Star Trek: Picard

[Lord Ba'al]

thats where, imo, some good old fashioned backstory, in dialogue or flashback, COULD (stressed) make for a more convincing show

but now that i have written it down, i bet you that there are related merch purchases required to get those fill-in-the-blanks points on the characters and other issues like how did the romulans get a borg cube to begin with

i mean how can you have seven without some mention of chakotay? how can you have hugh without some explanation of how he came to be on this cube and working for the romulans?

i am surprised we haven't seen klingons thrown in aimlessly for good measure!

I find these questions are unneeded. It's been two decades since the old stories. Stuff happened, whatever it was. The only thing which matters is what's happening now. The writers have no obligation to provide us with an account of all the things every one of the characters went through in all of their history. If there is something in their history which is pertinent to the unfolding story, I'm sure the writers would mention it.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

If you want some back story on Seven, try this.

After Voyager, Seven was with Chakotay, but since they were no longer trapped on a ship with a mission to get home, Seven quickly came to the realization that Chakotay is boring as fuck, so she left him. She then started sleeping around with Tom Paris behind B'elanna's back. B'elanna however started to get suspicious and confronted Seven. Seven told her the truth which surprised B'elanna and caused her to break down and cry. She confessed to Seven that her relationship with Tom was no longer what it used to be and that he wasn't satisfying her anymore. Seven agreed that she also wasn't quite getting the satisfaction she was looking for from Tom. The two made a connection. B'elanna slowly stretched our her arm and reached out to hold Seven's hand. From then on, Seven proceeded to have intimate relations with both Tom and B'elanna, unbeknownst to Tom. It went on for a while but the arrangements came to an end when Tom and B'elanna and both of their children were killed in a tragic traffic accident. At the funeral, Seven ran into Janeway, who invited her over for a drink at her place. One drink lead to another and before she realized it, Seven was involved in a romantic relationship with Janeway. She fell in love with her head over heels. One evening, when Seven came over to Janeway's place, she noticed a man coming out of the apartment. She hid behind a corner and overheard Janeway talking with the man. She was shocked to hear that they were talking about her. Janeway explained that she was just using Seven for sex and that she enjoyed her Borg stamina, but didn't actually feel anything for her. Tears appeared in Seven's eyes. The man applauded Janeway for her cunning ploy, admitting that he had done the same in the past. Then both of them laughed. Janeway and the man passionately kissed, after which they discussed meeting up again the next day. As the man left, she was surprised to learn that the man involved with Janeway, was Chakotay. Seven went into a mode of extreme rage, the likes of which she never experienced before. Long story short, she killed both Chakotay and Janeway. Then, realizing there was nothing left for her on planet earth, she stole a spaceship and embarked on a trip of exploration. She did whatever she wanted whenever she wanted it, regardless of any consequences to others. Initially, it was a breath of fresh air and Seven finally felt truly free for the first time in her life. After a while though, she found the experience to be a hollow one. One day, while sitting at a bar frequented by galactic criminals, a young girl came rushing in frantically and tried to hide. She was followed by a trio of fierce looking aliens, heavily armed. They found the girl and started beating her senseless. Seven couldn't stand the sight and intervened, mercilessly and efficiently slaughtering the three brutes with ease. The girl embraced her and thanked her with tears in her eyes. The experience gave Seven both a rush and a new sense of purpose. She finished her ale, got on her space ship, and flew around looking for people in need to assist, which she has been doing ever since.

 

[Joelist]

Hi!

I disagree that just because it has been some time since TNG and VOY that the showrunners can just use characters and have them be completely out of character with no explanation. Sorry but this "Picard" character feels completely wrong - he does not act or think like Jean Luc Picard from the series and films and in fact he has a different personality. Ditto Seven of Nine and in fact every character they have brought back.

Obviously a series set in the future for the franchise like Picard can and should break new ground. But it needs to have a cogent and logical explanation that is believable in the context of what came before of how we got to this new place. Otherwise it just breaks the willing suspension of disbelief.

 

[Overmind One]

Hi!

I disagree that just because it has been some time since TNG and VOY that the showrunners can just use characters and have them be completely out of character with no explanation. Sorry but this "Picard" character feels completely wrong - he does not act or think like Jean Luc Picard from the series and films and in fact he has a different personality. Ditto Seven of Nine and in fact every character they have brought back.

Obviously a series set in the future for the franchise like Picard can and should break new ground. But it needs to have a cogent and logical explanation that is believable in the context of what came before of how we got to this new place. Otherwise it just breaks the willing suspension of disbelief.

