DEFIANCE game and TV show - sink or swim?

[Overmind One]

I said we are "ostensibly halfway" through season one, which we are since this season is listed as only having 12 episodes. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defiance_(TV_series) ) And the first two episodes were the series premiere. We are, for all intents and purposes, halfway to the end of the first season. If you want to quibble about being on the lee side of the 6th episode so be it. It's too trivial to waste time arguing over.

Also, we need to remember that when making comparisons, SGU had 20 episodes per season whereas DEFIANCE only has 12/13 episodes per season. Granted, we can still chart the downward spiral but we need to keep in mind that SGU had more chances to repair the damage than DEFIANCE has.

And yes, it was "renewed" which is a fraudulent way of stating that the show had a guarantee two season run from the get go. This is so patently obvious that to state otherwise is to be delusional. Nothing was legitimately renewed here, rather, the marketing department is simply doing their job.

No Syfy show is gonna get "renewed" after only 4 episodes on a down ratings trajectory.

 

[Gatefan1976]

No Syfy show is gonna get "renewed" after only 4 episodes on a down ratings trajectory.

Hmm, lets look at NCIS, arguably the "gold standard" for procedural shows:
http://www.metacritic.com/tv/ncis

How many seasons are they on now with a metacritic score that is freaking laughable?

"only after 4 episodes and get renewed" you say?
4 eps is enough for you to draw a conclusion, but not enough for people "in the job"?? Please dude, you are embarrassing yourself.

 

[Overmind One]

Hmm, lets look at NCIS, arguably the "gold standard" for procedural shows:
http://www.metacritic.com/tv/ncis

How many seasons are they on now with a metacritic score that is freaking laughable?

"only after 4 episodes and get renewed" you say?
4 eps is enough for you to draw a conclusion, but not enough for people "in the job"?? Please dude, you are embarrassing yourself.

Not really. Syfy has a very clear track record: Dont perform and you get cancelled. We are the audience, and my "conclusions" are mere predictions based on the known antics of Syfy. NCIS is on CBS. Not at all out of line.

 

[Overmind One]

I find it funny that after all the shows we have watched start and die on Syfy that only Shaved and I can see fit to project the demise (in detail) of this silly little show. Its not like you have nothing to work with. .

 

[Bluce Ree]

I find it funny that after all the shows we have watched start and die on Syfy that only Shaved and I can see fit to project the demise (in detail) of this silly little show. Its not like you have nothing to work with. .

Excuse me. I buried this show during the pilot.

 

[Gatefan1976]

I find it funny that after all the shows we have watched start and die on Syfy that only Shaved and I can see fit to project the demise (in detail) of this silly little show. Its not like you have nothing to work with. .

Oh, I think it will die, I just disagree with the course you project

 

[shavedape]

Oh, I think it will die, I just disagree with the course you project

Not being argumentative here, just curious what course you see that differs from the one OM1 and I and others have predicted and projected?

 

[Gatefan1976]

Not being argumentative here, just curious what course you see that differs from the one OM1 and I and others have predicted and projected?

Honestly, I think it will take longer than S1 for it to really start to swirl. I can't see it going below 1.7-8 in S1 no matter how crappy it is. I also wonder what will happen to it in S2. Will they get the game up to speed and drag more people in that way?.
What I really think though is that Syfy will be willing to carry it as a loss leader (moreso than other shows) simply because it does represent more than one income stream.
Do I think it deserves it? Not at all. The characters are becoming more interesting, but they are interesting in the same way Rush was interesting in SGU, and a few *subjectively* good characters is not gonna make it interesting enough for the GP.

 

[YJ02]

Oh, I think it will die, I just disagree with the course you project

I think it will die as well-but my instinct tells me that the crap we are viewing is what the new syfy viewer (the ones the execs think they want) wants to see

What the hell was that crap last night? It just gets worse and worse

Is it me or are they trying to create a "Starbuck like" character with the red haired chic? Girl with a gun,ass kicker, knife play, orphaned (starbuck was mainly an orphan) and in to frenetic sex. And the bit with people begining to call this chic "your special--you are meant to do great things" blah blah blah

And the record playing--we barely have vinyl records in existence now--how is it they survive till then? I can half buy the car thing but something as fragile as a record that are little but trash now except for some collector's items--I don't think The Cure is a collector's bit.

There is something about this show-that along with all of the other "reminds me off..." -that also reminds me of that 90's show that was set in an Alaskan town-with the moose in the street? I never really watched it-but something about how these people act reminds me of how those characters acted--can't quite reach it though.

