Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

[Joelist]

I also had mixed feelings about it. On the good side was the acting, the fixing of the Klingons (not just appearance they actually acted like Klingons), improvement in the character of La'an and the plot was logical. On the bad side the plot may have been logical but the pacing was erratic, the unprofessional bridge dialog literally killed the tone (and is wasting the talents of Melissa Navia) and also this episode got a bit obnoxious in the unneeded insubordination department with Uhura among others mouthing off to higher ranking officers (part of the refit crew) and they just take it instead of putting them on report like should have happened.

 

[Quetesh]

This was one of their worst eps yet IMO.

They seemed to have gone out of their way to remove 90 percent of the main crew from the ep to push these other less interesting characters down our throats.
No captain, no number 1 , Spock seemed out of place and weaker then ever.

The only character I enjoyed in this week was the Doctor. I like him, he seems more 3 dimensional --- maybe the actor is just that much better. I see potential for him. The super barbie nu Nurse Chapel is just getting ridiculous. This and the undying love between her and Spock.

The writing was overall quite weak and the first half of the show was barely keeping my attention. The second half got better but overall this ep was dribble that felt like a hard push to like characters that are not really that likeable.

 

[Joelist]

Chapel and Uhura are the weakest characters on the show. Ortegas is right behind them on that list.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Episode two is REALLY good. My my. It actually managed to bring an involuntary tear or two to my eye. In my opinion, this one is right up there with the classic TNG episode where Data is on trial. Possibly it's better. I don't really want to weigh all the aspects of both episodes against each other, which is hard to do anyway considering they're about three decades apart. I'm just basing it on a feeling. I hope this is a forebode of what's to come for the rest of this season.

 

[Quetesh]

It was much much better, and I enjoyed a bit of twist and how all the puzzle pieces were made to fit together.
It was another definite preach episode but written so well with better character in the spotlight and overall much better acting that you just did not care.

I am willing to forgive last week's ep now, and move on with high hopes again.

 

[Joelist]

Yes it was preachy (which gets annoying - I don't think NuTrek understands how to weave commentary into a story as opposed to lecturing). But it was also a nice courtroom type drama with good acting and the resolution was also good. They even (in what may be a first for NuTrek) addressed both the pros and the cons of the anti genetic-engineering laws. This is also the second episode where La'an was much improved - they have seemingly decided to soften her a bit and it helps a lot. I liked the subplot about her fear that being the descendant of Khan and having the Augment gene she might become like Khan (an idea ENT put forth in the Augment 3 parter in S4 about the effects of the Augment modifications).

There is one thing that puzzled me and I would need to rewatch it to check - if Una was disallowed from being in Starfleet due to being genetically modified why isn't La'an? Both have genetic modifications and in both cases (La'an by birth and Una at birth) they were involuntarily acquired.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Yeah that does seem like a bit of a plot hole requiring explanation.

 

[Shadow Mann]

So, Strange New Worlds is back. One episode so far. I wasn't really blown away by it. Compared to season 3 of Picard, this was honestly kinda weak. But there is more to come and it's better than nothing.

:... and it's better than nothing."

Really?

 

[Joelist]

To me SNW as always gives me mixed feelings (which is better than the nausea that STD and Picard S1 and S2 induced). Both episodes have had generally good acting coupled with up and down stories and inconsistent dialogue. Also while the acting for Spock, Chapel and Uhura has been good their characters are not in alignment with their Trek selves. I speculate that this is from the writers not having watched TOS, TNG, VOY, ENT or the earlier films but pretty much limited to Nemesis, DS9 and TUC. It feels like that.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

:... and it's better than nothing."

Really?

I am.

 

[Joelist]

Okay.....how to say this...

As a piece of science fiction television this was actually pretty cool. I liked the emotional plot for La'an who they have totally fixed this season - she is now a good character to follow. The story was okay also BUT.....

As Star Trek this was pure nonsense. It is completely incompatible with Classic Trek canon BUT in a way this is a good thing. Let me elaborate.

