Mallozzi's Mailbag & More II

[mzzz]

I don't know shavedape, don't think the format change to an SG1/SGA style would have mattered. I think it was the characters that drove people away. I mean, I love SG1 and SGA, but even I'm willing to acknowledge they didn't have truly spectacular story-telling. But I kept coming back for the characters and cared about their adventures and moments of triumph.

With SGU, they tried to sell the show on its brilliant story and characters. But they don't devote almost anything to their 'story' and just focus on their characters. I mean just this episode, what time did they devote to the overall story? Not a lick, but we did find out about who hooked up with who :rolling eyes emoticon thingie:. I don't think I speak for myself when I say the characters were pretty unlikable. And I don't think drama is telling your commanding officer that you had an affair with that you're pregnant, finding out from the stripper you once had sex with that you have a kid, that your friend is being 'friendly' with your wife, then having sex with your 'wife' in your friend's body, etc. I think drama is more deeper than that kind. Sgu to me was more 'melodrama'.

 

[Rac80]

awwww someone likes me!

But, you are the true queen.

aw you're gonna make me blush!

I don't know shavedape, don't think the format change to an SG1/SGA style would have mattered. I think it was the characters that drove people away. I mean, I love SG1 and SGA, but even I'm willing to acknowledge they didn't have truly spectacular story-telling. But I kept coming back for the characters and cared about their adventures and moments of triumph.

With SGU, they tried to sell the show on its brilliant story and characters. But they don't devote almost anything to their 'story' and just focus on their characters. I mean just this episode, what time did they devote to the overall story? Not a lick, but we did find out about who hooked up with who :rolling eyes emoticon thingie:. I don't think I speak for myself when I say the characters were pretty unlikable. And I don't think drama is telling your commanding officer that you had an affair with that you're pregnant, finding out from the stripper you once had sex with that you have a kid, that your friend is being 'friendly' with your wife, then having sex with your 'wife' in your friend's body, etc. I think drama is more deeper than that kind. Sgu to me was more 'melodrama'.

the melodrama in sgu descended to the level of soaps to me! And many of the soaps were better written and acted than sgu! merely IMHO of course!

 

[Overmind One]

Wow...that was very well put!

I don't know shavedape, don't think the format change to an SG1/SGA style would have mattered. I think it was the characters that drove people away. I mean, I love SG1 and SGA, but even I'm willing to acknowledge they didn't have truly spectacular story-telling. But I kept coming back for the characters and cared about their adventures and moments of triumph.

With SGU, they tried to sell the show on its brilliant story and characters. But they don't devote almost anything to their 'story' and just focus on their characters. I mean just this episode, what time did they devote to the overall story? Not a lick, but we did find out about who hooked up with who :rolling eyes emoticon thingie:. I don't think I speak for myself when I say the characters were pretty unlikable. And I don't think drama is telling your commanding officer that you had an affair with that you're pregnant, finding out from the stripper you once had sex with that you have a kid, that your friend is being 'friendly' with your wife, then having sex with your 'wife' in your friend's body, etc. I think drama is more deeper than that kind. Sgu to me was more 'melodrama'.

Wow, that message said it all! Its so true how you put it....

The showrunners THEMSELVES have said what their shows really were. I have posted direct quotes from both Brad and Ronald D Moore in which that say clearly that neither Stargate Universe or Caprica were intended to be science fiction, but serialized character dramas (soap operas). RDM specifically used the term "Primetime Soap" to describe Caprica. But there are squees who claim Caprica was science fiction...funny, since the writer himself says its a soap opera. :roll:

You are right about the melodrama. You can even take the stripper story with the kid and make it work if you have a character onboard who was an ex heroin addict who met the stripper and found out he had a kid by her after he cleaned his life up. But we are dealing with a young man raised by a Catholic priest and who joined the military and became part of a top secret project. Not a very effective priest, eh? You can have the cheating wife scenario and the competing female interest in the story, but not when it involves the Commanding Officer of the mission and a female military officer like TJ. For instance, Brody and an estranged wife cheating with a college student would have made more sense. The baby thing and the Eden planet would have made more sense using a C-character (one of the 80 people on the ship that we never saw), and not TJ. I personally wouldnt want somebody who thinks like TJ to operate on me or provide medical assistance.

