So how was your day?

[Graybrew1]

One of my neighbors is a supervisor at PHI for TSA, he is college educated and very intelligent. There are stupid Teacher, Doctors, Cops, TSA, Lawyers, and Janitors.... my pet peeve is over generalization. I have never had any major problem with any TSA every. The stopped me from bringing a Torch lighter on a plane in Salt Lake City. They were polite and intelligent enough. They explained my choices and I told them to throw the thing away, off to my flight I went.

The whole point of the ziplock bag is that they check the fluids so that that cannot happen. They would be able to do it guaranteed without it. We are not the only country that has these restrictions. The only difference I noticed in other countries was that sometimes I did not have to take off my shoes. My main delay at airports, is always checking in. This is the fault of the airline and not a TSA matter.

I continue to understand that you are unwilling to give up any rights no matter the cost, I am.

Ask the men and women that are serving overseas with bombs exploding around them if this is a war. It is. Timothy Mcveigh is like comparing apples to oranges. There are nations of people that want us all dead.

 

[shavedape]

The TSA doesn't know their ass from their elbow. They employ dropouts with high-school equivalencies. The US isn't stupid. They have agencies like the NSA, the FBI, the CIA that have been highly successful and are relatively organized since their inception. Why is TSA such an exception?

The next time you see eight TSA agents hanging around the x-ray machine cracking jokes, you'll understand why I say they are *not* understaffed.



If the USA can't put together a comprehensive security plan for their own airports, then were in a lot more trouble than we think and it proves that the country is being led by mentally challenged bureaucrats. Israel and UK been dealing with it for decades. So, look to them for advice on how to implement efficient and effective security and stop putting ignorant people in charge of vital government agencies as we do now.



Grey, you know I love ya but that's just plain silly and more proof that the fear mongering has managed to convince you of the bullshit they push.

Watch this:
- board plane with liquids in ziplock
- sit in my seat
- pull liquids out of ziplock
- wave goodbye out window
- mix & kaboom

Oh, look! I did the absolute impossible! I broke the impregnable sandwich-bag security!

There's no pussyfooting around it. It is a plainly stupid and useless measure.



If Israel can keep bombs off their planes, it would be wise to consult the Israelis on airport security.



That's admirable and would expect nothing less. However, if you're referring to giving up constitutional rights, then you've allowed the terrorists to win and are allowing your country to move towards a policed state.



Another misconception. Was the US at war with Timothy Mcveigh, too?



Yet Israel gets it and can implement smooth, efficient security without stripping you of your dignity and patience. You've allowed the bullshit started by the Bush cronies to clutter your judgment. The US is the most advanced country on the planet when it comes to military and conventional technology, law enforcement and intelligence but, somehow, we're ass-backwards with airport security.



Do you have an idea of how many post 9/11 terrorist plots have been stopped by unlawful search, detention without cause and no-warrant wire taps? Again, by allowing our constitutional rights to be eroded in this manner, we let the terrorists win.

I think the problem is the arrogance of the higher ups in the bureaucracy. They literally don't want to appear ignorant of modern security methods by asking the Israelis for advice on how to properly and efficiently run the operation. It's this 'I-know-best!' hubris that is dangerous. And having an army of mouth-breathing, borderline jack-booted thugs at the 'point of sale', i.e. at the security check points, only helps to insure that the arrogant idiots remain in their positions of power at the TSA. God forbid they had anyone employed there who actually questioned their policies and procedures. Can't have that, no siree. :roll:

As for the Patriot Act, well, the name alone is loaded with implication. It blatantly suggests that if you don't support it you aren't a patriot. :roll: The fact that people like Michele Bachmann voted for it and continue to support it proves they have no clue what being a true American patriot means. No one who loves the constitutional tenets this country was founded on could give their sanction to such a horrific piece of legislation. To sanction it is to give in to the worst possible fear mongering imaginable. That road only leads to tyranny and serfdom. Or as good old Ben Franklin said:

"They that would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

The world isn't a safe place, it never has been and never will be, but we're smart enough to remain safe without giving up our rights as sovereign human beings.

...Could someone help me down off my soapbox please? Thanks.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Nah, you look good on it Shaved

 

[OMNI]

Stop making it so easy on an open board bud

?