In this plot Romulans in the future started trying to interfere with Earth's past to cause the Federation to never exist. They've been trying multiple changes and the one La'an gets roped into averting is the latest one (assassinating Khan and preventing the Eugenics Wars). La'an got sent into the altered future by the Time Agency in the far future to avert this change (no Federation).

The upshot is the cumulative effect of these Romulan time changes is that NuTrek is indeed in a separate timeline from what we know as Classic Trek.

 

[Shadow Mann]

Okay.....how to say this...

As a piece of science fiction television this was actually pretty cool. I liked the emotional plot for La'an who they have totally fixed this season - she is now a good character to follow. The story was okay also BUT.....

As Star Trek this was pure nonsense. It is completely incompatible with Classic Trek canon BUT in a way this is a good thing. Let me elaborate.

In this plot Romulans in the future started trying to interfere with Earth's past to cause the Federation to never exist. They've been trying multiple changes and the one La'an gets roped into averting is the latest one (assassinating Khan and preventing the Eugenics Wars). La'an got sent into the altered future by the Time Agency in the far future to avert this change (no Federation).

The upshot is the cumulative effect of these Romulan time changes is that NuTrek is indeed in a separate timeline from what we know as Classic Trek.

I am not speaking definitively about it because I refuse to watch it right now. That comment really tells me a lot...time travel retcon plot devices. So lazy! Remember, this is Pike's Enterprise which never would have been portrayed were it not for The Cage pilot which was killed before Kirk replaced him. This Enterprise is not the real 1701, which we saw in it's original form in the timeline far past Pike's time. These lazy, infuriating time travel plot devices/multiverses allow canon to be made irrelevant. That is a problem for me! Besides that, NuTrek is just not gonna fill the void. I do think there is still a future for better Trek.

 

[Joelist]

I am not speaking definitively about it because I refuse to watch it right now. That comment really tells me a lot...time travel retcon plot devices. So lazy! Remember, this is Pike's Enterprise which never would have been portrayed were it not for The Cage pilot which was killed before Kirk replaced him. This Enterprise is not the real 1701, which we saw in it's original form in the timeline far past Pike's time. These lazy, infuriating time travel plot devices/multiverses allow canon to be made irrelevant. That is a problem for me! Besides that, NuTrek is just not gonna fill the void. I do think there is still a future for better Trek.

And by putting NuTrek definitely into a separate timeline that future is made easier to get to, as all that is needed for the better Trek is to pick up after the end scene of Nemesis - all NuTrek is alt universe so no retcons necessary. The various Romulan attempts to change time have created the NuTrek alt universe and are responsible for the canon disconnects.

Also, Classic Trek did this same thing to itself with time travel episodes. First Contact put Borg on Earth much earlier than ever before which in turn affected ENT. Time's Arrow while a great story in itself had ripple effects going backwards in Trek continuity.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Season two episode three was another great episode. That's two in a row. I'm really impressed. There is no doubt that this is science fiction, and to be honest I've never felt emotions from any science fiction before, nowhere near this strong anyway, to the point that they could be comparatively considered non-existent. I'm really liking what they're doing with the La'an character, and I think the actress is doing a fantastic job. She's my favorite character on the show. The episode was very surprising as well, meaning unpredictable, unforeseen, original, and it was very solid as a self-contained story. It did a LOT to build the La'an character. The previous episode already did quite a bit of that as well.

As for comments about the show being in an alternative universe or timeline or whatever. So fucking what? Is there a law that says that everything has to follow continuity from the original Star Trek show which was created about five and a half decades ago? Here's a newsflash. That show sucked donkey balls. As much of a fan of Star Trek as I am, it was hard to watch TOS even once. If I recall correctly, I may have given it a second attempt, seeing as I paid (what felt like at the time) considerable money for the DVD box sets, but I can't even remember if I finished it the second time. It was quite a boring show. The REAL engine behind the popularity of trek was TNG, and then Voyager and DS9. That was the golden age of Star Trek. Although TOS originally started it all, and I bet it was mighty interesting at the time seeing as there wasn't much else in those days, it is basically irrelevant in the grand scheme. I can understand that you might like the show, especially if you lived through the original airings, but for god's sake, get a grip. I'm glad that these new shows are nothing like TOS, because they would have sucked, and it would have been the death of Star Trek. Just take this new show for what it is, a really really good piece of science fiction writing. At the moment anyway.