The characters were miscast too. After watching their natural acting ability, I think that the actors should have been shuffled to make them more closely match their parts. LDP and Carlyle had better acting chemistry IMO. LDP should have had Young's role, and Ferreria could have taken the Telford role.

 

[shavedape]

I don't know shavedape, don't think the format change to an SG1/SGA style would have mattered. I think it was the characters that drove people away. I mean, I love SG1 and SGA, but even I'm willing to acknowledge they didn't have truly spectacular story-telling. But I kept coming back for the characters and cared about their adventures and moments of triumph.

I don't think we really disagree here rather, I think there's just a minor misunderstanding. To clarify, had SGU been in the style of SG-1/SGA then the characters would have been of that style too. You couldn't have the current SGU characters populating that type of format, it just wouldn't work. The style informs the characters and to change the style is to change the characters.

And yes, I agree whole heartedly regarding the appeal of characters. The characters we like (or dislike) exist within the style of whatever show it is we're interested in though. Again, change the style and you change the likability of the character. For instance, I can't see John Sheppard having emotion-driven conversation after emotion-driven conversation regarding the women he is sleeping with on Atlantis. I can see him picking up a gun and going to shoot some Wraith. If he has a dalliance along the way that's incidental and isn't generally wrung out for every melodramatic drop that can be had. That's the difference in style I'm talking about.

With SGU, they tried to sell the show on its brilliant story and characters. But they don't devote almost anything to their 'story' and just focus on their characters. I mean just this episode, what time did they devote to the overall story? Not a lick, but we did find out about who hooked up with who :rolling eyes emoticon thingie:. I don't think I speak for myself when I say the characters were pretty unlikable. And I don't think drama is telling your commanding officer that you had an affair with that you're pregnant, finding out from the stripper you once had sex with that you have a kid, that your friend is being 'friendly' with your wife, then having sex with your 'wife' in your friend's body, etc. I think drama is more deeper than that kind. Sgu to me was more 'melodrama'.

Again, I don't think we disagree here at all. The "story" (if there is one) was a vehicle for melodramatic characters, which is what killed the show. As you said SGU was melodrama, which is a style. JM stated quite clearly in his blog that they eschewed returning to the style of SG-1 or SGA (action/adventure) and chose to continue using the melodramatic, character-driven style they had started SGU with. My point is had they focused on a proven successful style then the characters would have been more appealing also.

Quite simply put, the characters from SGU wouldn't work in the format of SG-1/SGA. They would have to change due to the style of the setting they would be in.

 

[heisenberg]

What I was expecting from SGU was an expansion of the stargate franchise(take it to the next level) rather than feeling a standalone show(which is what stargate universe felt like). The universe is an endless region with limitless possibilities.

 

[shavedape]

What I was expecting from SGU was an expansion of the stargate franchise(take it to the next level) rather than feeling a standalone show(which is what stargate universe felt like). The universe is an endless region with limitless possibilities.

I'm with you. I expected something spectacular, something groundbreaking and new. What I got though was a hackneyed, derivative, cliched rip-off of tired concepts and characters that have been done before, and done much better. It's bad enough there was nothing new conceptually in the show but additionally SGU offered nothing in the way of improving on what had come before it.

 

[mzzz]

Ok, so I read up on CBM. I don't get what they were getting at with their 'story'. There was a message in the cosmic background radiation? Why the need to travel around the universe in the first place? The CBM is uniform all throughout the galaxy. They could be anywhere in the universe and study it because it's the same all throughout the universe. This stuff was not around in the beginning of the big bang but some time into the big bang. So doesn't really prove that the aliens responsible for the message in the CBM created the big bang.

 

[Overmind One]

Ok, so I read up on CBM. I don't get what they were getting at with their 'story'. There was a message in the cosmic background radiation? Why the need to travel around the universe in the first place? The CBM is uniform all throughout the galaxy. They could be anywhere in the universe and study it because it's the same all throughout the universe. This stuff was not around in the beginning of the big bang but some time into the big bang. So doesn't really prove that the aliens responsible for the message in the CBM created the big bang.

EXACTLY.

