Star Trek VOY: General Discussion Thread

[Joelist]

I think they basically wrote Fury to give the Kes character what they felt was a better sendoff than bursting into flames (which was more or less what happened in "The Gift" - she basically exploded). And in that context I understand it.

The overall thing is, Voyager changed its showrunners at the end of Season Two and the new crew rapidly refashioned the show starting in S3, turning a "meh" entry into probably the best Star Trek series after TOS and cementing Janeway as the #1 Captain.

 

[Overmind One]

I think they basically wrote Fury to give the Kes character what they felt was a better sendoff than bursting into flames (which was more or less what happened in "The Gift" - she basically exploded). And in that context I understand it.

The overall thing is, Voyager changed its showrunners at the end of Season Two and the new crew rapidly refashioned the show starting in S3, turning a "meh" entry into probably the best Star Trek series after TOS and cementing Janeway as the #1 Captain.

A "do-over"? I did not like it, and it seemed more like the actress wanted to get one last episode in there. Her firing (Jennifer Lien) was fired without warning, and it was even called "brutal" by some:

http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/22631-why-was-jennifer-lien-fired.html

http://trekweb.com/articles/2010/08...oyager-Talks-About-Kes-Farewell-in-Fury.shtml

It has been said she quit too. But one look at Jeri Ryan tells the real story. Kes was being shitcanned for the hot busty Borg to bring the ratings back up. Kes was not a favorite character for the fans by any means.

 

[Overmind One]

Re Season 3, I believe it was those showrunners who dumped Kes for Seven of Nine. Each Trek series had one female "hottie" in it at least. Voyager was missing that until Seven came along. I think Kes was supposed to be it, but I did not think of her as hot at all because of her being two years old, and that pixie haircut and overall elven look.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Re Season 3, I believe it was those showrunners who dumped Kes for Seven of Nine. Each Trek series had one female "hottie" in it at least. Voyager was missing that until Seven came along. I think Kes was supposed to be it, but I did not think of her as hot at all because of her being two years old, and that pixie haircut and overall elven look.

They could have done without Kes and Seven. SG-1 didn't have eye-candy to keep its fans glued to the series. Neither did SGA. Occasionally they did but the operative word here is "occasionally". Voyager could have done just fine with Kes the magical fairy or Seven the big-boobed wonder.

 

[Gatefan1976]

If you are talking Eye Candy, Teyla was all the Eye Candy I needed

 

[Bluce Ree]

If you are talking Eye Candy, Teyla was all the Eye Candy I needed

Yeah but it wasn't over the top with Teyla. They didn't pad her boobs out to a DD, didn't excessively flash her curves or dress her up in a body suit that might as well just be body paint. SGA also didn't set up tons of episodes that put Tayla in sexually charged situations. They did that plenty with Seven and they also padded her boobs and put her in a "leave nothing to the imagination" body suit.

http://www.afterellen.com/blog/scribegrrrl/janeway-seven-picardo-interview

Voyager started a useless trend to introduce pointless sexual elements to reel in fanboy wankers. This trend spilled over into ST: Enterprise with T'Pol's padding her already huge silicone endowments out to EEs and those useless "decontamination chamber" scenes where they would inevitably end an episode oiling each other's half-naked bodies under soft blue lighting.

Mixing soft porn with sci-fi is nothing but a means to cover up shit writing. Enterprise ended on a sour note because of it and even having T'Pol serve on the ship topless full-time wouldn't have kept the ratings high for any lengthy period of time. Even the numbers don't make sense. If we assume 50% are sci-fi fans and 50% are fanboys tuning in to watch T'Pol serve topless as first officer, most of the fanboy audience would change the channel about 2 minutes into the show, after rubbing one out, and the sci-fi fans would tune out from sheer boredom. Even hardcore fans who only wanna see T'Pol will realize, within minutes, they can turn off the TV, flip on their laptops and do the one-handed shuffle on any number of porn sites.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Yeah but it wasn't over the top with Teyla. They didn't pad her boobs out to a DD, didn't excessively flash her curves or dress her up in a body suit that might as well just be body paint. SGA also didn't set up tons of episodes that put Tayla in sexually charged situations. They did that plenty with Seven and they also padded her boobs and put her in a "leave nothing to the imagination" body suit.

