Star Wars VII - The Force Awakens

[Bluce Ree]

That bad?

Yep.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Well maybe it's a good thing I'm not getting my hopes up. I could end up pleasantly surprised.

To me, it's kind of like the last Indiana Jones movie of the Star Wars franchise, one too many.

 

[Overmind One]

To me, it's kind of like the last Indiana Jones movie of the Star Wars franchise, one too many.

I can't rewatch it as easily as I can the originals or even the prequels.

 

[Overmind One]

JJ Abrams movies are like cheesecake. If I have not had a piece of one in a while, the first bite of fresh cheesecake with graham cracker crust is culinary nirvana. Maybe even the whole slice. But if I make the mistake of having another, about halfway through it suddenly becomes too much of a sweet overload that I can't even finish it. Then it leaves a lingering sweet aftertaste in my mouth that makes me sorry I ate it, then a couple of hours later there is the gas and perhaps the runs and then starts the next months long long gap between cheesecake slices.

 

[shavedape]

Okay, I saw it and it was just meh. I won't dissect it too much but will mention a few things. Abrams fingerprints were obvious from the start and while it was a Star Wars film at the same time it felt off. Even though there was a ton of familiar stuff it still felt not quite right. Copying the first film was a rather safe path to take I thought. So was copying Lucas's use of Joseph Campbell's trope about the hero's journey (both Finn and Rey trying to run away from their destinies, etc.)

I did make an allowance for the rushed way the characters were introduced. Finn and Poe becoming best buddies was forced though -- very forced. And WTF was up with Leia walking past Chewie to comfort Rey after Han croaks??? She barely knew Rey but essentially was family with Chewie. His lifelong partner dies but the wookie doesn't even merit a hug from her? Really bitch? Really? M'kay.

Oh, and Snoke (or whatever his name is) has got to be the least menacing cartoon villain I've ever seen. I felt absolutely no fear or trepidation when he was on screen compared to the Emperor who was genuinely creepy. And don't even get me going about Ren doing his Vader impersonation.

At any rate, I won't be holding my breath for the next installment. I will gladly wait for it to hit Netflix or cable TV before I watch it. And yeah, I'll probably watch it as this one, while bad, wasn't as bad as the prequels so that's a good sign. I just hope Kasdan has a bigger hand in writing the next ones though.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Okay, I saw it and it was just meh. I won't dissect it too much but will mention a few things. Abrams fingerprints were obvious from the start and while it was a Star Wars film at the same time it felt off. Even though there was a ton of familiar stuff it still felt not quite right. Copying the first film was a rather safe path to take I thought. So was copying Lucas's use of Joseph Campbell's trope about the hero's journey (both Finn and Rey trying to run away from their destinies, etc.)

Copying Campbells observations is pretty much "par for the course" for any hero movie, hell they have been doing it since the Greeks

I did make an allowance for the rushed way the characters were introduced. Finn and Poe becoming best buddies was forced though -- very forced. And WTF was up with Leia walking past Chewie to comfort Rey after Han croaks??? She barely knew Rey but essentially was family with Chewie. His lifelong partner dies but the wookie doesn't even merit a hug from her? Really bitch? Really? M'kay.

That actually -really- grated on me, I WTF'ed in the cinema when I saw that. As much as it pains me to do it however, a lot of that WTF came from reading the books, and having Han and Leia staying togeather, and the Wookie "life debt" coming into play and that stuff simply isn't in the movies at all. As for Rey, it looks like they are setting her up to be Luke's Daughter, so Leia may full well know about her being her Neice.

Oh, and Snoke (or whatever his name is) has got to be the least menacing cartoon villain I've ever seen. I felt absolutely no fear or trepidation when he was on screen compared to the Emperor who was genuinely creepy. And don't even get me going about Ren doing his Vader impersonation.

Snoke was crap, not because he was "bad", but because his right hand man was a petulant, stupid child. Ren being a kid was fine, but hey, let him grow up a bit and own the "big bad" role before showing he has his own leash like they did with vader.

At any rate, I won't be holding my breath for the next installment. I will gladly wait for it to hit Netflix or cable TV before I watch it. And yeah, I'll probably watch it as this one, while bad, wasn't as bad as the prequels so that's a good sign. I just hope Kasdan has a bigger hand in writing the next ones though.

