Star Wars #7 Character Details

[Overmind One]

Sneak peek at the X-wing Fighter:

It's too big. WAY too big. It looks twice the size of the Xwing fighters in SW IV, V and VI, and appears to be the size of a modern F22 or perhaps F16. If he did this with the Xwing, imagine what the Star Cruisers will look like? Everything in Abram's Star Wars will have a steampunk look which will seem out of place in Star Wars. Im calling it right now...he will %#$@! it up and good.

 

[Joelist]

Actually it is properly to scale. Also the overall look is very close to some of the EU set after Return of the Jedi. It is almost literally what the original Star Wars art had and almost a dead ringer for the T-65 model of the X-Wing which was used by the New Republic in EU set roughly 30 years after RotJ.

 

[Overmind One]

It's bigger. I'm at work but I will post a pic with Luke standing next to one. It is scaled about 40% larger in every dimension.

 

[Joelist]

Okay, here is an image still of Luke entering an X Wing:

And here is the only still we have on the new fighter:

Scale seems pretty much on the money.

 

[Overmind One]

Okay, here is an image still of Luke entering an X Wing:

View attachment 30145

And here is the only still we have on the new fighter:

View attachment 30146


Scale seems pretty much on the money.

Nope. It has a single engine on each side, so how the hell does it look when the wings are split? Xwing fighters have FOUR, smaller engines so that one engine is on each wing when they are split. Looking closer at Abram's version, I do not even see how it can split the wings. The opening of the engine is too big, and the overall scale seems bigger:

If the "X-wings" cannot form an X, then it isn't an Xwing fighter. Abrams ruined EVERY spaceship he has gotten his grubby hands on. The Enterprise, the Klingon warbirds, the Romulan ships, all of the interiors of these ships too. Ruined.

 

[Overmind One]

I found this:

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Star...ust-An-X-Wing-Entirely-Kind-X-Wing-66359.html

According to that, the wings do split, but not really. They are like the tines of scissors. The rear part of the wing goes up, and the front part goes down. The problem with this scientifically is that neither of these "wings" is capable of providing any significant lift. Not cool IMO. There was nothing wrong with the original design. Hell, why not just add wings to the battle cruisers too. Perhaps put a periscope on the bridge, maybe add a couple of propellers? I wonder if he will put the Xwings underwater too, and have them battling Gooberfish. I feel sorry for Star Wars fans. This Xwing move is just proof that Abrams has made major changes. And yeah, it is major. He will change everything. 100% sure of that.

 

[Overmind One]

Actually it is properly to scale. Also the overall look is very close to some of the EU set after Return of the Jedi. It is almost literally what the original Star Wars art had and almost a dead ringer for the T-65 model of the X-Wing which was used by the New Republic in EU set roughly 30 years after RotJ.

Um, no. This is the T-65

This is the Abrams....thing (kinda). This artists concept looks better than the full sized fighter Abrams is standing next to.

Why are Star Wars fans thinking that JJ Abrams can suddenly come out with brilliance and loyalty to the franchise? Why do they think Star Wars will escape the King of Lens Flare and his self-worshiping liberties with everything he gets his hands on? He wont. He will screw up Star wars like he screwed up Star Trek, and Disney will fire him. He will fade like Joss Whedon and Ronald Moore did. He will still be at the Cool Kids table, but he wont be calling the shots on this level anymore.

 

[Joelist]

Sorry I meant Z 95. lucasfilm already had to issue a clarification that it is not a Z 95.

And if you look at the picture you can see the wing split setup. Plus remember this is 30 years after Jedi. To have the exact same design would be silly. And my pictures prove it is in correct scale.

To me it looks fine. It is definitely a Star Wars ship, is not CGI and looks properly weathered.

 

[Overmind One]

Sorry I meant Z 95. lucasfilm already had to issue a clarification that it is not a Z 95.

And if you look at the picture you can see the wing split setup. Plus remember this is 30 years after Jedi. To have the exact same design would be silly. And my pictures prove it is in correct scale.

To me it looks fine. It is definitely a Star Wars ship, is not CGI and looks properly weathered.

Why would it be silly? The new ship is a simpler, primitive design from an engineering standpoint (from how it looks). The Xwing design is a split wing (reconfigurable) space/atmospheric fighter. Splitting the wing lengthwise, with the rear part of the wing having no lift surface makes no sense whatsoever. But then this show is fantasy, so who cares? I still disagree about the scale. It sits too high as well. Probably, nobody will care except the purists.

If you split a current fighter or airplane wing lengthwise, only the forward "split" will be a lifting wing. The rear section would provide extreme drag and destroy the thing. Did you like the new Enterprise too?

