Star Wars VII - The Force Awakens
- Thread starter Overmind One
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JJ's forte is action. These films, Star Wars and Star Trek are way WAY above his ability to pull them off. They gave him a blank check in both instances and he teased the hell out of both Star trek 2009 and Star Wars Ep VII, and to me the end result is the cinematic equivalent of tofu. Perhaps with a few berries tossed in. He has absolutely NO DEPTH whatsoever. He does not understand what the Force was supposed to represent, he only knows you can levitate stuff and do cool shit with it. In Star trek, he did not understand science so he just removed it altogether. He is a male airhead when it comes to anything intellectual. Even in fantasy, you still need to at least stick to the storyline.
- The Force is not part of the infrastructure. In JJ's Star Wars, it's like all you have to do is sign up for it.
- Rey's hero journey is not epic nor is it really purpose driven. She comes from a time where there is no overwhelming Empire dooming her future.
- The First Order should not even exist AT ALL, let alone have fleets of ships and a Starkiller
- Snoke...LOL. Not at all feeling foreboding or evil. Just angst.
- Kylo Ren is no Darth Vader and he needs to be in order to give the good guys a reason to fight. He's just a delinquent. It is worse that he is the child of Han and Leia, cause it reveals them to be horrible parents.
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Bluce Ree
Tech Admin / Council Member
Now listen here, young man. Just the fact that he's named Kylo Ren is enough to deserve a beating. Because he's mildly powerful, that beating must come in the form of a "resistance" movement (a.k.a. league of intergalactic bullies who will kick his ass for having a stupid name).
M'kay, so, are we going to lay odds on Rey and Ren turning out to be related? Cousins or some shit like that?
OMG, I just heard that "DING!" sound in my head.
. That usually means that something has suddenly become clear. They could even be brother and sister (to carry on the secret twinning thing). Leia will have to be the one who reveals this. I bet Han was not even there when Leia gave birth. Are they ever gonna explain why Han and Leia split up? Perhaps Rey was a second child which came after Han dumped Leia and she had the baby in secret then left her on that dumb planet? BTW, why isn't Leia a Jedi? Why can't she use the Force like...at all?
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
OMG, I just heard that "DING!" sound in my head.
BTW, why isn't Leia a Jedi? Why can't she use the Force like...at all?
I was doing my best not to think of a way for them to be brother and sister but then you just went ahead and did it.
You're probably spot on with how it will be explained. After all, they made a point of explaining that Rey was left on Jakuu (why wasn't it called Tattooine?) but they didn't give reasons as to why she was left there. So, basically, we have the set-up for some really bad writing to come. Yay.
To each their own. I liked it and felt it did its main jobs well. Got Star Wars movies running again, provided a jumping off point for the new characters (who were well played) and went a long way towards washing the stench of the prequels off of the franchise
Star Wars was not floundering (like Star Trek's movie franchise). JJ Abrams did not at all "come to the rescue" or "revive" Star Wars because it was never dead or floundering. Not sure what you mean by saying this got them running again. They would have been running earlier if the property was not being packaged for sale to Disney. I am certain Star Wars fans already knew there would be more episodes at some point. But my take on that is that they wanted a continuance of the story, not a rehash. We got a rehash, plus some new characters we did not need in the deal. I would have loved to see a whole new Sith Lord in the place of the departed Darth Vader. Not a dumb, teen knockoff of Darth Vader. Failing to explain how The First Order came to be is unforgivable. What sort of path would lead to a Captain Phasma in a post-Empire period? Why is there a Resistance? Why are the VICTORS of the Imperial War the resistance and hiding out from the First Order?
Why was the last film Return of the Jedi, yet there are no Jedi left in the Republic (evidently), and they have been gone long enough for Rey to think they are only a legend? Im over 50 and 30 years ago I remember distinctly what the world was like at age 20.
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
And I would add that if JJ. Abrams is such a Star Wars fan (as has been admitted) why would he have composed such a sloppy, derivative, lame story? (Yes, I know he wasn't alone in penning this movie.) Where is the fidelity to the beloved main characters? And why leave so much unexplained backstory???
I was doing my best not to think of a way for them to be brother and sister but then you just went ahead and did it.
You're probably spot on with how it will be explained. After all, they made a point of explaining that Rey was left on Jakuu (why wasn't it called Tattooine?) but they didn't give reasons as to why she was left there. So, basically, we have the set-up for some really bad writing to come. Yay.
Hmm...
Han and Leia get married after Return of the Jedi, then they have Ben (Kylo Ren) and Han decides he does not do Daddy Dearest well...he takes off.