Thats *exactly* why I liked Teyla dude

 

[Overmind One]

They could have done without Kes and Seven. SG-1 didn't have eye-candy to keep its fans glued to the series. Neither did SGA. Occasionally they did but the operative word here is "occasionally". Voyager could have done just fine with Kes the magical fairy or Seven the big-boobed wonder.

I strongly disagree. Voyager's ratings were helped IMMENSELY by the addition of Seven of Nine. Kes had no such effect.

 

[Bluce Ree]

I strongly disagree. Voyager's ratings were helped IMMENSELY by the addition of Seven of Nine. Kes had no such effect.

I think it was a combination of dumping Kes and adding Seven. Kes, and the Ocampa in general, felt like they added fairies to the show. It was moronic. Voyager as a whole didn't attract me except when they had really well written stories. "Year of Hell" was a story line I really enjoyed. I also liked their encounters with the Borg, Species 8472 and the introduction of the liquid universe, the Hirogen and their communications network, the Voyager clone, and some others. Episodes that focused too much on Seven bored me to death.

Voyager fared better because the writing improved despite adding the unnecessary eye-candy. They could have added Seven without the spandex body suit and the padded DDs and it still would have done well, maybe better since they wouldn't have focused so much on her assets.

Enterprise went overboard with the sexual element and failed horribly. Boobs and oil rubdowns under blue light could not fix the terrible writing.

 

[YJ02]

They could have done without Kes and Seven. SG-1 didn't have eye-candy to keep its fans glued to the series. Neither did SGA. Occasionally they did but the operative word here is "occasionally". Voyager could have done just fine with Kes the magical fairy or Seven the big-boobed wonder.

one attraction sg1 did use--I HAVE NO IDEA if they did it intentionally or not-was how often an episode delved into a near gun show commercial-some with weapons specs and all. Some guys get pretty 'excited' about guns, especially if there is a female involved.

the only ones on sg1 i would consider as any type of eye candy would be Vanessa Angel's character and Jolene Blalocks appearances.

 

[Joelist]

It also helped that Jeri Ryan turned out to be a better actress than Jennifer Lien. And of course the whole Seven character was better thought out than that of Kes. Seven let them storytell from an outsider perspective which helped a lot.

 

[Gatefan1976]

It also helped that Jeri Ryan turned out to be a better actress than Jennifer Lien. And of course the whole Seven character was better thought out than that of Kes. Seven let them storytell from an outsider perspective which helped a lot.

Kes had the potential to do that as well, but they stuck her as an "add on" to Neelix right from the get go. Seven was better at it because she was totally independant from the start and the times they do put her in "personal situations" she tends to deal with them *as* an outsider (like Harry's infactuation with her) as opposed to the whole Paris/Neelix/Kes triangle.

 

[Joelist]

Kes was written too much like a waif for it to work. In Season 3 they did try to make her work in that type of role by having her break up with Neelix and giving her darker stories. Didn't work so Kes was out and a much stronger character in Seven was in.

 

[Overmind One]

Kes was written too much like a waif for it to work. In Season 3 they did try to make her work in that type of role by having her break up with Neelix and giving her darker stories. Didn't work so Kes was out and a much stronger character in Seven was in.

THIS. She came off as a pre-pubescent girl instead of a woman. To me, that is what made her seem creepy as Neelix's love interest. Not only did it not work, but I sorta did not WANT it to work.
--- merged: Mar 11, 2013 at 7:35 PM ---

I think it was a combination of dumping Kes and adding Seven. Kes, and the Ocampa in general, felt like they added fairies to the show. It was moronic. Voyager as a whole didn't attract me except when they had really well written stories. "Year of Hell" was a story line I really enjoyed. I also liked their encounters with the Borg, Species 8472 and the introduction of the liquid universe, the Hirogen and their communications network, the Voyager clone, and some others. Episodes that focused too much on Seven bored me to death.