I am not going to respond to Lord Ba'al's posts regarding this show.

Picard has nothing for longtime Star Trek fans. It is a completely disconnected, separate thing which has the name Star Trek stuck to it. Everything from the foundation premise to everything that has come after is complete nonsense and not at all related to Star Trek. Just a few bullet points:

• Yellow dwarf stars like the one at the heart of the Romulan system CANNOT go supernova. This is hard science, not a guess or a theory.
• All supernovae exhibit precursors which can be detected YEARS in advance.
• Even if that star somehow did go supernova by say, a bomb or other artificial means, the effect radius is physically about 2 light years, and the gamma ray burst radius might reach up to 30 light years. Again, hard science, not a guess or a theory.
• The creation of Dajh and Soji by "cloning" a single "positronic neuron" is absurd, and even if it could be done it would not contain Data's memories or knowledge. Even Data himself needed an emotion chip to feel emotions, which underscores this fact that android capabilities are localized within the positronic net.
• The Romulan Star Empire extends across several parsecs and contains dozens of star systems, each with habitable planets. The Romulans would need no assistance from the Federation and especially nobody from Starfleet. They could easily evacuate Romulus and Remus to other planets within the empire with no assistance at all.
• Seven of Nine would not have joined a rebel force, and her marriage to Chakotay is curious and the failure to even mention Admiral Janeway even once is ridiculous. Seven is straight, and Picard makes her a lesbian.
• Picard portrays Starfleet as a conniving, corrupt overlord run entirely by women, which must be subverted by rebels and disgruntled ex-officers operating clandestinely.

Star Trek is supposed to be an episodic format. The nature of exploration and seeking out new worlds and civilizations is necessarily episodic, since the Star Trek formula centers around that and not interpersonal drama between characters. Picard is the anti-Trek, made for people who hate Star Trek.

This show AT BEST has one more season, and that's it. My contacts in the Industry tell me that Shari Redstone hates NuTrek and has frozen all new Star Trek projects. Discovery is done. Season 3 is it's last. The show has been canceled. Picard MAY get Season 2, because of the tax credits which have been awarded, but that is by no means guaranteed. Lower Decks will air a single season. Kurtzman will tread water producing "Clarisse" for CBS until his contract is played out.

The rumors of Seth McFarlane buying Star Trek are false. ViacomCBS has no intention of selling the IP. They want to hold on to it. I HOPE this means they want to do actual Star Trek with it, but I have no real info about that.

PICARD SUCKS.

 

[Overmind One]

@Overmind One , have any of my questions been answered in an ep and i just missed it? or are the answers all up to viewer supposition? maybe in some graphic novel, book or comic? video game? i am being serious...if this IS THE CASE--answers to these questions and others in tie in merch--then CBS is taking a dead rip from disney with their scheme with SW's

that is, make a show/movie watchable as is, but if you got questions then ya gotta pay for the answers (or google them when they become available)

---------------
and i am not saying PICARD is bad, just that watching it is like eating soggy white bread with no toppings or drinking a diet sparkling water..all BLAHHHHHHHH tasteless and boring

the ONLY trek i have ever fallen asleep to before were eps from TNG S1

This show answers nothing at all! They jump right into the story without addressing the GLARING flaws in the very premise of the thing. And the "tie-in merch". They have less than 5 licensees. Here is what they have:

https://shop.startrek.com/collections/star-trek-picard

The "Chateau Picard wine" is a cheap varietal comparable to $5.00 wine from 7-Eleven. And they are selling t-shirts and that cheap double ring necklace. But no action figures, no Funko POPs, no ship models or prop replicas, nothing. Why? Because none of the usual licensees WANT to sell anything for this dumb show.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Hi!

I disagree that just because it has been some time since TNG and VOY that the showrunners can just use characters and have them be completely out of character with no explanation. Sorry but this "Picard" character feels completely wrong - he does not act or think like Jean Luc Picard from the series and films and in fact he has a different personality. Ditto Seven of Nine and in fact every character they have brought back.

Obviously a series set in the future for the franchise like Picard can and should break new ground. But it needs to have a cogent and logical explanation that is believable in the context of what came before of how we got to this new place. Otherwise it just breaks the willing suspension of disbelief.

I'm not going to respond to Overmind's posts regarding this show.