Meanwhile, Leia discovers she is pregnant with Han's other kid (Rey). Since Han made a mess of Ben , who has decided he wants to be an angsty rebel, he avoids Leia. Leia dumps Rey on Jakuu to keep her away from that scoundrel baby daddy Han, and to protect her from Kylo Ren who has become a psychopathic teen shooter with a lightsaber.
At some point, we will get a fight scene where Kylo says to Rey..."I am your brother" (pilfering the moment when Luke finds out that Vader is his father). Rey says "Noooooo!" and falls off something very very deep. But wait! Finn catches her mid fall in the Millenium Falcon.
You get the drift.
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It comes back to the same thing in EVERYTHING he has ever done. He does not have any intellectual depth. None at all. Everything he does is strictly superficial and devoid of any sort of depth. He does not get the concepts of science or philosophy or religion or devotion. I suspect he has always been this way. He was a fan of Star Wars because he liked the way it looked, not because he even paid attention to the story. His filmography is all fluff:
http://m.imdb.com/name/nm0009190/filmotype/producer?ref_=m_nmfm_1
If he does not have the ability to be a deep thinker, he cannot come up with anything deep or with substance.
Gatefan1976
Well Known GateFan
I have to wonder............
Do you guys even pay attention, or are you just looking for the next stupid thing to say?
It's like listening to people who spend their lives watching Faux news, JJ had a Homebrew Server giving him ideas therefore the whole nation of star wars is fucked!!
Let's impeach him before he becomes president, it's easier that way.
Do you guys even pay attention, or are you just looking for the next stupid thing to say?
It's like listening to people who spend their lives watching Faux news, JJ had a Homebrew Server giving him ideas therefore the whole nation of star wars is fucked!!
Let's impeach him before he becomes president, it's easier that way.
Um, were you trying to say something or trying to make a rebuttal to something you are reading? I must have missed it. Care to be a bit more specific about what you are saying?
Gatefan1976
Well Known GateFan
So many of your criticisms are actually addressed if you bother to pay attention to the movie.Um, were you trying to say something or trying to make a rebuttal to something you are reading? I must have missed it. Care to be a bit more specific about what you are saying?
You have such a hard on walking in to hate it or criticise it that you don't bother to see if your questions are answered.
Even when you do make valid criticisms, it's not for good reasons, it's "I just don't like it" reasons, rather than anything else, and it is frustrating to say the least.
Okay, I just read starting five pages back, and it appears that my reasons for not liking this movie that much are CLEARLY stated, in print. Even including bulleted points. Also, besides Joelist and perhaps Tripler, about half of our little tribe do not like this movie that much (myself, Bluce and shavedape). We have all stated CLEARLY why. I would be happy to give you details again, but do you need them?
I do not hate this movie. I just do not think it is remotely the best SW film, and it stands out as the only derivative one in all of the SW films or TV media.
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shavedape
Well Known GateFan
Like OM1 said, we don't hate it. It just has some HUGE flaws and we're greatly disappointed. This isn't just any old movie franchise we're talking about here. This is Star Wars and this story is a defining part of most of our lives from when we were younger. So of course we're going to be critical of the parts that are egregiously bad. What we find frustrating is that TPTB made glaring mistakes and gaffes when they were in a position to know better. How could they not know? They're getting paid millions of dollars to get it right.
Look, no one expects a movie to be perfect and we're all willing to overlook minor stuff for the most part. Like the forced and rushed way that Finn and Poe became friends. It was irritating but in the scheme of things I could let it slide. For the sake of timing there are some things that viewers just have to swallow, I get that. But when it comes to more important stuff, like Rey's skilled ability with the Force despite zero knowledge of it, well, come on dude. That just screams for criticism. Same with Leia bitching Chewie at an emotionally critical moment in the story. As lifelong fans of SW we deserved to see these two commiserate and grieve together over the loss of a beloved character. TPTB owed us that. -- Yes, I said they owed us that.
And don't get me going on the rest of this shit storm of a movie because I hated it!
Reflecting on the original trilogy, I remember distinctly the shock I felt when Luke found out that Darth Vader was his father. I loved how Obi Wan and Yoda both, as well as Luke's own foster parents never revealed the secret. The reveal was brilliantly told over three episodes, and the writing was exciting and intelligent. That first episode was number IV for a reason. It came after I, II and III, and before V and VI. JJ is in effect "jumping in" at IV and retreading the story, even if the characters and locales are slightly different. Are episodes VIII, IX and X already written? Why NOT? Or, has Star Wars (like Star Trek and Batman movies) become yet another product which periodically gets tweaked and called "new" every few years? I just do not have to love it, sorry! I loved the real thing, but I am not going for SW Lite.