 

[Gatefan1976]

Nevermind dude

 

[shavedape]

Nah, you look good on it Shaved

Into our cups already? It's what, 9 a.m. there in OZ.

So, yeah, Stephen King's Insomnia, surely you concur that it was horrible, eh wot? I know in his memoir he admitted he had a severe drinking problem (not sure about drugs) during that writing period. Whether or not that was the reason Insomnia sucked donkey balls we'll never know. Suffice to say all these years later I'm still pissed I wasted a few bucks on the paperback. God it was awful, just awful!

Weird thing was I found Needful Things quite good. It was like it had been written by someone completely different. It was when I read that King book that I suspected he had a ghost writer who popped in and helped out when he was too out of it mentally to handle the writing gig. The discrepancies in writing style are just too obvious not to raise an eyebrow of suspicion. The only other explanation I can surmise in this case is that he had an editor who actually did something for once.

At any rate, something hinky was going on back then and he's never copped to it. The truth will probably come out after he croaks. It's pretty obvious King isn't going to spill the beans or he would have by now.

 

[Graybrew1]

You have kind of agreed with my point about Isreal and UK being better able to deal with these threats because of many more decades of practice. That can be said for most other countries. We alone thought we were untouchable. Why? Because we had been untouched. That is human nature again. If you have never been mugged, you might think it will never happen to you. If your house has never been robbed you might think that it will never happen. When it does, you might give up some of your freedom to protect yourself. You might (I have in past) gotten a security system and had to take time out if your day every morning and night to turn off and on, you have to check windows and learn the security codes. It is a bit of a pain in the butt. Do you see the metaphor here?

Is it perfect? No, but it has been this way through both the Republicans and the Democrats.

I am a taxpaying American and I respect your rights to oppose it, and I expect you to respect my rights to support it. This country hurting badly financially right now. IMO, there is a much bigger issue at hand. The government needs to stop blocking us from drilling in our own country. If we were more financially sound I would be willing to bet the the TSA training issues would be handled.

There is an old saying.........You get what you pay for. The TSA, The DMV, The Unemployment Offices, Social Security..... they are all underpaid. If you want quality staff you have to pay for it. This nation can't afford that right now. A couple years of drilling our own oil and we shall be able to.

Please note, this is just IMO.

 

[Bluce Ree]

One of my neighbors is a supervisor at PHI for TSA, he is college educated and very intelligent. There are stupid Teacher, Doctors, Cops, TSA, Lawyers, and Janitors.... my pet peeve is over generalization. I have never had any major problem with any TSA every. The stopped me from bringing a Torch lighter on a plane in Salt Lake City. They were polite and intelligent enough. They explained my choices and I told them to throw the thing away, off to my flight I went.

Not all TSA are stupid but there are more than there should be. Stupid cops or doctors don't concern me in this instance because they don't affect the quality of the security provided at airports. Having an ignorant dumbass standing between you and a safe flight is very scary when you think about it hard enough.

Working for just about any federal law enforcement agency in the US involves a high level of scrutiny and a good deal of intense training. That doesn't seem to be the case for TSA.

The whole point of the ziplock bag is that they check the fluids so that that cannot happen. They would be able to do it guaranteed without it. We are not the only country that has these restrictions. The only difference I noticed in other countries was that sometimes I did not have to take off my shoes. My main delay at airports, is always checking in. This is the fault of the airline and not a TSA matter.

The ziplock bag is just an example of stupid rules enacted to make people feel like they're safe and something is being done. It's about perception and it is utterly useless. Fear mongering.

I continue to understand that you are unwilling to give up any rights no matter the cost, I am.

None of the Patriot Act measures have served any purpose other than allowing blatant abuse of its intent for non-terrorist related matters. It has not directly aided law enforcement in anything related to terrorism.

Ask the men and women that are serving overseas with bombs exploding around them if this is a war. It is. Timothy Mcveigh is like comparing apples to oranges. There are nations of people that want us all dead.

Timothy Mcveigh was a terrorist, period. He planned and successfully executed a terrorist attack in Oklahoma, killing 167 people and wounding 684. It was in retaliation for the Waco incident. Just because he wasn't Muslim doesn't make him any better or worse than Al Qaeda and they share the same M.O.