Picard used to be a captain on a star ship, with specific duties aligned to that. He later became an admiral, which comes with an entirely different set of duties, less limited in information. Such a change requires one to change their perspective on things. Then it turned out that the federation was not what he had believed it to be for his entire life as things went sideways on a massive scale. Still holding true to his core values, he desperately tried playing his last card, which was to offer his resignation. Given his record of service, he had not expected this to be accepted, yet to his great disappointment, it was. Many years went by, as parts of the federation fell into disarray, Picard being forced to stand by idly. These events, combined with the added life experience from aging, are things which would have definitely changed Picard's perspective on things. From what has been going on in the show, it is clear that Picard still remains true to his core values. Since the status quo is however radically different from what it used to be, he is forced to act differently, in order to navigate the obstacles which stand in the way of completing his new personal mission. He has gotten quite old and it is therefore plausible to believe that he is more than ever willing to die for his beliefs, as he has already lived a full life, and the values he always held high are not being respected by others. This last thing has not (yet) been hinted at in the show, but is something I'm personally adding from my perspective on Picard's character, based on both past and present events. The way Picard is portrayed in this new show, is completely believable to me. To me, the statement that Picard is "out of character", is unreasonable. Patrick Stewart has also said that he was not intent on continuing to portray his character and to tell as much to the PTB when they invited him. He was however swayed by the new direction they wanted to take his character in. If therefore everything had remained the same as it was during TNG, there wouldn't have even been a new show.

 

[YJ02]

This show answers nothing at all!

that IS what I said

it not only fails to answers the expected questions --like what has picard been doing all this time.as well as the other characters. but it fails to provide any back story for the re-introduced characters like 7 or Hugh

they just get air lifted into the show filling roles any new or "uncredited actor" character could have done

the closest we get to 7's motivation for shooting up the bar is her anger over Icheb's murder. but that is all we get--so far at least-- of her "what i have been doing since voyager came back home" story

and a search for any "official answer" just brings up more BS

Like this video--- it is a companion to PICARD on CBS, a bit like talking dead is for TWD-- in it we see even Ryan doesn't know what her character has been doing and we hear more crap from Wheaton like "until i watched this episode i never saw the borg has victims.. now i feel like such a (implies being un woke) asshole"

that is just wrong-- VOYAGER had plenty of scenes, dialogue even whole episodes dedicated to how individual borg were victims. whether it was on 7 herself, the disconnected free borg Chakotay found, Icheb and the kids... it was all there- talk of being victims


and other then fan sites
, no place "official" on the net is giving any real negative criticism to this show.

 

[YJ02]

vulcan is hotter then earth and probably has a far higher UV index, and if she is a Romulan in disguise.. same thing

neither Species should have any aversion to sunlight--- unless she is a Reman.. now that would be a twist

 

[YJ02]

and i apologize for going on about this, but from everything i look up about supernova in real time..that is what we as humans actual know about them now-all info indicates that the Romulans would have known about the incoming event even far before the events of ENTERPRISE

IS this a correct assessment based on our real-world understanding of a super nova?

if so, then back to the story...why would the original romulans-outcasts from Vulcan who obviously had enough knowledge for deep space travel and the knowledge of the galaxy that comes with it- like super novas- have selected that star system for settlement? wouldn't an expanding sun have been detected even thousands of yrs ago when they first arrived there?

i know this issue is not the fault of ST PICARD but rather with JJ's film. but there were so many other things they could have used for this show-they could have ignored romulans all together

Picard has a far more connective past with the Klingons. even serving as a type of klingon official, they could have them capturing the borg cube

 

[YJ02]

I'm not going to respond to Overmind's posts regarding this show.

Picard used to be a captain on a star ship, with specific duties aligned to that. He later became an admiral, which comes with an entirely different set of duties, less limited in information. Such a change requires one to change their perspective on things. Then it turned out that the federation was not what he had believed it to be for his entire life as things went sideways on a massive scale. Still holding true to his core values, he desperately tried playing his last card, which was to offer his resignation. Given his record of service, he had not expected this to be accepted, yet to his great disappointment, it was. Many years went by, as parts of the federation fell into disarray, Picard being forced to stand by idly. These events, combined with the added life experience from aging, are things which would have definitely changed Picard's perspective on things. From what has been going on in the show, it is clear that Picard still remains true to his core values. Since the status quo is however radically different from what it used to be, he is forced to act differently, in order to navigate the obstacles which stand in the way of completing his new personal mission. He has gotten quite old and it is therefore plausible to believe that he is more than ever willing to die for his beliefs, as he has already lived a full life, and the values he always held high are not being respected by others. This last thing has not (yet) been hinted at in the show, but is something I'm personally adding from my perspective on Picard's character, based on both past and present events. The way Picard is portrayed in this new show, is completely believable to me. To me, the statement that Picard is "out of character", is unreasonable. Patrick Stewart has also said that he was not intent on continuing to portray his character and to tell as much to the PTB when they invited him. He was however swayed by the new direction they wanted to take his character in. If therefore everything had remained the same as it was during TNG, there wouldn't have even been a new show.