That bit with Leia and Rey was so utterly and completely out of place. Rey really does not know Leia even as well as Finn does. And will somebody tell me how PRINCESS Leia in thirty years somehow became some mediocre General in a "resistance" force which (last we saw), she was the freakin Leader? What did Han and Chewie do after winning at Endor....go out and party and bang alien women for thirty years while Leia filed for bankruptcy and was stripped of her royalty? Why did the restored Republic crumble and allow The First Order to form?
Something else that I realized after watching it the second time was that the Starkiller had ALREADY destroyed the three planets within it's range. It was no longer a threat after that, since it cannot be piloted like a Death Star. Why did they need to create a plan and risk lives to destroy it like that? JJ's Starkiller was a planet because his Death Star had to be bigger, badder and more powerful...IMO.
That bit with Leia and Rey was so utterly and completely out of place. Rey really does not know Leia even as well as Finn does. And will somebody tell me how PRINCESS Leia in thirty years somehow became some mediocre General in a "resistance" force which (last we saw), she was the freakin Leader? What did Han and Chewie do after winning at Endor....go out and party and bang alien women for thirty years while Leia filed for bankruptcy and was stripped of her royalty? Why did the restored Republic crumble and allow The First Order to form?
Something else that I realized after watching it the second time was that the Starkiller had ALREADY destroyed the three planets within it's range. It was no longer a threat after that, since it cannot be piloted like a Death Star. Why did they need to create a plan and risk lives to destroy it like that? JJ's Starkiller was a planet because his Death Star had to be bigger, badder and more powerful...IMO.
Bluce Ree
Tech Admin / Council Member
Come on, dude. I was pretty thorough in detail with my issues. I didn't "hate" this movie going in, none of us did. I've always been a fan of Star Wars and I went into this with an open mind expecting to have fun, especially because we had Star Wars alumni back in action. I disliked what Abrams did to Star Trek but still had fun watching both movies.
This movie, on the other hand, was pure dreck to me. All Abrams did was dress up "A New Hope" in new clothes and water down the story so he can focus on boom-boom and pew-pew, which is what he does best. He skipped through important details like "how the f*ck did Rey become a skilled, seasoned Jedi by accident while she was tied to a table?" and treated it like a children's Dungeons and Dragons style story.
Granted, Star Wars has always been fantasy but Lucas did take the time to show us some sort of progression. Luke didn't wake up one day and magically become a master Jedi while staring at the ceiling. Darth Vader didn't fall off his bike, get pissed because he scraped his knee as he realized his bike had shoddy construction and decide to become an evil Sith Lord.
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
I think they said that the weapon could be fired through hyperspace thereby just about every planet was within its reach; the beauty of it being that the planet wouldn't have to move at all.
Quite honestly though the Death star type of weapon has been done to death, pardon the pun. They should have gone with something else. Since they knew the location of the Resistance why didn't they just drop a few Imperial cruisers into orbit and clean house? Do they only have one cruiser left in the stellar navy? Have budget cuts made them economize the military? Seriously, what was that about?
Also, I think the CGI sucked for the most part in this one. Snoke was a very cheap looking cartoon. When they have shown holograms in the other movies they had a life-like quality to them. You could see the transmission flicker a bit. But for Snoke it was just this dumb looking cartoon zombie in a big chair. It had zero believability.
Additionally I didn't care for making the character of Maz Kanata completely CGI. They tried that in the prequels and it failed miserably. One of the appealing things about SW is the use of makeup and prosthetics on actors and they should have done that with Maz. There was no reason not to use an actor in the role. Some idiot in production thought it would be cool to do a CGI character and that's the only reason it was done -- idiocy.
Overall I didn't find this movie as visually stunning as expected. Even the opening scene with the Imperial cruiser failed in my opinion. It was like Abrams managed to take this scenic universe and sucked the life out of it. There wasn't a single scene that took my breath away or caused me to go "wow". And in a Star Wars movie there really should be scenes like that. Even when the gang was running around the Death Star/Planet thing it wasn't that exciting. There was no thrilling moment where our intrepid heroes have to swing across a chasm as stormtroopers chase them down. There was just...meh.
And just so I'm not bashed for being a Negative Nancy I'll say something nice about the movie -- the guy who played Finn did a really good job. Definitely a good casting choice. He played off the other actors really well, even upstaging Ford in a scene or two I thought. They chick who plays Rey was forgettable though. I'm not saying that she's a bad actor, just that she doesn't command a memorable presence. Her acting job was servicable, that's it.
Bluce Ree
Tech Admin / Council Member
YAY! Abrams figured out how to turn a species into Gods in Star Wars, too! In the same swoop, he also rendered battle fleets moot.
Well played, sir. Well played.