Star Trek: Picard

[Overmind One]

yes, you must be back to the cat suit

seriously though, you dont remember all of the action scenes she was in?

fighting "the rock" (ratings pandering to wwf fans of time?)

Fighting in a ring is not the same as blazing through some chamber with dual pistols shooting whatever she was shooting. Also, that episode was an anomaly in the series. Hardly a definition of Seven as a character. I think she was at her best in The Raven episode.

 

[YJ02]

Fighting in a ring is not the same as blazing through some chamber with dual pistols shooting whatever she was shooting.

you're right

having weapons makes it much easier

 

[YJ02]

Spoken like a true drone. Of course it isn't ACTUAL Star Trek. But it is Star Trek, and the fandom that has gathered around Star Trek is now gathering around The Orville because it is Star Trek. I know, it seems complicated. Try this: go to the store and buy a banana. You now own the banana. If you put it on a plate and call it a pomegranate then is it now a pomegranate because you say so? You OWN it. You paid for it, didn't you? You can name it what you want, right?

Banana lovers are going to love your "pomegranate". Pomegranate lovers, not so much. What does it say for the tiny little group of pomegranate lovers who just accept that the banana is now a pomegranate because you said it was? To me, it makes them idiots. Now, try it the other way around. you have a large group (fandom) of bananas, and you go and buy a pomegranate and name it a banana. You bought it, you OWN it. You call the shots, right? But the banana lovers see your "banana" and reject it because it isn't what they love. It isn't even really a banana. THIS IS THE SITUATION. Discovery is not Star Trek, even though it has the name Star Trek. The Orville is not Star Trek in name, but it is Star Trek.

Does this make any sense to you?

this is exactly the opposite of your argument against trans persons

they are man/woman, then feel they are the opposite and it is supposed to be because they say so,,,because their feelings tell them they are somehow not what they are

 

[YJ02]

David Gerrold

no, i am sorry but you are once again, incorrect

Gerrold was a story editor and writer, the lawyer was Leonard Maizlish

Per Gerrold working for roddenberry was hell, and Maizlish made it worse

Maizlish was caught going through writers desks and word processors and changing scripts, all the while saying he was acting per Roddenberry's instruction

he wasn't, and not being a member of the writer's guild, got himself into trouble. paramount barred him from their production facilities

besides being available at multiple on line sites, all of this is in the Shatner Doc - CHAOS ON THE BRIDGE

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/star-trek-writer-reveals-ugly-side-working-roddenberry-sci-fi-classic

 

[YJ02]

It is still 100% true that the FANS dictated and continue to dictate the fate of Star Trek, not it's owners. Same with Star Wars. No way around that fact.

if there is 'no way around that fact' and, as you say, Trek fans dictate Treks fate, then why is st-d going into its third season?

as dumb and bad as st-d is, it seems the 'fans' are not being heard. why? because THEY ARE NOT IN CONTROL

you,me, all of us, we get to choose to watch,or not, what the studios put out, THEY ARE IN CONTROL

and,apparently, it sees that studios dont much care for what the fans say--at least not us, the older fans

 

[YJ02]

the fans, protesting the announcement of 'new Trek' ,TNG to us.

So, would these fans, back then, have called you what we call the fans of Discovery?

because according to the TNG show runners and stars, 1980's trek fans were trying to dictate the future of trek back then by trying to stop TNG being made

 

[Overmind One]

this is exactly the opposite of your argument against trans persons

they are man/woman, then feel they are the opposite and it is supposed to be because they say so,,,because their feelings tell them they are somehow not what they are

Not at all a good comparison. I do not acknowledge that such a thing as being "trans" exists. I also do not insist that The Orville is actual Star Trek. I stated that very clearly. But the obvious resemblance between The Orville and Star Trek TNG is not assumed, it is an actual result of CBS rejecting Seth's Star Trek proposal which became The Orville. I have yet to see a male who I think is "obviously" a female trapped in a male body. I think the concept of trans is ridiculous. My feelings have little to do with the relationship between The Orville and Star Trek TNG. Seth intentionally made The Orville that way. I don't believe that The Orville is TNG trapped in a different show. . I do know that the popularity of The Orville is directly related to it's similarity to pre-fake Star Trek before the 2009 reboot.