 

[Joelist]

Hi!

The canonicity issue is. alas, important. Trek is on life support at this time (especially with Paramount+ being on the block) and a MAJOR factor is the utter rejection of NuTrek by the fanbases of TOS, TNG and VOY. And while there are other factors in that rejection (preachiness, poor plots and characters) a major one is indeed fidelity to the Trek canon. For good or for bad, the large majority of the Trek fanbase take accuracy to the canon seriously. This is unlike other franchises where canon is not held at a high level.

Now as to SNW being like TOS, it actually is. Maybe not in terms of canonical details but in terms of the underlying optimism of the show, the episodic format, even showing some of the principles of the Federation (the court martial episode showed the Federation living up to its principles).

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Hi!

The canonicity issue is. alas, important. Trek is on life support at this time (especially with Paramount+ being on the block) and a MAJOR factor is the utter rejection of NuTrek by the fanbases of TOS, TNG and VOY. And while there are other factors in that rejection (preachiness, poor plots and characters) a major one is indeed fidelity to the Trek canon. For good or for bad, the large majority of the Trek fanbase take accuracy to the canon seriously. This is unlike other franchises where canon is not held at a high level.

Now as to SNW being like TOS, it actually is. Maybe not in terms of canonical details but in terms of the underlying optimism of the show, the episodic format, even showing some of the principles of the Federation (the court martial episode showed the Federation living up to its principles).

The utter rejection of NuTrek by the fanbases of TOS, TNG and VOY? The very fact that you're calling it nutrek shows you're biased and your preconceptions prohibit you from having an objective opinion on these new shows. You're also throwing fanbases of three different shows on one heap. I've just professed that I am not a fan of TOS, but I am a fan of TNG and VOY. There is a huge generational gap between those shows and TOS. The thing is, for me, whether it's TOS, or TNG, or DS9, or VOY, or ENT, or DSC, or PIC, or SNG, to me, it's all TREK. The term nutrek is just stupid nonsense to me. There is only trek.

 

[Joelist]

Really? I'm biased for using the term NuTrek which even its supporters use to refer to the Secret Hideout Trek shows? Nor did I create one "heap", but the shows I mentioned (TNG, VOY, TOS) do have a very large overlap in fanbases. And the overwhelming rejection of the Secret Hideout content is also pretty widely evident. It shows itself in the failure of Paramount+ as well as the implosion of the formerly stable and fairly robust Trek toy, hobby and game markets.

Also, I've been pretty fair to NuTrek. I tried STD before realizing what a bunch of awful, SJW crap it is. I also gave Picard fair shots in all three seasons. And remember I did say Picard Season Three was a major improvement over the first two. Finally, I have been a supporter in general of Strange New Worlds and even said this last episode was a good one.

That said, I am not going to pretend it fits correctly into Trek canon - it doesn't. And when your show is a prequel that can be a real issue. Picard for example was not a prequel so it did not have the burden of having to correctly fit into "history" - SNW does. This is why I have repeatedly said they need to clearly establish that SNW, STD and Picard are not in the same universe as TOS, TNG and VOY. It gets away from the history part of the canonicity challenge.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

The point was that the show doesn't have to perfectly fit in with previous shows.

 

[Joelist]

Okay this was a nice little story this week. I liked the memory loss plot and the discovery of what causes it and how to mitigate it. Most of the acting was good and it even had a couple of nice emotional pieces.

The only thing that bugged me was the misuse of Melissa Navia. She is an actress and a good one but the powers that be are so committed to portraying Ortegas as a wiseacre that it breaks the mood in scenes featuring her. Tone down the Gen Z street attitude, let her have real meaty scenes and be serious in them.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Found this episode kinda meh, but after the greatness of the previous two that is not too unexpected. Felt like a complete filler episode. I don't think it was intended as such, so I suppose that means they didn't do a great job. Was supposed to do some character building for Ortegas, but it didn't manage to.