shavedape
Well Known GateFan
Out of curiosity stclare where are you keeping David these days, in your attic or in your cellar?
Mallozzi's Mailbag & More II
- Thread starter Mr. A
- Start date
Out of curiosity stclare where are you keeping David these days, in your attic or in your cellar?
stclare
Moderator & Mckay Super Fan
Out of curiosity stclare where are you keeping David these days, in your attic or in your cellar?
He escaped dont you know, slippery little sucker
Ill let him off though as he's got some onteresting films coming out. Cant wait to see the "Whistleblower" looks pretty intense.
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
He escaped dont you know, slippery little sucker
Ill let him off though as he's got some onteresting films coming out. Cant wait to see the "Whistleblower" looks pretty intense.
I just saw "Splice" the other day and thought of you, especially at the end.
Yeah, you make a good case for your comments on that there. He is entitled to his opinion, but if he does indeed believe that SGU was well done, then my perception of him is what is wrong. Perhaps I was expecting him to have some of the smarts of McKay, or be an intellectual of sorts. But that is evidently not the case.
Somebody who is a serious science fiction fan (who is also a science fan) could not find any enjoyment in SGU. Military types wouldnt find anything realistic in the show either.Hewlett also suggested that he would be "okay" with a combination movie which had SGA, SG-1 and SGU in it. Well, just no. How exactly would that work? SGU is a soap opera and SG-1 and SGA were action/adventure. The genres dont really mesh. Not only that, but the fact that the communications stones were not eliminated is a biggie. The magical tech aboard Destiny (as well as the "visions") are unknown in SG-1 or SGA.
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
The most telling thing about this scenario is that in order to make a movie combining all three shows they would have to make the SGU parts action/adventure and not soap drama. With the time constraints of a movie there's just no way they could waste time on naval gazing/shrill angry lesbian/teen lover moments. So in essence, to make even the concept of a movie work they would have to completely change SGU into something it's not, which only goes to prove that it was horribly flawed to begin with.
Personally I think a movie involving all three would be insulting to the quality of SG-1 and SGA. Those two shows don't need SGU but SGU needs them, that much is obvious. This is the kind of "math" that anyone can do.
Rac80
The Belle of the Ball
ALLOW ME TO ADD:
4. Horrible writing
5. Bad acting
6. Damn shaky cam
and finally
7. Bad editing-- *sounding like Tattoo from Fantasy Island* the car the car!
Personally i always found it interesting that shortly after those positive statements, DH's guest-starring on sgpoo was announced...I am sure he knew there were ongoing negotiations. Can't blame a man for wanting to feed his family!
OMNI
My avatar speaks for itself.
ALLOW ME TO ADD:
4. Horrible writing
5. Bad acting
6. Damn shaky cam
and finally
7. Bad editing-- *sounding like Tattoo from Fantasy Island* the car the car!
Personally i always found it interesting that shortly after those positive statements, DH's guest-starring on sgpoo was announced...I am sure he knew there were ongoing negotiations. Can't blame a man for wanting to feed his family!
you sound like a broken record.
All opinions are valid!
Only the record is broken, but the words are still the same and are still true.
SGU was indeed horribly acted overall, written poorly, the shaky cam WAS nauseating and annoying, and the editing sucked in most of the episode, with harsh lighting (or too little lighting), bad camera angles, and plotholes galore...IMO. I would think that the same complaints about the show are going to be repeated many many times by many people, so there will be a lot of "broken records" out there. Im one too! I will never "come around" to SGU unless its to creep up on it to push it off a cliff.
Only the record is broken, but the words are still the same and are still true.
SGU was indeed horribly acted overall, written poorly, the shaky cam WAS nauseating and annoying, and the editing sucked in most of the episode, with harsh lighting (or too little lighting), bad camera angles, and plotholes galore...IMO. I would think that the same complaints about the show are going to be repeated many many times by many people, so there will be a lot of "broken records" out there. Im one too! I will never "come around" to SGU unless its to creep up on it to push it off a cliff. 
YoshiKart64
Well Known GateFan
Yeah, you make a good case for your comments on that there. He is entitled to his opinion, but if he does indeed believe that SGU was well done, then my perception of him is what is wrong. Perhaps I was expecting him to have some of the smarts of McKay, or be an intellectual of sorts. But that is evidently not the case.