 

[Overmind One]

no, i am sorry but you are once again, incorrect

Gerrold was a story editor and writer, the lawyer was Leonard Maizlish

Per Gerrold working for roddenberry was hell, and Maizlish made it worse

Maizlish was caught going through writers desks and word processors and changing scripts, all the while saying he was acting per Roddenberry's instruction

he wasn't, and not being a member of the writer's guild, got himself into trouble. paramount barred him from their production facilities

besides being available at multiple on line sites, all of this is in the Shatner Doc - CHAOS ON THE BRIDGE

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/star-trek-writer-reveals-ugly-side-working-roddenberry-sci-fi-classic

Verified.

https://trekmovie.com/2014/09/12/ex...nflicts-with-roddenberry-berman-jj-trek-more/

I really did not pay that much attention to that sort of stuff, but I did pay very close attention to the creatives and the ideas which were being developed for the show as the years went on. Gene Roddenberry wanted lots of things that if they had made it into the show, might have killed it.

 

[Overmind One]

the fans, protesting the announcement of 'new Trek' ,TNG to us.

So, would these fans, back then, have called you what we call the fans of Discovery?

because according to the TNG show runners and stars, 1980's trek fans were trying to dictate the future of trek back then by trying to stop TNG being made

I am in the group you are calling "the fans". I remember this, but those few were a small corner of the fandom. Just like the tiny corner of fans who like STD and the reboot movies. Yeah, they are in the fandom because many have been around since the beginning, but they are okay with the NuTrek nonsense which makes them a separate group within the Trek fandom. A tiny number. We are not a single bloc. The MAJORITY of the fandom were just happy to have Trek back. I actually was hating on the Enterprise 1701-D and thought it looked ridiculous. I wrote letters, demanded changes, you know me. But after Season 1, I started liking it. Then the blueprints came out and I became a fan.

The bottom line is that none of this "well, I started liking it" has happened for Discovery. Picard may strike that balance, and I am willing to give it a chance.

 

[Overmind One]

if there is 'no way around that fact' and, as you say, Trek fans dictate Treks fate, then why is st-d going into its third season?

It's because Kurtzman has a 5 year contract that must play out, that's why. Season 3 is severely cut back in terms of budget. It may even get a Season 4 and 5. Even so, that is not any sort of indication of success. You can put a turd on a doily and leave it out for people to see for decades. How does leaving it out there translate into success?

as dumb and bad as st-d is, it seems the 'fans' are not being heard. why? because THEY ARE NOT IN CONTROL

Yes, we are. If the show does not drive subscriptions and end up being a net positive for ViacomCBS, it will be canceled. Fans and consumers are ALWAYS in control, not just here but everywhere in all business models for every industry.

you,me, all of us, we get to choose to watch,or not, what the studios put out, THEY ARE IN CONTROL

and,apparently, it sees that studios dont much care for what the fans say--at least not us, the older fans

LOL, I find it funny that you really believe that. Without customers, fans and people spending money, studios fall. Businesses go broke, companies die. Do you think they are like trees and just grow in the sunlight and sustain themselves with water? Go tell this concept of yours to Toys R' Us, Blockbuster, General Foods, Sports Authority, and other companies who lost their customer base. Tell it to Disney whose customers are abandoning Star Wars in droves. Tell it to EA and Dice and Gillette whose customers are leaving so fast that their stocks are losing half their value in a matter of months.

 

[Joelist]

STD got a renewal (which was iffy till the last minute) because if they can it they are admitting that CBS AllAccess is a failure. Also they are not going to do anything that would admit the fan base was right.

 

[YJ02]

Gene Roddenberry wanted lots of things that if they had made it into the show, might have killed it.

yeah, like how after reading the script introducing Risa, he suggested it be portrayed as a place for homosexual escapades.

i think back at that time, it may well have killed it

 

[YJ02]

It's because Kurtzman has a 5 year contract that must play out, that's why. Season 3 is severely cut back in terms of budget. It may even get a Season 4 and 5. Even so, that is not any sort of indication of success. You can put a turd on a doily and leave it out for people to see for decades. How does leaving it out there translate into success?