Terrorists are nothing but factions with no homeland. They don't represent a people or a country and have no home country to invade or attack. Calling a mission against terrorism "war" is a misnomer brought about by the fine folks of the Bush White House. If it were a war, terrorists would be afforded rights under the Geneva convention. However, every time one is caught, they are deemed an "unlawful combatant" and treated as such without any governing rules or rights. A direct contradiction to the idea that this is somehow a "war" against a group or entity.

"Nations of people that want us all dead" is a very generalized and not well thought out statement. When you see a group of Muslims in the news dancing and cheering while chanting "death to america!", it's propaganda. 50 or 100 people dancing and chanting does not equal the entire nation. And, yes, shocking that the media exploits such scenes for shock effect. Don't take it from me. You can Google articles discussing this subject. I've gotten this information straight from the horse's mouth.

 

[Bluce Ree]

I think the problem is the arrogance of the higher ups in the bureaucracy. They literally don't want to appear ignorant of modern security methods by asking the Israelis for advice on how to properly and efficiently run the operation. It's this 'I-know-best!' hubris that is dangerous. And having an army of mouth-breathing, borderline jack-booted thugs at the 'point of sale', i.e. at the security check points, only helps to insure that the arrogant idiots remain in their positions of power at the TSA. God forbid they had anyone employed there who actually questioned their policies and procedures. Can't have that, no siree. :roll:

Part of the problem, IMO, is that this country is far too driven on capitalism and capitalistic interests. Corporations are given priority over public safety and what's best for the American public. Somewhere down the line, the government has forgotten its job.

As for the Patriot Act, well, the name alone is loaded with implication. It blatantly suggests that if you don't support it you aren't a patriot. :roll: The fact that people like Michele Bachmann voted for it and continue to support it proves they have no clue what being a true American patriot means. No one who loves the constitutional tenets this country was founded on could give their sanction to such a horrific piece of legislation. To sanction it is to give in to the worst possible fear mongering imaginable. That road only leads to tyranny and serfdom. Or as good old Ben Franklin said:

"They that would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

The world isn't a safe place, it never has been and never will be, but we're smart enough to remain safe without giving up our rights as sovereign human beings.

...Could someone help me down off my soapbox please? Thanks.

I really couldn't have said that any better myself. If people only knew and understood what was in the Act, they wouldn't so quick to praise it.

 

[Graybrew1]

Well a stupid Doctor mistake will kill you in a heartbeat. Figuratively and literally. I know THIS for a fact.

Okay, so, you are no longer debating the merits of the ziplock bag? Give me another "stupid rule". The torch lighter I forgot was in my purse, could have blown up the plane. That was my dumb mistake. I am glad they caught it.

Unless you have special security clearance I am unaware of, there is no way for you to know that the Patriot Act has not aided law enforcement. You would not be told, that is the whole point of the act. The CIA also has done countless actions through the years that you and I have no knowledge of.

I am not saying the OK City Bombing was any less important or devasting. I am not comparing the size of the bombs or the amount dead or wounded.
I simply do not believe that the statement you made about the every video being propoganda. I also don't believe the Moon landing was faked or that Bush was behind 9/11. These are also theories that you can google about.

Over generalized? Fair enough. Let me clarify. These are thousands of people in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria,Iran, and Iraq that want us dead.

 

[Bluce Ree]

You have kind of agreed with my point about Isreal and UK being better able to deal with these threats because of many more decades of practice. That can be said for most other countries. We alone thought we were untouchable. Why? Because we had been untouched. That is human nature again. If you have never been mugged, you might think it will never happen to you. If your house has never been robbed you might think that it will never happen. When it does, you might give up some of your freedom to protect yourself. You might (I have in past) gotten a security system and had to take time out if your day every morning and night to turn off and on, you have to check windows and learn the security codes. It is a bit of a pain in the butt. Do you see the metaphor here?

Is it perfect? No, but it has been this way through both the Republicans and the Democrats.

We've turned to foreign consultants before. In fact, we hire foreign companies to manage critical operations, like port security, so, it's nothing new. Why wouldn't we turn to the experts in airport security for assistance? Arrogance? Perhaps but evidence suggest cronyism and fear mongering are more likely. There's nothing quite like adding another hour to airport security to make people feel scared yet like they're being even more protected when CNN reports a rumor about a possible terrorist plot.