Hewlett also suggested that he would be "okay" with a combination movie which had SGA, SG-1 and SGU in it. Well, just no. How exactly would that work? SGU is a soap opera and SG-1 and SGA were action/adventure. The genres dont really mesh. Not only that, but the fact that the communications stones were not eliminated is a biggie. The magical tech aboard Destiny (as well as the "visions") are unknown in SG-1 or SGA.
I disagree, I'm a big science fiction fan (Firefly!) and I enjoyed SGU a great deal. I get why the show isn't for you but it's a little unfair to say that anyone who likes it isn't intelligent or a sci-fi fan.
As for a movie that combined all three - well it could be done. Evidently though one show would have to be the basis for the crossover - even in the Pegasus project the show was grounded in SG1 territory.
Every Stargate film just has Stargate in the title though - I don't see why one would sell more than the other to the average consumer. All they see is Stargate.
OMNI
My avatar speaks for itself.
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
I don't want this to be construed as a personal attack but a point needs to be made here. In order to like SGU one has to compromise objective standards and values. One literally has to evade reality in order to overlook the GIGANTIC flaws inherent in the show. This may not be a matter of intellect as much as it is a matter of intellectual honesty. To claim to like SGU without addressing the gigantic flaws is to admit that one is using their emotions to dictate their cognitive functions ('I want to like it so I do!') which is the worst way to use one's rational faculty.
I find this to be a convenient cop out. What you're doing Yoshi is setting up your excuse for accepting exactly what I said would have to happen -- that SGU would have to jettison its lame, unappealing style and become a version of SG-1 (action/adventure). The fact that this would, obviously, be how they would have to proceed proves that SGU is a failure in concept and execution in toto.
As for SGA being grounded in SG-1 territory that is because it was -- the style and tone and production of the show mimicked SG-1 and was successful because of it. They used established canon to dictate the laws and limits of SGA. Where was the canon in SGU? SGU isn't grounded in SG-1 territory and took pains to make sure that we, the viewers, knew that. This tact didn't work as witnessed by the plummeting ratings and ultimate death of the show.
So, basically, you want to use the established canon, tone, style, characterizations, etc. of SG-1 to raise SGU to a level that it doesn't deserve, correct? Why does it deserve it, simply because it has Stargate in the name? That isn't enough of a reason to do such a thing.
What's the point of diluting the quality of SG-1/SGA with the uninteresting, boring dreck of SGU? Just because you emotionally want an ending for SGU that isn't a reason to besmirch the two shows that came before it by lumping SGU in with them. I fail to see the reason for adding poison to a gourmet dish and you have, as yet, not provided reason enough for this. Just wanting an ending for SGU isn't the same as having legitimate reasons for that ending, n'est pas?
YoshiKart64
Well Known GateFan
But here's the thing - those flaws are only gigantic to you and those who don't like the show. Every show has flaws and its just the degree to which they affect your viewing experience - for me I can understand them but they don't impair my viewing experiance. For example I can see they have't done enough with the female characters but it doesn't make me hate the show. If I thought the show sucked I wouldn't watch it - the fact is that I think the show is pretty good despite its flaws. I can't disagree with you enough that one has to compromise to like the show, it just isn't like that.
Quite to the contrary I think an SGU movie would simply have featured Atlantis and SG1 characters helping with Destiny's mission. Something which I'm fine with since I consider it just as much a part of the franchise as the other two, plus I enjoy seeing those characters. I enjoy SGU as a sci-fi drama, not a soap. As much as some of the people on here want to classify it as the latter I disagree.
I still don't understand the idea of SGU not following the SG1 canon. It didn't drastically change anything from those shows, it only tried to tell a different type of story within that world. Personally speaking I really don't have an issue with it being part of the canon.
No, I don't think Universe needs to be raised to SG1 level -they are trying to tell different types of stories. As I said I'm not opposed to characters crossing over since I enjoy seeing them and I enjoy Universe. Therefore for me, its all good Stargate.
I want an ending for SGU because shows the end on cliffhangers suck. I want to be able to go back in a few years and find that both Atlantis and Universe work as a story with proper endings, it just makes them less enjoyable otherwise.
Think about what you just said...
I dont understand this view at all. I am a military veteran. So to watch Young trying to play the part of an Air Force Colonel is painful, and to see Scott trying to pass himself off as a soldier is very off-putting. The showrunners got the military in SG-1 and in SGA right because the actual military was schooling them how to do it. Lets say you are a chess player (are you?), how would you like it if you saw a chessgame being played in SGU and you noticed that one the players had set the board up wrong, and then it was compounded with watching one of the players "jump" several other pieces and take them off the board like in checkers? Thats what its like for me watching SGU. When you are an analytical thinker (and an educated one too), listening to Rush try to sound like a scientist is laughable. Its because the writers dont know science either. Why did they dump the military and science advisors? Because they knew their "newer and edgier" audience wouldnt be interested in that...they would be watching to see what Chloe would be wearing, or trying to figure out who is the father of whose baby, who is sleeping with who, etc.