 

[Joelist]

OM, look at my pictures. I chose the one I did because I needed one with a person by the ship to convey the scale. Both people are in the same proportion to the ship hence it is properly in scale. As to aerodynamics, X-Wings are space fighters not aircraft. They would simply have the wings folded in atmosphere (just like they did in the OT). As to the engines I think that the front intake is actually two D shaped intakes that together form a circle. That is actually how the original Star Wars artwork had the X-Wing before ILM changed it to the version we saw.

I'm not seeing the problem here. The ship is a physical model not CG - a good sign. Also it looks weathered and looks like a ship out of the Star Wars universe - if you showed it to a person they would guess it was Star Wars most of the time with no other clues. I might note even the purists are not raising any real howl - they were the ones who initially thought it was a Z95 and when it was IDed as an X-Wing a lot of the reaction was favorable.

As to the Enterprise, yes I would have rather had the nacelles smaller and toned down the Apple bridge - I liked the idea of brighter colors to denote optimism but can be taken too far - like it was. Remember however that Star Wars has a couple of advantages here:

a) Abrams is an avid Star Wars nut and was not an avoid Star Trek fan. Hence the tonal elements in his Star Trek that resembled Star Wars.

b) Disney and Lucasfilm are going to be very careful about making sure any media produced really is Star Wars and not something else disguised as it. This is evidenced by:

c) Neither Abrams nor his buddies Orci, Lindelof or Kurtzman are writing the script. That is in the hands of Lawrence Kasdan who is probably THE expert on the Star Wars universe and mythos and who wrote the OT. Note that Disney made that move after seeing the hot mess that was Star Trek Into Darkness and that the announcement made purists VERY happy.

 

[shavedape]

I'm elated that they are using full-scale mock ups instead of pure CGI. For me that makes any other issue fairly minor. And yes, I love the weathered/distressed look of the ship. It reminds me of the original movie in terms of realism.

Fingers crossed though that they do keep it real. We don't need any bling-ed-out Imperial Cruisers.

 

[Overmind One]

OM, look at my pictures. I chose the one I did because I needed one with a person by the ship to convey the scale. Both people are in the same proportion to the ship hence it is properly in scale. As to aerodynamics, X-Wings are space fighters not aircraft. They would simply have the wings folded in atmosphere (just like they did in the OT). As to the engines I think that the front intake is actually two D shaped intakes that together form a circle. That is actually how the original Star Wars artwork had the X-Wing before ILM changed it to the version we saw.

I'm not seeing the problem here. The ship is a physical model not CG - a good sign. Also it looks weathered and looks like a ship out of the Star Wars universe - if you showed it to a person they would guess it was Star Wars most of the time with no other clues. I might note even the purists are not raising any real howl - they were the ones who initially thought it was a Z95 and when it was IDed as an X-Wing a lot of the reaction was favorable.

As to the Enterprise, yes I would have rather had the nacelles smaller and toned down the Apple bridge - I liked the idea of brighter colors to denote optimism but can be taken too far - like it was. Remember however that Star Wars has a couple of advantages here:

a) Abrams is an avid Star Wars nut and was not an avoid Star Trek fan. Hence the tonal elements in his Star Trek that resembled Star Wars.

b) Disney and Lucasfilm are going to be very careful about making sure any media produced really is Star Wars and not something else disguised as it. This is evidenced by:

c) Neither Abrams nor his buddies Orci, Lindelof or Kurtzman are writing the script. That is in the hands of Lawrence Kasdan who is probably THE expert on the Star Wars universe and mythos and who wrote the OT. Note that Disney made that move after seeing the hot mess that was Star Trek Into Darkness and that the announcement made purists VERY happy.

But when it comes to Abrams, it is never about the script. It is about the LOOK. And in a cinematic production, the look is everything. Abrams packages his stories with a love interest, lots of sparkly and glare, and movement. Lots and lots of movement and scene changing. He likes moments of silence to raise tensions. He likes throwing in dry humor at inappropriate moments. That is the Abrams Treatment. Will it matter if the script is excellent, if the visual presentation is not Star Wars? After all, Star Wars is just another Swords and Sandals and Robes story dressed in a spacesuit with the castles on different planets.

Having said that, Abrams almost got the look right in Star Trek, but he flubbed it with glare and glitz on the bridge. He ruined the proportions of the Enterprise, ruined the very core of Trek. I have no reason to believe he will do different for Star Wars.

 

[Overmind One]

OM, look at my pictures. I chose the one I did because I needed one with a person by the ship to convey the scale. Both people are in the same proportion to the ship hence it is properly in scale. As to aerodynamics, X-Wings are space fighters not aircraft. They would simply have the wings folded in atmosphere (just like they did in the OT). As to the engines I think that the front intake is actually two D shaped intakes that together form a circle. That is actually how the original Star Wars artwork had the X-Wing before ILM changed it to the version we saw.