I am a taxpaying American and I respect your rights to oppose it, and I expect you to respect my rights to support it. This country hurting badly financially right now. IMO, there is a much bigger issue at hand. The government needs to stop blocking us from drilling in our own country. If we were more financially sound I would be willing to bet the the TSA training issues would be handled.

We were apparently "financially sound" from 2001 to 2007. All we got were dimbulbs and dumbasses cluttering the TSA. Miami Airport is crawling with mentally disabled TSA agents. Fort Lauderdale Airport, however, not so much. Why the disparity in intelligence between two airports so close together? Nepotism, maybe?

There is an old saying.........You get what you pay for. The TSA, The DMV, The Unemployment Offices, Social Security..... they are all underpaid. If you want quality staff you have to pay for it. This nation can't afford that right now. A couple years of drilling our own oil and we shall be able to.

Please note, this is just IMO.

You're stating the bold as fact yet you say that it's merely your opinion. Which is it?

 

[Gatefan1976]

Into our cups already? It's what, 9 a.m. there in OZ.

So, yeah, Stephen King's Insomnia, surely you concur that it was horrible, eh wot? I know in his memoir he admitted he had a severe drinking problem (not sure about drugs) during that writing period. Whether or not that was the reason Insomnia sucked donkey balls we'll never know. Suffice to say all these years later I'm still pissed I wasted a few bucks on the paperback. God it was awful, just awful!

Weird thing was I found Needful Things quite good. It was like it had been written by someone completely different. It was when I read that King book that I suspected he had a ghost writer who popped in and helped out when he was too out of it mentally to handle the writing gig. The discrepancies in writing style are just too obvious not to raise an eyebrow of suspicion. The only other explanation I can surmise in this case is that he had an editor who actually did something for once.

At any rate, something hinky was going on back then and he's never copped to it. The truth will probably come out after he croaks. It's pretty obvious King isn't going to spill the beans or he would have by now.

IIRC he did "cop to it" it was around that point that he was giving up the drugs and alcohol buddy
He talks about it in "on writing" I think. Needful things however I think represents the last truly "great" novel by SK, (besides Black house, and even it was a bit shakey). Everything after then has (IMHO of course) been "lesser" in some way.

 

[OMNI]

Part of the problem, IMO, is that this country is far too driven on capitalism and capitalistic interests. Corporations are given priority over public safety and what's best for the American public. Somewhere down the line, the government has forgotten its job.




I really couldn't have said that any better myself. If people only knew and understood what was in the Act, they wouldn't so quick to praise it.

i def agree with you there and over tha last 20 years or so my country has and is going down this path privatising EVERYTHING and letting corporations move in and run them AND make PROFIT on taxcpayer money.. wth is that? taxes are payed by the people to be used to the benifit of the people not venture capitalist corporations to make even more profit off of IMO. And yes corporations are given priority over us regular folk BC somewhere someone thought that constant growth and constantly maximising profit somehow makes it better for the common man?

this is why i hate the right and crap like the "trickle down theory" imo they dont giva a flying F about the common man or want to make life better for everyone they want to make their own wallets fatter and emply us common folk as slaves all for the benifit of their egos..

 

[shavedape]

Part of the problem, IMO, is that this country is far too driven on capitalism and capitalistic interests. Corporations are given priority over public safety and what's best for the American public. Somewhere down the line, the government has forgotten its job.

Well, I don't have a beef with capitalism per se but when it comes to things like farming out airport security to private corporations, that gives me pause. They can talk all they want about how well trained their employees are, blah blah blah, but the truth be told they're going to be staffed by $10 an hour employees and we all know what that means. It's not like our bags and bodies are going to be getting checked by Quantico alumni that's for sure. This is where the capitalistic trait of cutting corners to save money just doesn't work. If the TSA is going to be a governmental policing force then is shouldn't be run like a private security firm for a shopping mall.

 

[OMNI]

One of my neighbors is a supervisor at PHI for TSA, he is college educated and very intelligent. There are stupid Teacher, Doctors, Cops, TSA, Lawyers, and Janitors.... my pet peeve is over generalization. I have never had any major problem with any TSA every. The stopped me from bringing a Torch lighter on a plane in Salt Lake City. They were polite and intelligent enough. They explained my choices and I told them to throw the thing away, off to my flight I went.