Yes, we are. If the show does not drive subscriptions and end up being a net positive for ViacomCBS, it will be canceled. Fans and consumers are ALWAYS in control, not just here but everywhere in all business models for every industry.



LOL, I find it funny that you really believe that. Without customers, fans and people spending money, studios fall. Businesses go broke, companies die. Do you think they are like trees and just grow in the sunlight and sustain themselves with water? Go tell this concept of yours to Toys R' Us, Blockbuster, General Foods, Sports Authority, and other companies who lost their customer base. Tell it to Disney whose customers are abandoning Star Wars in droves. Tell it to EA and Dice and Gillette whose customers are leaving so fast that their stocks are losing half their value in a matter of months.

you really sound like a child here

"i want it this way and if i dont get it, i am going to hold my breath!"

did you not read? apparently, no

i said, we are not in control of what they put out BEFORE IT AIRS- the whole nature of this argument here-how it started.

you are trying to destroy a show before it airs

after it airs, and it sucks, then yes, the fans MAY have some control, but in these days of guaranteed 2nd seasons, I wouldn't hold my breath that we would be listened to

all the example you gave are example of what happened after the product/ad campaign came out- not before

do you not see how you have been 'judging and pre condemning' this show,and others, FAR before they are released based on a few minutes of footage?

something totally different from your poor examples; toys r us and blockbuster went out after decades of being in business delivering the products THEY CHOSE TO SELL

they did not close down, or rather fail to open, based on ppl's reactions BEFORE their doors ever opened.
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notice how no one else is commenting any longer counter to your comments because they know it is a pointless task-- but unlike @Lord Ba'al and @Quetesh , I guess i am just a sucker for your "love and attention"

 

[Overmind One]

you really sound like a child here

And you sound like an idiot calling me a child.

"i want it this way and if i dont get it, i am going to hold my breath!"

did you not read? apparently, no

i said, we are not in control of what they put out BEFORE IT AIRS- the whole nature of this argument here-how it started.

you are trying to destroy a show before it airs

How can one insignificant person destroy a series? I can't. But I know that thousands, perhaps millions are out there feeling the exact same way. I keep my finger on the pulse of the fandom, of blogs, opinions from both sides of the critical sphere. On one hand, we have the excited folks who are watching only the trailers, commenting on the media articles which are being published for the masses to hype the show. On the other hand, we have the hardcore fandom like those who are attending the Conventions, writing the blog articles and making YouTube videos exposing the things about the shows that the shill media takes great pains to conceal. I talk to people inside the Industry who tell me things that aren't published, and then I form my individual, one-man opinion. I hardly think that I can destroy a show with it.

after it airs, and it sucks, then yes, the fans MAY have some control, but in these days of guaranteed 2nd seasons, I wouldn't hold my breath that we would be listened to

all the example you gave are example of what happened after the product/ad campaign came out- not before

Why are you equating the presence of something with success? Who cares if it is on the air if nobody is watching it? Discovery was a complete and utter viewership FAIL using metrics alone. Industry insiders have revealed that toy and merchandise licensees are not interested in Discovery, and the proof of that is the absence of merch for that show on store shelves. You see the older series toys being re-published, but not STD. In case you failed to notice, there is no outside licensee deal for Picard toys yet. Netflix rejected Picard, which is why it is on Amazon. And still, at every step of the way, the fans are in control of it's fate. If they don't watch, airing it is a waste of money and they will cancel or change it. Just like they changed Discovery.

do you not see how you have been 'judging and pre condemning' this show,and others, FAR before they are released based on a few minutes of footage?

something totally different from your poor examples; toys r us and blockbuster went out after decades of being in business delivering the products THEY CHOSE TO SELL

they did not close down, or rather fail to open, based on ppl's reactions BEFORE their doors ever opened.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
notice how no one else is commenting any longer counter to your comments because they know it is a pointless task-- but unlike @Lord Ba'al and @Quetesh , I guess i am just a sucker for your "love and attention"

I have the right to give my opinions, and that's all they are. I do not tow anybody's line here or in real life. I am independent. And I also do not swallow the shill swill out out by the media, because I know lots of it are lies or misdirection. Don't forget, I work in the Industry right now and have been for almost two years now. I have friends who work in the other studios, and they have friends who know stuff.