I am going to pretend I really really like it and see if it goes down any better

and for those of you not watching it "live" and hence no commercials--an example of just how committed the sponsors are to this thing--AXE and DODGE are the only ones I have seen so far with defiance themed commercials

enjoy:

 

[shavedape]

Honestly, I think it will take longer than S1 for it to really start to swirl. I can't see it going below 1.7-8 in S1 no matter how crappy it is. I also wonder what will happen to it in S2. Will they get the game up to speed and drag more people in that way?.
What I really think though is that Syfy will be willing to carry it as a loss leader (moreso than other shows) simply because it does represent more than one income stream.
Do I think it deserves it? Not at all. The characters are becoming more interesting, but they are interesting in the same way Rush was interesting in SGU, and a few *subjectively* good characters is not gonna make it interesting enough for the GP.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your ratings predictions. I, too, think the numbers won't drop lower than what you've listed within season 1. They may even level out and remain at a certain percentage, but in the long run that number simply won't be enough to maintain the production values necessary to keep this pig alive. It is live action so that is costly, plus the cast is rather large. Plus there's the cost of not just regular sets but location shooting for every episode. Plus there is the cost of make up and costuming, which gets to be a bit involved since there are numerous alien species that have to be "done up" each episode. Plus there's the cost of the SFX and the CGI in every episode.

So even if DEFIANCE posts numbers around 2 million for this season and the next it will end up being cost prohibitive to produce. And as loss leaders go this is a hell of a lot of money to lose just to get people to watch SyFy or buy the game. (Wasn't the number $70 million mentioned as the cost to develop the game? That's no small change.)
--- merged: May 14, 2013 at 5:17 PM ---

I think it will die as well-but my instinct tells me that the crap we are viewing is what the new syfy viewer (the ones the execs think they want) wants to see

What the hell was that crap last night? It just gets worse and worse

Is it me or are they trying to create a "Starbuck like" character with the red haired chic? Girl with a gun,ass kicker, knife play, orphaned (starbuck was mainly an orphan) and in to frenetic sex. And the bit with people begining to call this chic "your special--you are meant to do great things" blah blah blah

And the record playing--we barely have vinyl records in existence now--how is it they survive till then? I can half buy the car thing but something as fragile as a record that are little but trash now except for some collector's items--I don't think The Cure is a collector's bit.

There is something about this show-that along with all of the other "reminds me off..." -that also reminds me of that 90's show that was set in an Alaskan town-with the moose in the street? I never really watched it-but something about how these people act reminds me of how those characters acted--can't quite reach it though.

I am going to pretend I really really like it and see if it goes down any better

and for those of you not watching it "live" and hence no commercials--an example of just how committed the sponsors are to this thing--AXE and DODGE are the only ones I have seen so far with defiance themed commercials

enjoy:

I agree with all of what you said, but just have to point out how truly ridiculous the vinyl-spinning hipster alien teen boy is. They can't honestly expect us to believe that an alien who came from halfway across the galaxy (they made mention of it in this episode) would look human and would act human, etc. Plus the fact that they had him play The Cure, which matches his emo look, was just so damn lame!

I'm thinking there has to be some sort of human retro-fitting that they did for the aliens when they arrived here, or something like that, because there's just no other rationale for having these aliens act and look human. But alas, we have to wait to find out what the back story is, which as I've said before, is this shows Achilles heel.

 

[Gatefan1976]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your ratings predictions. I, too, think the numbers won't drop lower than what you've listed within season 1. They may even level out and remain at a certain percentage, but in the long run that number simply won't be enough to maintain the production values necessary to keep this pig alive. It is live action so that is costly, plus the cast is rather large. Plus there's the cost of not just regular sets but location shooting for every episode. Plus there is the cost of make up and costuming, which gets to be a bit involved since there are numerous alien species that have to be "done up" each episode. Plus there's the cost of the SFX and the CGI in every episode.

So even if DEFIANCE posts numbers around 2 million for this season and the next it will end up being cost prohibitive to produce. And as loss leaders go this is a hell of a lot of money to lose just to get people to watch SyFy or buy the game. (Wasn't the number $70 million mentioned as the cost to develop the game? That's no small change.)