The whole point of the ziplock bag is that they check the fluids so that that cannot happen. They would be able to do it guaranteed without it. We are not the only country that has these restrictions. The only difference I noticed in other countries was that sometimes I did not have to take off my shoes. My main delay at airports, is always checking in. This is the fault of the airline and not a TSA matter.

I continue to understand that you are unwilling to give up any rights no matter the cost, I am.

Ask the men and women that are serving overseas with bombs exploding around them if this is a war. It is. Timothy Mcveigh is like comparing apples to oranges. There are nations of people that want us all dead.

agreeing with apes statement on first bolded.

and as for seconf have you ever stopped to think WHY they want you all dead?

 

[OMNI]

Well, I don't have a beef with capitalism per se but when it comes to things like farming out airport security to private corporations, that gives me pause. They can talk all they want about how well trained their employees are, blah blah blah, but the truth be told they're going to be staffed by $10 an hour employees and we all know what that means. It's not like our bags and bodies are going to be getting checked by Quantico alumni that's for sure. This is where the capitalistic trait of cutting corners to save money just doesn't work. If the TSA is going to be a governmental policing force then is shouldn't be run like a private security firm for a shopping mall.

there is WAY WAY more things it doesnt work with.

 

[shavedape]

IIRC he did "cop to it" it was around that point that he was giving up the drugs and alcohol buddy
He talks about it in "on writing" I think. Needful things however I think represents the last truly "great" novel by SK, (besides Black house, and even it was a bit shakey). Everything after then has (IMHO of course) been "lesser" in some way.

I was referencing "On Writing" but I don't recall him admitting that he had someone else write for him. I'll have to go reread that section. It's been a few years but my impression was that he said his drinking (drug use?) had gotten out of hand and that's why his writing suffered.

For what it's worth that book, "On Writing", is quite good as writing instruction goes. King still comes off as a smug twat in places, but he's tolerable if what one wants is good writing advice.

 

[shavedape]

there is WAY WAY more things it doesnt work with.

I'm only referencing it in relation to the TSA in this regard. It is, in essence, a police job and should be staffed by qualified law enforcement professionals and not some kids hired by some company who put in the lowest bid for the contract.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Well, I don't have a beef with capitalism per se but when it comes to things like farming out airport security to private corporations, that gives me pause. They can talk all they want about how well trained their employees are, blah blah blah, but the truth be told they're going to be staffed by $10 an hour employees and we all know what that means. It's not like our bags and bodies are going to be getting checked by Quantico alumni that's for sure. This is where the capitalistic trait of cutting corners to save money just doesn't work. If the TSA is going to be a governmental policing force then is shouldn't be run like a private security firm for a shopping mall.

Bingo! Higher paid, professionally trained law enforcement personnel providing airport security will also mean fewer of them are required. You won't have eight of them standing around the air-blowing machine discussing what's for lunch.

I don't have a beef with capitalism, either, but I dislike when private interests trump public interests, such as in the case of airport security.

 

[Graybrew1]

We've turned to foreign consultants before. In fact, we hire foreign companies to manage critical operations, like port security, so, it's nothing new. Why wouldn't we turn to the experts in airport security for assistance? Arrogance? Perhaps but evidence suggest cronyism and fear mongering are more likely. There's nothing quite like adding another hour to airport security to make people feel scared yet like they're being even more protected when CNN reports a rumor about a possible terrorist plot.



We were apparently "financially sound" from 2001 to 2007. All we got were dimbulbs and dumbasses cluttering the TSA. Miami Airport is crawling with mentally disabled TSA agents. Fort Lauderdale Airport, however, not so much. Why the disparity in intelligence between two airports so close together? Nepotism, maybe?



You're stating the bold as fact yet you say that it's merely your opinion. Which is it?

I don't argue with the point that they should get more help from the other countries, but it also does agree with my original point as to why they are so adept at it compared to us.

I don't think we were that financially sound. The TSA was created after 9/11. We immediately started spending overseas. I also feel bad for you about your problems with the Miama TSA, I don't like Miami airport. I have had bad experiences there with the airline personnel there. Perhaps the TSA are worse there as well, I did not have any problems there with them personally.

It is all my opinion. It is my opinion that they are underpaid. The entire post is my opinion. I am not sure how saying it is "stating it as fact". I stated it and it is my opinion. I am not privy to their exact salaries and so it would have to be an opinion.