I want to see where it goes, All I ask for is from the next two is a superior story.

 

[Joelist]

The movie did what it was asked to do quite well. Namely to get Star Wars going successfully in the theaters again, set up the new characters for future films and put the prequels to sleep proverbially.

As such, it would naturally try to return to the feel and tone of the original films, and it largely did so. This necessarily meant the plot could feel somewhat derivative; but I think Lucasfilm was willing to do that in order to recapture that original trilogy feel.

That said, it did have a couple of moments where it felt odd. One was indeed the one Shaved mentioned with Leia and Rey; I guess we were supposed to assume Chewie mourned on the return trip but that leads to the second oddity - exposition.

By "exposition", I am referring to telling us enough about the backdrop and also letting us see all pertinent character moments. They literally told just barely enough about the backdrop to let the story function - I would have preferred trimming a few minutes from other scenes to give us at least minimal exposition on the galactic situation early on (instead of leaving it for added scenes in video). Also, they did have a habit of leaving some character moments (like Chewie mourning) to the imagination.

On balance however, this film is so superior to the prequels it is insane. The tone is right, the mood is right, the use of practical effects instead of CGI was very well done. The overall acting was good, and the three newcomers we got to see all did good work. The story while sparse at least set the stage and unlike Abrams Trek devastation no harm was done to the SW canon.

POSTSCRIPT: It is interesting that this film provokes a split in opinion in our family here when we typically are more of the same mind on things like this. My theory (and it is just a theory) is this difference is partly the result of the following:

a) We have a mix of people more from the Star Wars fan side vis a vis more from the Star Trek side. It seems the "Star Wars" side likes the film more than the "Star Trek" side does. Which makes sense - a film like this in the Trek setting would not work. This also parallels the vast majority approval of TFW by the Star Wars fan community as opposed to the vast majority rejection of Star Trek Into Darkness by the Star Trek fan community.

b) JJ Abrams is polarizing because of the mess he made of Star Trek. It makes it difficult to approach any film with his name anywhere on it completely open minded. Not right or wrong just a fact of life.

c) Tastes differ. We all like different things (for example OM and I liked Dredd and Bluce did not).

 

[shavedape]

And what purpose did Captain Phasma serve? She was barely in the movie and then when she is in it she's captured and they talk about tossing her into the trash compactor, but we never find out what happens to her. The character was completely unnecessary.

 

[Joelist]

And what purpose did Captain Phasma serve? She was barely in the movie and then when she is in it she's captured and they talk about tossing her into the trash compactor, but we never find out what happens to her. The character was completely unnecessary.

She was a minor character. Not every single character has to have significant screen time and development.

 

[Overmind One]

She was a minor character. Not every single character has to have significant screen time and development.

Yes, but she was built up as being a major character in this film and she was just a tarted up female stormtrooper. The first. What that her purpose? To be the first female stormtrooper? I think it was.

 

[Joelist]

Yes, but she was built up as being a major character in this film and she was just a tarted up female stormtrooper. The first. What that her purpose? To be the first female stormtrooper? I think it was.

I think she was in advertising to sell toys principally, and was never intended to be a major character in the film. But ad agencies thought she looked cool, so you got the ads showing her.

 

[Overmind One]

The movie did what it was asked to do quite well. Namely to get Star Wars going successfully in the theaters again, set up the new characters for future films and put the prequels to sleep proverbially.

As such, it would naturally try to return to the feel and tone of the original films, and it largely did so. This necessarily meant the plot could feel somewhat derivative; but I think Lucasfilm was willing to do that in order to recapture that original trilogy feel.

That said, it did have a couple of moments where it felt odd. One was indeed the one Shaved mentioned with Leia and Rey; I guess we were supposed to assume Chewie mourned on the return trip but that leads to the second oddity - exposition.

By "exposition", I am referring to telling us enough about the backdrop and also letting us see all pertinent character moments. They literally told just barely enough about the backdrop to let the story function - I would have preferred trimming a few minutes from other scenes to give us at least minimal exposition on the galactic situation early on (instead of leaving it for added scenes in video). Also, they did have a habit of leaving some character moments (like Chewie mourning) to the imagination.