The SHOWRUNNERS classified it as a space based, serialized character drama (a soap opera), not us and not the "haters". Even Brad's wife knows this. SGU fans are the ones calling it science fiction, but the creators of the show say that its a drama, and the show is OBVIOUSLY not science fiction. You are classifying it as science fiction, but the creators of the show did not. Like Ape said, in order for SGU to play on the same stage as SG-1 or SGA, it has to lose its SGU-ness and briefly become something else. Look at the crossover episodes...each one needed to add action and pew pew into it to make it appropriate to introduce Sam and Daniel, as well aas the McKay/Woolsey episode (which wasnt about them at all).
It changed a LOT, Yoshi! The stargates are smaller and less powerful, the Destiny has a neural interface which creates visions and plays tricks on the minds of the crew (why didnt Atlantis or the Aurora or the Antarctic base or any of the other Acienct sites and devices do this?). The designs were clearly NOT Ancient, and nothing in SGU which is supposed to be designed by the Ancients seems to match anything in SG-1 or SGA. The handheld DHD is more advanced than the newer DHD devices in SG-1 and SGA, and the way the Ancients are perceived in SGU makes them out to be inept and absent-minded. Why does the chair on Destiny not control the ship or fire weapons like they do on all the other Ancient ships? Even the "mission" of Destiny makes no sense, and was only added in season 2 because the show was tanking so badly. Originally, there was no mission and one wasnt planned to be introduced. Season 1 was supposed to have us hooked and into the soapy character drama that they wrote, but that failed and the fans were complaining about there being a lack of direction and plot. Soaps dont need a laid out plot, they are just made up along the way after the characters have been established. Thats what SGU was going for.
SGU was originally intended to be a completely different movie not at all connected with Stargate. Rob Cooper and Brad pitched it as a movie to MGM, but they rejected it. So, they turned that movie idea into Stargate Universe by sticking a prop on the ship. They themselves have said this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCVCF7beFgM
Personally, I LOVED the ending of Stargate Universe! Its one of the most satisfying endings I could have for a show like this!:
I dont understand this view at all. I am a military veteran. So to watch Young trying to play the part of an Air Force Colonel is painful, and to see Scott trying to pass himself off as a soldier is very off-putting. The showrunners got the military in SG-1 and in SGA right because the actual military was schooling them how to do it. Lets say you are a chess player (are you?), how would you like it if you saw a chessgame being played in SGU and you noticed that one the players had set the board up wrong, and then it was compounded with watching one of the players "jump" several other pieces and take them off the board like in checkers? Thats what its like for me watching SGU. When you are an analytical thinker (and an educated one too), listening to Rush try to sound like a scientist is laughable. Its because the writers dont know science either. Why did they dump the military and science advisors? Because they knew their "newer and edgier" audience wouldnt be interested in that...they would be watching to see what Chloe would be wearing, or trying to figure out who is the father of whose baby, who is sleeping with who, etc.
The SHOWRUNNERS classified it as a space based, serialized character drama (a soap opera), not us and not the "haters". Even Brad's wife knows this. SGU fans are the ones calling it science fiction, but the creators of the show say that its a drama, and the show is OBVIOUSLY not science fiction. You are classifying it as science fiction, but the creators of the show did not. Like Ape said, in order for SGU to play on the same stage as SG-1 or SGA, it has to lose its SGU-ness and briefly become something else. Look at the crossover episodes...each one needed to add action and pew pew into it to make it appropriate to introduce Sam and Daniel, as well aas the McKay/Woolsey episode (which wasnt about them at all).
It changed a LOT, Yoshi! The stargates are smaller and less powerful, the Destiny has a neural interface which creates visions and plays tricks on the minds of the crew (why didnt Atlantis or the Aurora or the Antarctic base or any of the other Acienct sites and devices do this?). The designs were clearly NOT Ancient, and nothing in SGU which is supposed to be designed by the Ancients seems to match anything in SG-1 or SGA. The handheld DHD is more advanced than the newer DHD devices in SG-1 and SGA, and the way the Ancients are perceived in SGU makes them out to be inept and absent-minded. Why does the chair on Destiny not control the ship or fire weapons like they do on all the other Ancient ships? Even the "mission" of Destiny makes no sense, and was only added in season 2 because the show was tanking so badly. Originally, there was no mission and one wasnt planned to be introduced. Season 1 was supposed to have us hooked and into the soapy character drama that they wrote, but that failed and the fans were complaining about there being a lack of direction and plot. Soaps dont need a laid out plot, they are just made up along the way after the characters have been established. Thats what SGU was going for.