No, think scissors. The single wing opens into the X configuration by opening like scissors lengthwise. One wing cannon sits on the tips of each wing section. The engine is fixed and does not move or split.

 

[Joelist]

The core of Trek is the characters and the plots not the look. If STID had a proper, well written script the look issues would have been minor irritants. It was the look issues COMBINED with a truly wretched script that produced a disaster. Plus, nothing we have seen indicates any such issues. If anything, signs have been encouraging (properly weathered, lack of CGI).

 

[Overmind One]

The core of Trek is the characters and the plots not the look. If STID had a proper, well written script the look issues would have been minor irritants. It was the look issues COMBINED with a truly wretched script that produced a disaster. Plus, nothing we have seen indicates any such issues. If anything, signs have been encouraging (properly weathered, lack of CGI).

The core of Trek is science and exploration in the future. The characters are secondary. They can be anyone, in any race anywhere in the Trek universe as long as they are at least in the 23rd century. Kirk and Spock and this set of characters only have significance with the ORIGINAL fanbase, and these characters in NuTrek are not the original characters (not talking about the actors). Kirk, Spock and Uhura are only familiar names in NuTrek. They are not the characters we know. And what the hell is Spock? He does not have his logic, his Vulcan culture or any self control. He is ridiculous. How does NuKirk keep command of a starship? How is it he could just throw Scotty off the ship? How are these field commissions to First Officer and Captain being made? Its a mess.

Why would you think Abrams would not mess with Star Wars? Nothing in here shows otherwise:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0009190/

I will watch it for sure! But Im not expecting excellence. Im expecting a lot of bones to be tossed to fans from earlier films, the appearance of familiar things, but they will be out of context and gratuitous. The script will be only secondary.

 

[Joelist]

Watch the video. At about 1:45 there is a close pan of the new X-Wing and you can clearly see the divide between the wings and that there are 4 engines with D shaped intakes. Here is a site with a side view of it:

http://www.geek5auce.com/2014/06/millennium-falcon-teased-in-star-wars.html

More proof here:

http://thestarwarssaga.com/?p=3279

 

[Joelist]

The core of Trek is science and exploration in the future. The characters are secondary. They can be anyone, in any race anywhere in the Trek universe as long as they are at least in the 23rd century. Kirk and Spock and this set of characters only have significance with the ORIGINAL fanbase, and these characters in NuTrek are not the original characters (not talking about the actors). Kirk, Spock and Uhura are only familiar names in NuTrek. They are not the characters we know. And what the hell is Spock? He does not have his logic, his Vulcan culture or any self control. He is ridiculous. How does NuKirk keep command of a starship? How is it he could just throw Scotty off the ship? How are these field commissions to First Officer and Captain being made? Its a mess.

Why would you think Abrams would not mess with Star Wars? Nothing in here shows otherwise:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0009190/

I will watch it for sure! But Im not expecting excellence. Im expecting a lot of bones to be tossed to fans from earlier films, the appearance of familiar things, but they will be out of context and gratuitous. The script will be only secondary.

All the flaws you noted are plot elements. And plot and character were what I underlined as core to Trek. Science and exploration in the future is the premise which again is plot. It all comes back to the script. A properly written script covers a legion of look issues. A bad script kills the film even if the look is right.

 

[Overmind One]

Watch the video. At about 1:45 there is a close pan of the new X-Wing and you can clearly see the divide between the wings and that there are 4 engines with D shaped intakes. Here is a site with a side view of it:

http://www.geek5auce.com/2014/06/millennium-falcon-teased-in-star-wars.html

More proof here:

http://thestarwarssaga.com/?p=3279

The pictures are the same at both links, and I am not seeing any split in the engine. The video with JJ Abrams clearly shows a single engine with no split. D-shaped intakes make no sense.

Also, that Xwing is not a real mockup, it is an illustration. The only sure rendition is the actual video and stills from the video with Abrams standing next to the actual full sized fighter:

The wing itself has no demarcation for a split along it's edge. If you look at the top illustration, look closely at the wingtip cannons. One is attached to the rear section of the wing, and the other is attached to the front part. They open like scissors.

 

[Overmind One]

This artist's rendition shows the scenario you are describing:



But what was described elsewhere, the wings split lengthwise

 

[Overmind One]

All the flaws you noted are plot elements. And plot and character were what I underlined as core to Trek. Science and exploration in the future is the premise which again is plot. It all comes back to the script. A properly written script covers a legion of look issues. A bad script kills the film even if the look is right.

True.