have been higher but still are well below par for SyFy. Wired states Sanctuary runs about half the cost of Eureka on a per episode basis.

The model is different from how they did the webisodes because they took a fiscal bath on the webisodes due to their being too easily viewed for free (the original plan was subscription but along came the pirates).

And yes, it does mean (as I previously posted) that they need to amass funding for each season on its own.

I still think you are drawing conclusions not warranted from things reported. Sanctuary is not made solely for Syfy and so the taking a loss because of the low Syfy fee rings a bit false, most shows do not show a profit in the first season anyway. Interesting about what you say Wired says, when was this? I ask because Damian just very recently said that Sanctuary costs about two thirds of what Caprica or SGU costs.

But besides all this are you going to answer my question about defining what you consider cheap?

 

[Joelist]

There's really no fixed way to define "cheap", especially when most of what we hear about cost is expressed in terms of "show A costs X percent of the cost of show B".

For want of a better definition, cheap could be expressed as "costs less than a comparable (interms of cast size, concept and such) show while still being profitable for its producers". But again that definition is open to refinement.

 

[I Miss Fri Night SCIFI]

Tesla, Tesla, Tesla! I take back what I said, I don’t ever want Tesla to become a vampire again. Because a re-vamped Tesla is not going to hang around the Sanctuary, and we’d be robbed of scenes like Tesla using his powers to open the FBI agent buttons. Or Tesla calling the Big Guy and Kate ‘Brawny and Marie’. Or his calling Henry, our young Heinrich (which is eons better than Hank). Or his pep talk to Will over a glass of wine. He is officially now my favorite Sanctuary character!!!

Nice to see more of Druitt. This episode actually gave everyone a bit of showcase. Not sure what to make of the FBI story - I’m assuming she’s dirty and that will come back to bite them later, but it just felt out of place and rushed. The same for the priest wrap-up , it was a little awkward. It seemed like this storyline was being setup for something bigger and it just fizzled out.

And I’m especially not happy about the mid-season break JUST as they get to the city, but I guess all good things…

 

[I Miss Fri Night SCIFI]

Sanctuary marathon on Chiller

I didn't know they showed repeats of Sanctuary on Chiller, let alone episodes from the current season. It appears it's a backward marathon, though. I'm watching For King & Country now and it seems the marathon will end with Kali.

Either way, I'm glad more people, maybe some who may not get the SciFi channel, will be able to see it!

 

[SexyDexy]

Not sure what to make of the FBI story - I’m assuming she’s dirty and that will come back to bite them later, but it just felt out of place and rushed. The same for the priest wrap-up , it was a little awkward. It seemed like this storyline was being setup for something bigger and it just fizzled out.

Yeah...I couldn't figure out if the FBI lady was dirty or if they were setting her up as a new love interest for Will plus a possible recurring character. I'm leaning more towards the new love interest angle, because of how she said the "your safe now" line to the Big Guy, which was exactly what the nice priest said to him back in the day - so I think they were trying to show she is a good person. But it did seem suspicious how she just came out of nowhere and how Will didn't remember who she was - if he'd really had classes with her at Quantico, I think he would have remembered - isn't he supposed to have a good memory?

I agree the priest wrap-up thing was a letdown - the way they set evil-fake-priest up as an evil villain in the other episode had seemed more deserving of a multiple episode arc than just a quick, not-so-difficult take down - I was expecting him to be a real threat, at least to show up in like 2 or 3 more episodes - not just 10 minutes at the end of an episode and not even really as the A-plot - the A-plot seeming (to me at least) to be more about the keystone and Will's being temporary head honcho or the Sanctuary.