SGU was originally intended to be a completely different movie not at all connected with Stargate. Rob Cooper and Brad pitched it as a movie to MGM, but they rejected it. So, they turned that movie idea into Stargate Universe by sticking a prop on the ship. They themselves have said this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCVCF7beFgM
Personally, I LOVED the ending of Stargate Universe! Its one of the most satisfying endings I could have for a show like this!:
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
You prove my point that one needs to evade the facts of objective reality in order to like SGU. The flaws are gigantic (the premise is stolen, derivative and outright plagiarized for one, the characters are also stolen, same with the style and production values [BSG anyone?], there's more, tons more) and to brush them off as not being big enough to affect your viewing experience means that you are avoiding them -- purposely. This isn't a matter of having a subjective opinion, rather, it's an example of willful mental evasion. So yes, it is just like that.
The term "sci-fi drama" is a euphemism for "soap" with sci-fi window dressing. It's the same thing and it's really not a point worthy of contesting much. Melodrama is melodrama be it on an afternoon soap opera or on a SyFy show involving space travel. No matter how you slice it, it's bad.
We can debate whether or not it followed established canon but it definitely hasn't added to the canon, that's for sure. The case can be made that SGA followed canon (it was established based on a canonical detail in SG-1 re: the Ancients and Atlantis) and added to that canon. SGU may have utilized the detail of the Ancients but Destiny wasn't part of the previous two shows, it wasn't even mentioned in them. I don't see a lot of canonical details in SGU. Perhaps you do? (They went thru the majority of the show, so far, where the most important canonical detail -- the stargate -- wasn't even used.)
You also said that one of the shows would have to assume a dominant style in such a movie. Since SGU was a total failure in terms of style it would be insane to assume they would use that style for the movie so that only leaves the action/adventure/square-jawed hero style of SG-1/SGA.
This has nothing to do with characters crossing over and everything to do with leeching off of the style that has made those two shows popular and profitable. It's an obvious and cynical attempt to exploit all that was good about those shows. Again, to deny this is to deny reality.
We've argued about this point before and I doubt we'll ever see eye-to-eye on it. SGA deserves a "proper ending" because it was successful and yet never really got a good wrap up. Based on the style of the show (action/adventure) this would probably be quite good and would garner good ratings/DVD sales.
Now take SGU. For it to get a "proper ending", i.e. a movie, the entire style of the show would have to change to that of action/adventure. In a tri-show movie where there would be less screen time for SGU moments they would obviously have to use that time to be more action/adventure stylistically. There simply wouldn't be room for any Scott/Chloe moments. And if they did insert that crap into it that would only drag the movie down.
So basically, SGU can't survive on its own in any way, shape or form. In order for it to have any sort of "proper ending" it would have to exploit the popularity of SG-1 and SGA. This is a fact. And it's exactly what I said Brad Wright would try to do once he realized the majority of Stargate fans did not like or want SGU. It's cynical and petty and would only serve to bolster his wounded ego. It would do little to sate the desires of SG-1 or SGA fans. In fact, such a movie would probably infuriate SGA fans as it's doubtful they'd fly Atlantis all the way back to the Pegasus galaxy and pick up where they left off. No, what they'd do is simply have a few of the characters show up ala McKay fixing a computer and maybe Sheppard flying a Puddle Jumper and that's it. It wouldn't be a satisfying ending for SGA and that isn't acceptable to fans.
At any rate, the wicked witch is dead and I, for one, have no problem with that.
YoshiKart64
Well Known GateFan
We could argue on this all day but to be honest I just think we have too different views on the subject. At the end of the day you think the flaws in SGU are massive and I don't. You think it was a creative failure and I don't.
We disagree on those fundamental points and that infuses our entire point of view.
But anyway I'm sure we can both understand that it sucks when TV shows don't get proper endings. In a perfect world Atlantis would get a proper ending and so would Universe (and for that matter SG1 which could have a nicer ending) - then people could just watch what they want and avoid what they dislike.
We disagree on those fundamental points and that infuses our entire point of view.