I think they recaptured the scenes of the first film more than the actual feel. They essentially re-did many scenes and just did them from different angles. It felt too familiar, too often. It never let me forget that it was trying to be a rebooted A New Hope. The biggest obstacle to that was the fact that there was no more Emperor, no Darth Vader, no Death Star or any of the things that JJ Abrams loved when he saw those films as a young man. They were not going to allow him to do an alternate timeline thing, so he created Kylo Ren and Snoke and Rey to replace the Emperor, Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker. Then it was just a matter of writing a story to tie them all into the original movies and then liberally add TONS of explosions and fast moving action shots. But the music was right on point.

On balance however, this film is so superior to the prequels it is insane. The tone is right, the mood is right, the use of practical effects instead of CGI was very well done. The overall acting was good, and the three newcomers we got to see all did good work. The story while sparse at least set the stage and unlike Abrams Trek devastation no harm was done to the SW canon.

Really? I thought the movie was skewed towards mindless action shots and light on reason and continuity...even within this single movie. The way they have messed around with the Force is a universe changing thing.

POSTSCRIPT: It is interesting that this film provokes a split in opinion in our family here when we typically are more of the same mind on things like this. My theory (and it is just a theory) is this difference is partly the result of the following:

a) We have a mix of people more from the Star Wars fan side vis a vis more from the Star Trek side. It seems the "Star Wars" side likes the film more than the "Star Trek" side does. Which makes sense - a film like this in the Trek setting would not work. This also parallels the vast majority approval of TFW by the Star Wars fan community as opposed to the vast majority rejection of Star Trek Into Darkness by the Star Trek fan community.

b) JJ Abrams is polarizing because of the mess he made of Star Trek. It makes it difficult to approach any film with his name anywhere on it completely open minded. Not right or wrong just a fact of life.

c) Tastes differ. We all like different things (for example OM and I liked Dredd and Bluce did not).

I know why I don't like it...no mystery. It's derivative and shallow. Even more shallow than the prequels. At least the prequels were original. I don't like JJ Abram's additions to the saga, I don't care for BB8 and I don't find Snoke intriguing. The entire movie centered around finding Luke Skywalker on a map hidden in BB8 and R2D2? Dumbest story ever.

 

[Overmind One]

I think she was in advertising to sell toys principally, and was never intended to be a major character in the film. But ad agencies thought she looked cool, so you got the ads showing her.

The media made a big deal of her, and she is already confirmed for Episode VIII. So she is evidently more major in JJ's Star Wars films than say....Han Solo or Luke Skywalker. I predict JJ will kill him off too.

 

[Joelist]

All I'm referring to is her role in this film - which was minor. The advertisers made her bigger than she really was. She is supposed to be in the next film but in all likelihood will again be a bit player. We'll see what Rian Johnson (writer and director) does in that film.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Okay, I saw it and it was just meh. I won't dissect it too much but will mention a few things. Abrams fingerprints were obvious from the start and while it was a Star Wars film at the same time it felt off. Even though there was a ton of familiar stuff it still felt not quite right. Copying the first film was a rather safe path to take I thought. So was copying Lucas's use of Joseph Campbell's trope about the hero's journey (both Finn and Rey trying to run away from their destinies, etc.)

I did make an allowance for the rushed way the characters were introduced. Finn and Poe becoming best buddies was forced though -- very forced. And WTF was up with Leia walking past Chewie to comfort Rey after Han croaks??? She barely knew Rey but essentially was family with Chewie. His lifelong partner dies but the wookie doesn't even merit a hug from her? Really bitch? Really? M'kay.

Oh, and Snoke (or whatever his name is) has got to be the least menacing cartoon villain I've ever seen. I felt absolutely no fear or trepidation when he was on screen compared to the Emperor who was genuinely creepy. And don't even get me going about Ren doing his Vader impersonation.

At any rate, I won't be holding my breath for the next installment. I will gladly wait for it to hit Netflix or cable TV before I watch it. And yeah, I'll probably watch it as this one, while bad, wasn't as bad as the prequels so that's a good sign. I just hope Kasdan has a bigger hand in writing the next ones though.