 

[Terran77]

Ok, so I read up on CBM. I don't get what they were getting at with their 'story'. There was a message in the cosmic background radiation? Why the need to travel around the universe in the first place? The CBM is uniform all throughout the galaxy. They could be anywhere in the universe and study it because it's the same all throughout the universe. This stuff was not around in the beginning of the big bang but some time into the big bang. So doesn't really prove that the aliens responsible for the message in the CBM created the big bang.

Yeah, it makes no sense whatsoever. Then again, they've left it incredibly super-vague as well, so really we don't know what the Destiny is headed for or why it and the seed ships are planting all these gates.

 

[heisenberg]

On the production front, Paul and I were busy as hell. We would follow an inaugural season, that saw us write seven scripts, with another seven script season. And, when we weren’t writing or producing, we were checking out Gateworld which was fast becoming THE one stop shop for everything Stargate. In fact, Gateworld was so impressive in its scope and detail that we eventually abandoned updating the show’s massive bible (which, we joked, was longer than the actual Bible) in favor of directing prospective freelancers to the site. It blew all other Stargate-related sites, even the studio’s which paled by comparison. Over the years, Gateworld evolved alongside the franchise, growing and improving. In later years, I would roll my eyes and fans on other forums would accuse Darren and David – “the Gateworld guys” as we called them – of simply being a PR arm of the franchise. The truth is, as incredible as they’ve been in the amount of support they’ve shown, there have also been incidences in which we’ve strongly disagreed with some of the decisions they’ve taken. Nothing that couldn’t be talked through but, still, enough to remind everyone that Gateworld was and would remain a strong and independent online entity. And, hopefully, even with Stargate as we know it coming to its premature end, Gateworld will continue to thrive and do what it does best: offer a forum where Stargate fans can socialize and express their opinions/praise/critique in a positive community.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com...-sg-1-season-five-memories-the-refuel-update/

 

[Tropicana]

I love how he tries to give GW a shout out while totally, neglecting the tactics of silencing those that criticised SGU on GW - so clearly a PR arm, though he did acknowledge (in his own subtle way) that it isn't just us that have labelled GW as a PR arm, but many others have. What can one say? Whatever dude, I will predict this, GW will fade into cybernetic oblivion. 5 years from now, you wouldn't give a damn about GW and traffic to that site will drop. You know what GW will look like in the future? The StarTrek.com Forums, where all you have are some strange people on it, with nothing worthy to talk about.

 

[Mr. A]

On the production front, Paul and I were busy as hell. We would follow an inaugural season, that saw us write seven scripts, with another seven script season. And, when we weren’t writing or producing, we were checking out Gateworld which was fast becoming THE one stop shop for everything Stargate. In fact, Gateworld was so impressive in its scope and detail that we eventually abandoned updating the show’s massive bible (which, we joked, was longer than the actual Bible) in favor of directing prospective freelancers to the site. It blew all other Stargate-related sites, even the studio’s which paled by comparison. Over the years, Gateworld evolved alongside the franchise, growing and improving. In later years, I would roll my eyes and fans on other forums would accuse Darren and David – “the Gateworld guys” as we called them – of simply being a PR arm of the franchise. The truth is, as incredible as they’ve been in the amount of support they’ve shown, there have also been incidences in which we’ve strongly disagreed with some of the decisions they’ve taken. Nothing that couldn’t be talked through but, still, enough to remind everyone that Gateworld was and would remain a strong and independent online entity. And, hopefully, even with Stargate as we know it coming to its premature end, Gateworld will continue to thrive and do what it does best: offer a forum where Stargate fans can socialize and express their opinions/praise/critique in a positive community.

Oh, please stop it, it hurts! I can't laugh anymore, please...

 

[shavedape]

On the production front, Paul and I were busy as hell. We would follow an inaugural season, that saw us write seven scripts, with another seven script season. And, when we weren’t writing or producing, we were checking out Gateworld which was fast becoming THE one stop shop for everything Stargate. In fact, Gateworld was so impressive in its scope and detail that we eventually abandoned updating the show’s massive bible (which, we joked, was longer than the actual Bible) in favor of directing prospective freelancers to the site. It blew all other Stargate-related sites, even the studio’s which paled by comparison. Over the years, Gateworld evolved alongside the franchise, growing and improving. In later years, I would roll my eyes and fans on other forums would accuse Darren and David – “the Gateworld guys” as we called them – of simply being a PR arm of the franchise. The truth is, as incredible as they’ve been in the amount of support they’ve shown, there have also been incidences in which we’ve strongly disagreed with some of the decisions they’ve taken. Nothing that couldn’t be talked through but, still, enough to remind everyone that Gateworld was and would remain a strong and independent online entity. And, hopefully, even with Stargate as we know it coming to its premature end, Gateworld will continue to thrive and do what it does best: offer a forum where Stargate fans can socialize and express their opinions/praise/critique in a positive community.

