Its actually his brother.
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds
- Thread starter Joelist
- Start date
Lord Ba'al
Well Known GateFan
Is there something inherently wrong with Kirks that you don't like them?
Lord Ba'al
Well Known GateFan
For real? I didn't know he had a brother.
From Wikipedia (for James T. Kirk):
James Kirk's brother, George Samuel Kirk, is first mentioned in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" and introduced and killed in "Operation: Annihilate!", leaving behind three children.
View: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_T._Kirk
I'm totally with you on this. I do not consider Strange New Worlds to be either canon or truly Star Trek. It is a hard reboot created to erase TOS and rewrite everything to match the NuTrek universe. It is firmly tied to Discovery, and therefore cannot be canon. It looks much better than DSC and Picard in terms of looking Trek-like, but that is where things end. Everything is different and nothing is original. BUT, it's a prequel? That is intentional.
My stance is this: Fans who give praise to this show and watch it are sealing the fate of original Star Trek (tone, look, feel, writing, established characters and canon). It is giving a pass to the interloper. It is collaboration. Yet, right now many longtime fans are being fooled by the episodic format and memberberries and ignoring why the show is set when it is on the timeline. Its like having a burglar break into your home, and then the victim complimenting him on his outfit.
Okay, I will see if I can merge them.
Quetesh
Well Known GateFan
No, I just feel like it would have been nicer not to have a Kirk on the ship yet since this show really should revolve around the "period of Pike".
Hey Shadow Mann! Hope you are well!
IMHO more than just looks improved here so far. SNW has an overall optimistic tone and exploratory feel both of which were key components of TOS. STD and Picard are dark, angsty, soapy, bloody by comparison and this tonal problem is a KEY reason why they are not Trek. And yes the episodic layout is an improvement too because it helps the show keep its brighter outlook overall.
Other improvements include a cast with WAY more charisma than either STD or Picard. In Picard the only cast members who in any way had screen presence were Patrick Stewart and John DeLancie - the terrible way Jeri Ryan is written is wasting her charisma. On STD NO ONE has anything approaching likability or charisma. On SNW most of the cast actually does possess some level of charisma.
Now SNW is FAR from perfect. It's had some cringe moments especially in episode one, the Chapel character needs to be ejected into space and the Uhura character oddly feels more like Hoshi Sato. So it IS an improvement and an improvement in the main areas the fans have been complaining about.
Is it a reboot? I posted thoughts on Twitter about why in my opinion it really can't be one. If they do in any way alter Pike's future then this is not in the Prime timeline. Pike's crippling was an essential event in that timeline - note in the Kelvinverse the changes to history caused by Nero had the same effect as Pike was not crippled in that timeline. So I am not as concerned as you are about any erasure of TOS et al.
IMHO more than just looks improved here so far. SNW has an overall optimistic tone and exploratory feel both of which were key components of TOS. STD and Picard are dark, angsty, soapy, bloody by comparison and this tonal problem is a KEY reason why they are not Trek. And yes the episodic layout is an improvement too because it helps the show keep its brighter outlook overall.
Other improvements include a cast with WAY more charisma than either STD or Picard. In Picard the only cast members who in any way had screen presence were Patrick Stewart and John DeLancie - the terrible way Jeri Ryan is written is wasting her charisma. On STD NO ONE has anything approaching likability or charisma. On SNW most of the cast actually does possess some level of charisma.
Now SNW is FAR from perfect. It's had some cringe moments especially in episode one, the Chapel character needs to be ejected into space and the Uhura character oddly feels more like Hoshi Sato. So it IS an improvement and an improvement in the main areas the fans have been complaining about.
Is it a reboot? I posted thoughts on Twitter about why in my opinion it really can't be one. If they do in any way alter Pike's future then this is not in the Prime timeline. Pike's crippling was an essential event in that timeline - note in the Kelvinverse the changes to history caused by Nero had the same effect as Pike was not crippled in that timeline. So I am not as concerned as you are about any erasure of TOS et al.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
no. its always, even in this new show "when a warp signature has been detected"
i know other methods of FTL travel exist! my question is, the criteria for searching to make first contact by starfleet/ fed/vulcans is a limited criteria that only uses warp signatures == so, they are self isolating from so many other highly advanced civilizations out there
not good for science, exploration or security
Strange New Worlds is not going to get a pass from me just because they cleaned the poo off the pig.