Why would you or anyone give so much weight to my little old individual opinion? You could just ignore my rambling, but instead you want to try and shush me. That is what Cancel Culture is all about. Shutting down dissent and closing the argument.

 

[YJ02]

moving on.....

romulus is gone, due to super nova

so why didn't the romulans evacuate their system a long time ago, like before even the time of ST ENTERPRISE or earlier

isn't a supernova caused by a dead star? so how did this 'sneak up' on them?

or was it caused by them? cause we know how Romulans love to F'ck with everything

 

[YJ02]

another perspective on the trailers.

"17 details everyone missed"

some interesting speculation.. personally, i am hoping the dead guy 7 is holding is Chakotay

but since Beltran is an old crusty bastard now, probably not him ->->->

maybe its another important person to 7? like,maybe, him ->-> ->

 

[YJ02]

Think what you want, but since you are not a Star Trek fan to the degree that most of the Star Trek fanbase is, you may never understand why the Star Trek fandom hates fake Star Trek which bought the name but isn't Star Trek, but loves the show which is actually Star Trek but is named The Orville because CBS refused to pay Seth to create the new Star Trek show which he presented to them before Kurtzman got involved. Seth McFarlane wrote the show now named The Orville as the new Star Trek show that CBS could have had if Kurtzman had not stolen the job by way of his relationship with Paramount. If that had not happened, then The Orville would have been the new Star Trek show that came out for CBS All Access instead of Discovery. The Orville is an homage to Star Trek. It was not trying to be something completely different.

You are technically correct: The Orville is not Star Trek. But viscerally, you couldn't be more wrong.

View attachment 35362

if mcfarlane or anyone else, came out with a show with star trek in its name, that was a comedy-drama, set in space, as is the orville, you would destroy it

 

[Overmind One]

No, that is not true, you may not want it to be true, but the owners of the show are the owners and what they create becomes canon. Fans don't get to dictate that.

It is insulting to be called a casual fan just for you to win your point!! I have watched the shows and movies my whole life, as has the hubby, many many many times. I am just realistic in the way canon works.

Crappy canon is still canon.

Fans determine what makes or breaks a show, franchise, movie, or any commercial media product. Give them what they like and they buy it. Fail to do that, and you become irrelevant and lose money. Disney is learning that very expensive lesson as I write this with the failure of Galaxy's Edge in both Disney theme parks. The CW is learning quickly that a twisted, feminist woke version of Batman/Batwoman does not have an audience sufficient enough to maintain the reason for it to exist. Star Trek Discovery has even fewer viewers than the 1970's animated series did, and unless CBS All Access can afford to produce it without it performing, then it is going to fade away.

How about I make a prediction today that Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker will make less money than The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. I base that on the negative fan response to the trailers, the disjointed and shallow Disney Star Wars sequel trilogy, and the overall apathy to it. All of this is because Disney took Star wars and changed it into something else that the fans don't want.

The Orville is the Star Trek show that Star Trek fans were looking for, but it isn't Star Trek, it's the Orville. It is as if the spirit of Star Trek transferred to The Orville and that show will be carrying the torch for Roddenberry's vision, even though Roddenberry never lived to see it. Discovery is a completely different thing from Star Trek, even though it is officially Star Trek. If the fans do not accept NuTrek as Star Trek, it won't be head canon no matter what they want it to be. And the fans will just ignore it. So, yeah, these dumb new Star Trek shows are canon unto themselves, but they are not part of the original canon ending with Nemesis. Let's see what they do with Picard, since they now have access to the original license. If it isn't a recognizable Picard, then the fans will not like the show. If it is good, the show will succeed. It's pretty straightforward.

 

[Overmind One]

if mcfarlane or anyone else, came out with a show with star trek in its name, that was a comedy-drama, set in space, as is the orville, you would destroy it

Why would I destroy it? To me it is Star Trek reincarnated. I loved it when it really was just a comedy-drama for Season 1. But now it is moving into scifi territory.

 

[Atlantis]