In the grand scheme of things it really is "chump change"
From Comcast:http://news.investors.com/technolog...ng-in-programming-to-boost-ratings.htm?p=full

It's things like that that make me think that they will keep this broken nag in the race, there is just so much money not directly tied to the show that it can use to pay for it. Cable subcriptions, internet subscriptions, game sales, secondary onselling of rights to air via ITunes/Netflix etc.
Normally that would not mean much to a network like Syfy, but in this case because of its broad reach across the entire Comcast network, I think they will milk it dry, hell, they could all but write of the say 40m to produce the damn show as advertising!

 

[Joelist]

Well, the last episode was a little better if only because we got a dribble of backstory information. Seems that things are more civilized to the east of defiance and that there are at least two major governments out there (Earth Republic and Votaris Collective). They also explained the money (script) albeit briefly - it is issued by both of the two governments which is why they both honor it.

On the other hand, the story was dopey and the villain dopier. And yes Irisa is a bit annoying - and now a skank to boot. The whole "character of destiny" trope gets annoying and is way overused in these shows. As to the whole "aliens acting like humans" problem, I would put it two ways. Remember they have been here over 30 years and many of them now are Earth born. But by the same standard many of the humans were born after arkfall and such. We really should be seeing a culture emerging with elements of both humans and whichever Votan races are around blended together. So both aliens adopting more human mannerisms and the reverse as well. Having only the first makes little sense.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Well, the last episode was a little better if only because we got a dribble of backstory information. Seems that things are more civilized to the east of defiance and that there are at least two major governments out there (Earth Republic and Votaris Collective). They also explained the money (script) albeit briefly - it is issued by both of the two governments which is why they both honor it.

On the other hand, the story was dopey and the villain dopier. And yes Irisa is a bit annoying - and now a skank to boot. The whole "character of destiny" trope gets annoying and is way overused in these shows. As to the whole "aliens acting like humans" problem, I would put it two ways. Remember they have been here over 30 years and many of them now are Earth born. But by the same standard many of the humans were born after arkfall and such. We really should be seeing a culture emerging with elements of both humans and whichever Votan races are around blended together. So both aliens adopting more human mannerisms and the reverse as well. Having only the first makes little sense.

Isn't that what a place like defiance is "supposed" to be about?

 

[Overmind One]

Wait...did they REALLY open with "Ride Captain Ride" from American rock band Blues Image? From the 1970s??? One of these writers has spent too much time in the wayback machine. First the 1970s convertible, and now this? . How could an alien from centuries in the future appreciate that song, and why would he play it and why is Defiance broadcasting a music station from the highest point in the town???

I had to pause it. Im watching it on Syfy Rewind (THANK YOU, Syfy! Its great. ), but this show just grates me. Ill come back to it after I eat.
--- merged: May 14, 2013 at 10:17 PM ---
OMG, are they really gonna try and do a stagecoach thing in this? "Land Coach"? And again, the plot device in this is MONEY, which should not exist at all in this future, nor should there be rival settlements. . I want to like something about this show. But...well, the top 5 things I like about this show are:

1. -
2. -
3. -
4. -
5. -

--- merged: May 14, 2013 at 10:26 PM ---
Now in the stagecoach...er, "Land Coach", and we get shaky cam via jouncy stagecoach ride. All that was missing was the clippity clop of the horses.

 

[Overmind One]

Excuse me. I buried this show during the pilot.

Im watching this last episode....sucks.

Who is gonna win the Crystal Ball?
--- merged: May 14, 2013 at 10:37 PM ---
This "shtako" thing is never gonna catch on like "frak" did. It is not even fun to say. Sounds like ordering a special sushi.

 

[Overmind One]

Dear Trion/Syfy:

I would like to formally (and respectfully) request approximately 45 minutes of my life-force back. I have lived long and worked very hard for it. I just expended 45 minutes of this precious resource watching your Defiance show. I appreciate your Rewind service, but that is no different than pouring a glass of cyanide-laced Kool Aid and putting it in the fridge for the next day. You may make a direct transfer of this life-force by deducting it from the lifetime of this show.

Regards,

Overmind One

 

[Joelist]

Isn't that what a place like defiance is "supposed" to be about?

Yes. But they aren't doing it that way. The Votan races are adopting human customs but the reverse is not happening.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Yes. But they aren't doing it that way. The Votan races are adopting human customs but the reverse is not happening.

What a pile of Shtako............

 

[Backstep]

What a pile of Shtako............

With another drop in ratings, it's heading for the 'S' bend

 

[shavedape]

1.98 million for the most recent episode. Nope, no ratings trend happening here.