Totally agree with bolded. That was the turning point. When Seven came along, we had a mini arc built into her. Her journey from Drone to Human was a story in itself. It continued until the very last episode, culminating in her hooking up with Chakotay. But lets be honest, Jeri and her "assets" were very much a part of her character. Hated the silver and brown suits they gave her, but loved it when they toned it down to the blue.

Voyager fared better because the writing improved despite adding the unnecessary eye-candy. They could have added Seven without the spandex body suit and the padded DDs and it still would have done well, maybe better since they wouldn't have focused so much on her assets.

I am pretty certain that part of Seven's character was her DDs and those tight suits. I am certain that the writers wanted her to have those extreme assets and wrote them into her character from the beginning. Thing is, Jeri is a pretty good actress! She was so engaging, that sometimes (most of the time after Season 5) became secondary to her dialogue and her character. IMHO.

Enterprise went overboard with the sexual element and failed horribly. Boobs and oil rubdowns under blue light could not fix the terrible writing.

They chose the wrong character to be the sexpot. A Vulcan? Really? They could have had an Orion woman or perhaps even an Andorian female. Or, just a hot human female. But a VULCAN? Cant do that...no matter how much of a rebel she was to her people. She would have been pulled from service by her own people for her disgrace of Logic. Enterprise was my SGU for Trek. I still do not count it as canon completely. I like to think of it as having taken place in an alternate Trek timeline. One where the theme song does not have to be an orchestral anthem...just a dumb soft rock song with vocals. That seems trivial, yes. But also the first two seasons the title of the show did not include "Star Trek" in the titles. Fans made them change it.

 

[Gatefan1976]

THIS. She came off as a pre-pubescent girl instead of a woman. To me, that is what made her seem creepy as Neelix's love interest. Not only did it not work, but I sorta did not WANT it to work.

For the sake of repeating myself, this is the main reason Kes did not work, it would be like hooking up with honey boo-boo and expecting the viewing US audience to buy it, not bloody likely.

Totally agree with bolded. That was the turning point. When Seven came along, we had a mini arc built into her. Her journey from Drone to Human was a story in itself. It continued until the very last episode, culminating in her hooking up with Chakotay.

It WAS the story of Seven, more than anything else.

But lets be honest, Jeri and her "assets" were very much a part of her character. Hated the silver and brown suits they gave her, but loved it when they toned it down to the blue.

So, when she was less of a sex object and more of a character then?

I am pretty certain that part of Seven's character was her DDs and those tight suits. I am certain that the writers wanted her to have those extreme assets and wrote them into her character from the beginning.

she shagged for the job, I'm sure they were very much "front and centre" in the dicision to hire her.
HOWEVER:

Thing is, Jeri is a pretty good actress! She was so engaging, that sometimes (most of the time after Season 5) became secondary to her dialogue and her character. IMHO.

Quite right. She made the character work dispite the origins and the in your face norks. If you want to see her in a different role, see her in the series "shark" (you like Boston Legal, so you may like it as well)

 

[Joelist]

Ehhh....I'd be a bit careful about insinuating an actress prostituted herself to get a role. It's very insulting.

Jeri Ryan already had her acting bona fides before being cast on Voyager. She had done a number of supporting roles and was one of the regulars of the short lived "Dark Skies" series - one reason she was able to come to Voyager was the cancellation of Dark Skies.

As to the role itself, one interesting thing is that in spite of the catsuit the writers never really put Seven into "sexy" situations. Up until the finale she never had a romance and while she did develop friendships earlier (Tuvok and Janeway) it was very platonic in nature. And it worked - that way of playing the character gave her a "different-ness" that made her stand out.

 

[Overmind One]

Ehhh....I'd be a bit careful about insinuating an actress prostituted herself to get a role. It's very insulting.