i completely agree with all of this.. in many ways this older Picard is much like the Luke Skywalker in EP8

NEITHER OF THEM are acceptable to fans because of what we already know about each character

but in a real world sense-which,as humans, both Picard and Skywalker would not be immune to- the physical,mental and emotional degradation of age and the changing perceptions that result after being so long 'divorced' from something like a career in Starfleet or as an active member of the Rebels in SW's would reveal via reflection,are believable

so, i can accept a picard as he is

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Regarding the subject of astronomy, there is actually nothing we humans know for sure. All we have are theories and supposition. Some theories appear really good, but none of them are 100% air-tight or definitively proven. Of what is out there in the universe and the processes which are on-going and how those processes work, we know basically next to nothing. There are plausible suppositions regarding how stars and planets form for example, but we do not have concrete knowledge. Everything in the field of astronomy is tied together by less-than-100%-certainties. Every theory we do hold true in the field of physics has been derived from our earth-based perspective. Who is to say that outside of the sphere of influence of our sun, the forces of physics aren't different from how we observe them to be from here. And even if we do manage to venture well outside our solar system and run all kinds of experiments, who is to say that a completely different set of "rules" of physics doesn't apply in other parts of our universe. For us to therefore say that a supernova could not happen suddenly because there would always be warning well in advance, is just arrogant. No matter how much "evidence" you stack up against it, there can't be certainty about it.

 

[YJ02]

Regarding the subject of astronomy, there is actually nothing we humans know for sure. All we have are theories and supposition. Some theories appear really good, but none of them are 100% air-tight or definitively proven. Of what is out there in the universe and the processes which are on-going and how those processes work, we know basically next to nothing. There are plausible suppositions regarding how stars and planets form for example, but we do not have concrete knowledge. Everything in the field of astronomy is tied together by less-than-100%-certainties. Every theory we do hold true in the field of physics has been derived from our earth-based perspective. Who is to say that outside of the sphere of influence of our sun, the forces of physics aren't different from how we observe them to be from here. And even if we do manage to venture well outside our solar system and run all kinds of experiments, who is to say that a completely different set of "rules" of physics doesn't apply in other parts of our universe. For us to therefore say that a supernova could not happen suddenly because there would always be warning well in advance, is just arrogant. No matter how much "evidence" you stack up against it, there can't be certainty about it.

i agree, science will always advance and make new discoveries and refinements of current understandings

however, just based on what we do know now about stars, wouldn't a ppl like the romulans-even at the state of scientific development they were when they emigrated to Romulus, known that the star was in a state of expansion?

there are just certain things -objective truths (even if that truth is not all knowing to us ) that must be adhered to for sci fi. if TPTB's go too far afield of this and use no basis at all in current science it ceases being sci fi and becomes subjective fiction-like star wars

 

[YJ02]

ok,, crazy, outside darkhorse bets on what may happen in PICARD, time

i am putting out one now---

either in the course of the show- like next season, or at its end, Picard will be near death and he will have his consciousness uploaded into a synthetic body

an apex of his human and borg experience and his affinity for Data all purpose built into a machine that is part Soong synth and part Borg

mark your calendars folks!!

 

[Lord Ba'al]

i agree, science will always advance and make new discoveries and refinements of current understandings

Indeed.

however, just based on what we do know now about stars, wouldn't a ppl like the romulans-even at the state of scientific development they were when they emigrated to Romulus, known that the star was in a state of expansion?

This is still based on the supposition that a star always follows the same process before exploding into a supernova.

there are just certain things -objective truths (even if that truth is not all knowing to us ) that must be adhered to for sci fi. if TPTB's go too far afield of this and use no basis at all in current science it ceases being sci fi and becomes subjective fiction-like star wars

All sci-fi shows are subjective fiction, as you call it. Some perhaps more than others. What they actually are, is a form of entertainment, nothing more, nothing less.

"People" seem to hold Star Trek in high regard for being cerebral. Therefore, they complain about things which in their eyes don't line up with their perspective on the show. For all sci-fi shows, a degree of suspension of disbelief needs to be observed in order to be able to enjoy it. For some more than for others. It is, after all, FICTION. For example. Everyone here appears to have enjoyed Stargate. But there is an awful lot in Stargate which is complete and uther fabrication. There are moments in Stargate where the Asgard or even Sam blow up a sun, in the blink of an eye. Why is there no "outrage" over this, yet at the same time, it is too difficult to accept that somehow the Romulan sun could have suddenly exploded? "People" are also lyrical about The Expanse for being so realistic. The spaceships move in a realistic way, which was not seen before in other sci-fi shows. Do the spaceships (or shuttles) in Star Trek move in a realistic way? I don't believe they do. Yet, I don't care, I just enjoy the show for what it is, as does everyone else who likes Star Trek.