 

[Overmind One]

Wha? Does he think we are that stupid?

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com...-sg-1-season-five-memories-the-refuel-update/

On the production front, Paul and I were busy as hell. We would follow an inaugural season, that saw us write seven scripts, with another seven script season. And, when we weren’t writing or producing, we were checking out Gateworld which was fast becoming THE one stop shop for everything Stargate. In fact, Gateworld was so impressive in its scope and detail that we eventually abandoned updating the show’s massive bible (which, we joked, was longer than the actual Bible) in favor of directing prospective freelancers to the site. It blew all other Stargate-related sites, even the studio’s which paled by comparison. Over the years, Gateworld evolved alongside the franchise, growing and improving. In later years, I would roll my eyes and fans on other forums would accuse Darren and David – “the Gateworld guys” as we called them – of simply being a PR arm of the franchise. The truth is, as incredible as they’ve been in the amount of support they’ve shown, there have also been incidences in which we’ve strongly disagreed with some of the decisions they’ve taken. Nothing that couldn’t be talked through but, still, enough to remind everyone that Gateworld was and would remain a strong and independent online entity. And, hopefully, even with Stargate as we know it coming to its premature end, Gateworld will continue to thrive and do what it does best: offer a forum where Stargate fans can socialize and express their opinions/praise/critique in a positive community.

OMG, if Gateworld isnt/wasnt a PR arm of the franchise, then what was it? How many times did we read about Darren and David's trips up to Vancouver to be on the sets, and how many exclusives and interviews did they get? Just how many PR gifts did they receive over the years in the way of DVD sets and promotional items? CMON! They are nothing more than the orphaned lapdogs of TPTW and they whine at night even when you leave a warm electric blanket with a ticking clock underneath it for them (nod to puppy owners). Now they have been shoved out into the howling winds, looking for a safe place amongst the broken shards of the Stargate franchise left behind by Brad and Mozz and Cooper.

Since when was Gateworld independent? LOL! They re-wrote their site policy and introduced one of the most draconian, totalitarian censorship policies I have ever seen on a fan website. Why does this last sendoff from Mozz to Gateworld seem like Star trek Voyager "The Gift Pt2" when Kes shoved Voyager 10 years closer to home with some super warp jump?

I hope they diversify, but after the whole SGU fiasco and what they did during those times...can they ever live it down?

 

[Tropicana]

This latest joint attempt by Mallozzi and GW's Darren Sumner to paint this faux image of sincerity and integrity is hilarious, especially when everybody out there knows GW is a PR arm, the length GW went to censor comments to give a false representation of the Stargate fanbase and her opinions which will always be unforgivable and unforgettable, and Mallozzi & Co. and their numerous times to get rid of anti-SGUers. End result - poetic justice has been served. What comes around, goes around.

GW did all it could to silence voices that are considered to be anti-SGU and of course, Mallozzi now has to give them a shout out - GW tried and failed. That's a clear indication that GW is a PR arm, the very act by which Mallozzi has mentioned GW to the extent, it's as clear as day.

 

[Overmind One]

This latest joint attempt by Mallozzi and GW's Darren Sumner to paint this faux image of sincerity and integrity is hilarious, especially when everybody out there knows GW is a PR arm, the length GW went to censor comments to give a false representation of the Stargate fanbase and her opinions which will always be unforgivable and unforgettable, and Mallozzi & Co. and their numerous times to get rid of anti-SGUers. End result - poetic justice has been served. What comes around, goes around.

GW did all it could to silence voices that are considered to be anti-SGU and of course, Mallozzi now has to give them a shout out - GW tried and failed. That's a clear indication that GW is a PR arm, the very act by which Mallozzi has mentioned GW to the extent, it's as clear as day.