You didn't mention how Rey basically decided she was a Jedi based on nothing at all.

 

[shavedape]

You didn't mention how Rey basically decided she was a Jedi based on nothing at all.

I know but if I pointed out all the flaws in this film I would have been up all night typing my little heart out.

I'm honestly trying not to think about Rey's "awakening" to the Force because it was dumb. They didn't explain her knowledge of weapons one iota so when she fired up the light saber I instantly disconnected. Clearly Ren had years of training yet Rey, who never saw a light saber before in her life, manages to best him in a fight??? M'kay, sure. At least when Finn tried to fight with the saber he got his ass kicked. That was more plausible (but not much).

What really grated was that moment when Ren has Rey (dumb names) on the edge of the cliff and at her weakest and he mentions the Force. She says "The Force?" like she has no clue what it is despite the fact that she used it earlier during her interrogation (where she was in Ren's mind) and subsequent escape ala the Jedi mind trick. Then just by hearing the term "the Force" she goes all Zen and channels this new magical power and proceeds to kick the ass of someone with years of training in harnessing the Force, as mentioned above. It was a real WTF cinematic moment I thought.

So now Rey has gone off and found Luke and is going to be trained by him the way he was trained by Yoda. But if she's already so well versed in using the Force why does she need Luke? Why does anyone need Luke? Let his stinky old ass stay lost I say cuz the last time he trained someone in the use of the Force he created a psychopath that ended up killing his own father.

 

[shavedape]

I think she was in advertising to sell toys principally, and was never intended to be a major character in the film. But ad agencies thought she looked cool, so you got the ads showing her.

I'm not disagreeing with your point but I don't understand why they didn't show what happened to her at the hands of Han and Finn. Clearly she's an evil character and we deserve to see her get her comeuppance no matter how minor she may be. Showing them toss her into a trash compactor (even if it doesn't kill her) was required in that moment as they had mentioned they were going to do that. It could have even been a bit comedic. It was dumb to not give us that scene and it shows a lack of conscientiousness on the part of the writers. (Same with the scene where Leia ignores Chewie to go comfort Rey, a veritable stranger. The writers were out to lunch.)

 

[Bluce Ree]

I'm not disagreeing with your point but I don't understand why they didn't show what happened to her at the hands of Han and Finn. Clearly she's an evil character and we deserve to see her get her comeuppance no matter how minor she may be. Showing them toss her into a trash compactor (even if it doesn't kill her) was required in that moment as they had mentioned they were going to do that. It could have even been a bit comedic. It was dumb to not give us that scene and it shows a lack of conscientiousness on the part of the writers. (Same with the scene where Leia ignores Chewie to go comfort Rey, a veritable stranger. The writers were out to lunch.)

Yeah, well, that's how JJ rolls. Deal with it.

 

[Bluce Ree]

I know but if I pointed out all the flaws in this film I would have been up all night typing my little heart out.

I'm honestly trying not to think about Rey's "awakening" to the Force because it was dumb. They didn't explain her knowledge of weapons one iota so when she fired up the light saber I instantly disconnected. Clearly Ren had years of training yet Rey, who never saw a light saber before in her life, manages to best him in a fight??? M'kay, sure. At least when Finn tried to fight with the saber he got his ass kicked. That was more plausible (but not much).

What really grated was that moment when Ren has Rey (dumb names) on the edge of the cliff and at her weakest and he mentions the Force. She says "The Force?" like she has no clue what it is despite the fact that she used it earlier during her interrogation (where she was in Ren's mind) and subsequent escape ala the Jedi mind trick. Then just by hearing the term "the Force" she goes all Zen and channels this new magical power and proceeds to kick the ass of someone with years of training in harnessing the Force, as mentioned above. It was a real WTF cinematic moment I thought.

So now Rey has gone off and found Luke and is going to be trained by him the way he was trained by Yoda. But if she's already so well versed in using the Force why does she need Luke? Why does anyone need Luke? Let his stinky old ass stay lost I say cuz the last time he trained someone in the use of the Force he created a psychopath that ended up killing his own father.

So, did you take a shower after?

 

[shavedape]

So, did you take a shower after?

I went for rape counseling.