Jeri Ryan already had her acting bona fides before being cast on Voyager. She had done a number of supporting roles and was one of the regulars of the short lived "Dark Skies" series - one reason she was able to come to Voyager was the cancellation of Dark Skies.

As to the role itself, one interesting thing is that in spite of the catsuit the writers never really put Seven into "sexy" situations. Up until the finale she never had a romance and while she did develop friendships earlier (Tuvok and Janeway) it was very platonic in nature. And it worked - that way of playing the character gave her a "different-ness" that made her stand out.

I know the second statement is true, but I have also heard dark rumors about the first comment.

 

[Joelist]

I admit my gut reaction to rumors is to disregard them - and the more salacious the more I tend to do so.
--- merged: Mar 11, 2013 at 9:12 PM ---
Getting to a different topic than the catsuit or how someone landed a role, it really is interesting when you look at the surgery performed on Voyager at the start of Season 3 (I tried to look the changes in the production team up and it seems the big one was Jeri Taylor taking over as head of the writing team - somewhere in this timeline Brannon Braga came in as well). Whoever it was, look at the changes that were done - in pretty fast sequence no less:

1) Kazon written out of the show

2) Kes and Neelix relationship ended

3) Character of Neelix put more in the background

4) More screen time for the Doctor

5) Kes character put in darker roles

Plus the overall writing got sharper and the pacing in the episodes was better. S3 has some good installments - Macrocosm for example is a really entertaining episode basically featuring Janeway alone; Coda is excellent, Darkling really shows off Robert Picardo's acting chops and worst Case Scenario is both funny and tense at the same time. Plus it ends with a very strong two parter - Scorpion where Janeway makes some highly questionable decisions in her desire to get her crew home.

 

[Bluce Ree]

THIS. She came off as a pre-pubescent girl instead of a woman. To me, that is what made her seem creepy as Neelix's love interest. Not only did it not work, but I sorta did not WANT it to work.
--- merged: Mar 11, 2013 at 7:35 PM ---


Totally agree with bolded. That was the turning point. When Seven came along, we had a mini arc built into her. Her journey from Drone to Human was a story in itself. It continued until the very last episode, culminating in her hooking up with Chakotay. But lets be honest, Jeri and her "assets" were very much a part of her character. Hated the silver and brown suits they gave her, but loved it when they toned it down to the blue.



I am pretty certain that part of Seven's character was her DDs and those tight suits. I am certain that the writers wanted her to have those extreme assets and wrote them into her character from the beginning. Thing is, Jeri is a pretty good actress! She was so engaging, that sometimes (most of the time after Season 5) became secondary to her dialogue and her character. IMHO.

Jeri Ryan was a good enough actress to stand on her own without having to inflate her boobs or give her a skin suit. She's already well enough endowed. They really didn't need to go up 2 cups for wanker effect. Adding unnecessary eye-candy to a series to bolster ratings is one of my biggest pet peeves. If they had given Carter a massive boob job for her role, I probably would have skipped most of the series.

They chose the wrong character to be the sexpot. A Vulcan? Really? They could have had an Orion woman or perhaps even an Andorian female. Or, just a hot human female. But a VULCAN? Cant do that...no matter how much of a rebel she was to her people. She would have been pulled from service by her own people for her disgrace of Logic. Enterprise was my SGU for Trek. I still do not count it as canon completely. I like to think of it as having taken place in an alternate Trek timeline. One where the theme song does not have to be an orchestral anthem...just a dumb soft rock song with vocals. That seems trivial, yes. But also the first two seasons the title of the show did not include "Star Trek" in the titles. Fans made them change it.

We got some Orion boob in ST 2009 but it was short 'n sweet and totally fit the scene.

 

[mzzz]

Season 3 seems to be better so far. The technobabble's still annoying, sometimes less is more. Doctor's still the only character that's sorta non-bland to me. Glad baby mama drama Cardassian crap is gone.