But anyway I'm sure we can both understand that it sucks when TV shows don't get proper endings. In a perfect world Atlantis would get a proper ending and so would Universe (and for that matter SG1 which could have a nicer ending) - then people could just watch what they want and avoid what they dislike.
OMNI
My avatar speaks for itself.
Sg1 and SGA was also FULL of flaws if you strip everything apart and analyse it to death yet that did not effect my viewing experience as i seemed to enjoy it.
as for SGU yes there are flaws ALOT of them however Sgu is still watchable and there has even been great actor performances and on occasion there has been a good story.
i cant call myself a fan of sgu nor do i agree with everything TPTW did with it but i still find it moderatly enjoyable to watch and ive seen every ep to date 2-3 times sure the majorty sucks but overall Sgu is a descent show unlike all the other crap on tv atm like NCIS, V, sanctuary, Eureka etc which IMO are several times worse the SGU has ever been.
my point is that sure SGu has flaws but watching it does not make me vomit or scratch my eyes out as it seems to do for most of you Haters, and see you constantly rant about something you hate and that has been cancelled is amusing and scary seeing that its JUST A TV SHOW... A cancelled TV SHOW!
/2cents
as for SGU yes there are flaws ALOT of them however Sgu is still watchable and there has even been great actor performances and on occasion there has been a good story.
i cant call myself a fan of sgu nor do i agree with everything TPTW did with it but i still find it moderatly enjoyable to watch and ive seen every ep to date 2-3 times sure the majorty sucks but overall Sgu is a descent show unlike all the other crap on tv atm like NCIS, V, sanctuary, Eureka etc which IMO are several times worse the SGU has ever been.
my point is that sure SGu has flaws but watching it does not make me vomit or scratch my eyes out as it seems to do for most of you Haters, and see you constantly rant about something you hate and that has been cancelled is amusing and scary seeing that its JUST A TV SHOW... A cancelled TV SHOW!
/2cents
LOL!
Bolded...Ill just assume you are in a bad mood.. SGU is a decent show? But V, NCIS, Sanctuary and Eureka are crap? 
SGU is hated by Stargate fans because it ruined the REAL Stargate show franchise. I couldnt care less if SGU had failed if Atlantis was still on the air alongside it. It would be gone, and Stargate would continue. But SGU and its ultra high cost and demand for set space in the studios at Bridge killed all of the rest of Stargate. I did not like ST: Enterprise. So, I watched Voyager instead. And because of Voyager and DS9 and TNG, Star Trek has been rebooted. It may take a revival of Stlantis or a new movie from Emmerich and Devlin to restart Stargate. But SGU is a destroyer of interest in Stargate, as proven by what happened to the show and to the fandom because of the show.
Bolded...Ill just assume you are in a bad mood.
. SGU is a decent show? But V, NCIS, Sanctuary and Eureka are crap? SGU is hated by Stargate fans because it ruined the REAL Stargate show franchise. I couldnt care less if SGU had failed if Atlantis was still on the air alongside it. It would be gone, and Stargate would continue. But SGU and its ultra high cost and demand for set space in the studios at Bridge killed all of the rest of Stargate. I did not like ST: Enterprise. So, I watched Voyager instead. And because of Voyager and DS9 and TNG, Star Trek has been rebooted. It may take a revival of Stlantis or a new movie from Emmerich and Devlin to restart Stargate. But SGU is a destroyer of interest in Stargate, as proven by what happened to the show and to the fandom because of the show.
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
There is personal subjectivity and then there is outright denial of facts of reality. This discussion is about the latter, obviously, at least to those of us who don't evade reality that is. "Fundamental points" don't represent mere subjective tastes, they're lynch pins of the point of contention.
In a perfect world SGU wouldn't get an ending, proper or otherwise because SGU isn't perfect, not by a long shot. A perfect world assumes everyone gets what they want including those investing in the production of a movie. SGU wouldn't deliver profits as a movie. It is a proven failure. So much for perfection, at least for the suckers foolish enough to bankroll an SGU movie.
All the wishing in the world that SGU morphs into something it's not simply means that you willfully choose not to recognize the reality of SGU's nature. A dog is a dog is a dog. You want it to have an ending and in order for that to happen it would have to become a different show. You want that dog to morph into a cat even though you claim (loudly) to be a dog lover. It simply wouldn't be the SGU that you love so much. This is reality Yoshi. It's not a question of mere tastes conflicting, it's a matter of you, emotionally, trying to have your cake and eat it too -- at the expense of really good cake like SG-1 and SGA.
<snip>