Lord Ba'al
Well Known GateFan
My reason for having a separate thread is that I want the thread name to match the official show name, which in this case is "Star Trek: Strange New Worlds". If you're willing to rename this thread as such, then by all means merge my thread in here.
Lord Ba'al
Well Known GateFan
Hmmm... maybe they don't want to mingle with those species that developed other means of FTL travel because they feel those are too advanced compared to themselves? Vulcans really aren't that technologically advanced in the grand scheme of Star Trek. Basically the human race is at the same technological level by the time of TNG, and perhaps also TOS. But like Vulcans are smart enough to realize that a species at their level of technology mingling with a lesser advanced species (no warp drive) could lead to disaster, they are surely also smart enough to realize that them mingling with a more advanced species could lead to similar disasters. Or maybe they're just afraid of the unknown. They have been established as not being very keen on exploration, definitely in Star Trek: Enterprise. Or maybe they're just ignorant.
All merged and renamed! Remember some of the discussion may look a little disjointed as a result.
Lord Ba'al
Well Known GateFan
A quote from Pike I quite liked. Episode two.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
Okay, Episode 2 was still a mixed bag but it was better than Episode 1.
The Pros:
1) The Story was better. No wokeness involved in it and it posed interesting questions.
2) Anson Mount is still good as Pike
3) I still like the Noonien Singh character
4) Pacing improved - tonally still much more on point.
The cons:
1) This had some glib bridge dialogue which to me was unprofessional.
2) Chapel should be ejected out an airlock
3) I'm really not feeling the character of Kirk's brother
The strangeness:
1) Cadet Uhura - her characterization feels a lot more like Hoshi Sato than Uhura. Had they made her Asian and said she was a descendant of Hoshi she would fit in like a glove.
2) They are hinting more strongly that the series is heading for a place where Pike's future changes. If this is indeed true it has major ramifications for all of Kurtzman Trek as it puts ALL of it into an alt timeline and not the Prime one.
Warts and all, SNW is still BY FAR the best Kurtzman Trek show. It's the only one that tonally feels somewhat like Trek and has actual Trek style philosophical stories so far. It's not perfect and has warts including some cringe moments last episode and one cringey moment this episode but to not acknowledge progress would also not be fair.
The Pros:
1) The Story was better. No wokeness involved in it and it posed interesting questions.
2) Anson Mount is still good as Pike
3) I still like the Noonien Singh character
4) Pacing improved - tonally still much more on point.
The cons:
1) This had some glib bridge dialogue which to me was unprofessional.
2) Chapel should be ejected out an airlock
3) I'm really not feeling the character of Kirk's brother
The strangeness:
1) Cadet Uhura - her characterization feels a lot more like Hoshi Sato than Uhura. Had they made her Asian and said she was a descendant of Hoshi she would fit in like a glove.
2) They are hinting more strongly that the series is heading for a place where Pike's future changes. If this is indeed true it has major ramifications for all of Kurtzman Trek as it puts ALL of it into an alt timeline and not the Prime one.
Warts and all, SNW is still BY FAR the best Kurtzman Trek show. It's the only one that tonally feels somewhat like Trek and has actual Trek style philosophical stories so far. It's not perfect and has warts including some cringe moments last episode and one cringey moment this episode but to not acknowledge progress would also not be fair.
Lord Ba'al
Well Known GateFan
You can't be serious. Episode two was a week ago. Episode three airs today. Am I missing something here, or are you just joking?OMG!!!! SPOILERS!!!!!
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
how long ago did sarcasm leave your life... or is just a Belfast thing?
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
right now Pike is saying he believes he is going to die, we know that is not true, he survives, albeit not a very good survival
maybe that is the only change? complete death to barely living in a chair?
-----------------------
and Spock "singing"? hmm? and, if we were to go other forums I am sure we would see some there defend his laughing by pointing to Spock laughing in the first TOS episode "this was a period in his life when he did laugh"
revision/rewrite based on a script/character re-think from 55 yrs ago