Mallozzi's very first online blog was at Gateworld!

http://www.gateworld.net/blogs/jmallozzi/

And anyone trying to deny the solid connection to Mallozzi and the Stargate production staff would be hard pressed to discount this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_fandom

On June 9, 2006 Entertainment Weekly became the first major publication to recognize GateWorld.[15] The Province called GateWorld "amazingly detailed".[16] GateWorld was the winner of the 2007 SyFy Genre Awards for "Best Web Site".[17] It was also nominated in 2006.[18] The producers of the Stargate franchise are in good contact with GateWorld and have mentioned the website favorably in several audio commentaries. In 2004, Darren Sumner was invited to tour through the sets of Stargate Atlantis and to interview the members of the series' crew. Since then he and partner David Read make an annual pilgrimage to Vancouver, where the franchise is filmed, to visit the studio and interview the casts and crews of both shows for the Website. Producer Joseph Mallozzi stated in his blog:

"I have always been a supporter of Gateworld and consider it the premiere site for Stargate fans online. In fact, I was the one who suggested to MGM Marketing several years back, that they look toward establishing some sort of working relationship with Darren and GateWorld."
—Joseph Mallozzi's, weblog[19]
​

The fandom knows how things went down. Gateworld's jugular vein was its connection to Stargate Productions (aka Brad Wright's Stargate franchise). That is over and the jugular has been severed. If Gateworld is our guide to all things Stargate, just what does that mean now?

 

[heisenberg]

Al-most there! I hit the 54 page mark of my second script for Transporter: The Series today. I’ll take the night to think about the big showdown, then write it tomorrow along with the final scenes (surprise, goodbye, flashback, and SHOCK – in that order) after which I’ll be all done. On the first draft anyway. Paul continued work on his script for (what will now be episode 2). And Alexander…oh, he kept busy as well…

interesting editorial over at Gateworld today: http://www.gateworld.net/news/2011/05/how-wrestling-is-killing-science-fiction/ Also, file this one under “You just noticed?”: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/business/media/03television.html?scp=1&sq=tv%20ownership&st=cse Thanks to Chad for the link.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com...further-stargate-sg-1-season-5-reminiscences/

 

[Tropicana]

Mallozzi's very first online blog was at Gateworld!

http://www.gateworld.net/blogs/jmallozzi/

And anyone trying to deny the solid connection to Mallozzi and the Stargate production staff would be hard pressed to discount this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_fandom

The fandom knows how things went down. Gateworld's jugular vein was its connection to Stargate Productions (aka Brad Wright's Stargate franchise). That is over and the jugular has been severed. If Gateworld is our guide to all things Stargate, just what does that mean now?

Simple, if a new SG show is created and is a complete and utter reboot, then GW would serve no purpose at all.

 

[Overmind One]

Simple, if a new SG show is created and is a complete and utter reboot, then GW would serve no purpose at all.

And it WILL be a complete and utter reboot and neither Brad or Joe will be involved in it. Gateworld is like the old lady who still uses the typewriter to type out her reports, but the new Stargate will only have computers and Word. The old lady would have to move on. A new Stargate would be a total stranger to Gateworld.

 

[shavedape]

This latest joint attempt by Mallozzi and GW's Darren Sumner to paint this faux image of sincerity and integrity is hilarious, especially when everybody out there knows GW is a PR arm, the length GW went to censor comments to give a false representation of the Stargate fanbase and her opinions which will always be unforgivable and unforgettable, and Mallozzi & Co. and their numerous times to get rid of anti-SGUers. End result - poetic justice has been served. What comes around, goes around.

GW did all it could to silence voices that are considered to be anti-SGU and of course, Mallozzi now has to give them a shout out - GW tried and failed. That's a clear indication that GW is a PR arm, the very act by which Mallozzi has mentioned GW to the extent, it's as clear as day.

I couldn't agree more. Their mutual cyber strokefest is not only transparent as hell but also incredibly pathetic. It truly is sad that they both think they have some sort of power over Stargate/sci-fi fandom. The utter failure of SGU despite their exhaustive attempts to control fandom surrounding it is proof of the futility of their ridiculous efforts.

But it is good for a laugh -- a hearty one.