The reason why Star Trek is observed as "cerebral" has nothing to do with the so called "science" within the show. The science is a load of bullocks. It's cerebral because it manages to weave in societal issues in a way which is usually not blatantly overt and it shows how such issues could be approached and resolved in a civilized manner. Talk about how the show is cerebral because of "the science" is merely a misconception. Sure, it took concepts from the field of astrophysics which were being talked about in the scientific field. But I'm sure that if you take those concepts from the old shows and ask current experts in the field to comment on them, a lot of it would now be perceived as out-dated or as plain misconceptions. Just like our modern day theories may someday be proven to be ridiculous.

 

[YJ02]

This is still based on the supposition that a star always follows the same process before exploding into a supernova.

is there any established science that indicates they do not (this is a question)?

"People" seem to hold Star Trek in high regard for being cerebral. Therefore, they complain about things which in their eyes don't line up with their perspective on the show.

a big part of this for the new ST shows is the inclusion of actual sex scenes-as opposed to implied sex in older trek

also the displays of actual day to day emotional response and the being human part of the characters has not been in previous trek shows--some of the trek movies did a bit of this, like Picard's reaction to his family'd death

in a way TNG, DS9 and VOYAGER subdued these real human emotions-as if somehow in 300 yrs humanity will loose its humanity and our emotions will be tamped down


But there is still no excuse for the utter failure (so far) in not presenting backstories and character motivations (other then Picard's own) in PICARD

 

[Overmind One]

is there any established science that indicates they do not (this is a question)?


a big part of this for the new ST shows is the inclusion of actual sex scenes-as opposed to implied sex in older trek

also the displays of actual day to day emotional response and the being human part of the characters has not been in previous trek shows--some of the trek movies did a bit of this, like Picard's reaction to his family'd death

in a way TNG, DS9 and VOYAGER subdued these real human emotions-as if somehow in 300 yrs humanity will loose its humanity and our emotions will be tamped down


But there is still no excuse for the utter failure (so far) in not presenting backstories and character motivations (other then Picard's own) in PICARD

The precursors of a supernova are consistent. The star goes through a series of changes that can be measured and visually observed many years before the explosion.

https://phys.org/news/2020-02-physicists-supernovae-result-pulsating-supergiants.html

First though, we have to know that only certain types of stars can supernova, and yellow and white dwarfs are not part of that group. The star at the core of our own solar system and also that of Romulus is a yellow dwarf. Such stars cannot supernova (not enough mass). The Romulan supernova is nonsense.

 

[Overmind One]

that IS what I said

it not only fails to answers the expected questions --like what has picard been doing all this time.as well as the other characters. but it fails to provide any back story for the re-introduced characters like 7 or Hugh

they just get air lifted into the show filling roles any new or "uncredited actor" character could have done

the closest we get to 7's motivation for shooting up the bar is her anger over Icheb's murder. but that is all we get--so far at least-- of her "what i have been doing since voyager came back home" story

and a search for any "official answer" just brings up more BS

Like this video--- it is a companion to PICARD on CBS, a bit like talking dead is for TWD-- in it we see even Ryan doesn't know what her character has been doing and we hear more crap from Wheaton like "until i watched this episode i never saw the borg has victims.. now i feel like such a (implies being un woke) asshole"

that is just wrong-- VOYAGER had plenty of scenes, dialogue even whole episodes dedicated to how individual borg were victims. whether it was on 7 herself, the disconnected free borg Chakotay found, Icheb and the kids... it was all there- talk of being victims


and other then fan sites
, no place "official" on the net is giving any real negative criticism to this show.

There is nothing "official" on the net backing up any success of this show either. That is because the numbers are really really bad. The talk over at ViacomCBS is basically that when the CBS All Access service is rolled into the new service being put together, all shows will be re-evaluated and at least one new one will be developed to act as a tentpole for the new service. It will not be Kurtzman's Star Trek.

 

[YJ02]

why did I hear Maddox telling Dr Jurati about his working with a Soong? i didn't know there were any surviving members of the family?

 

[YJ02]

There is nothing "official" on the net backing up any success of this show either. That is because the numbers are really really bad. The talk over at ViacomCBS is basically that when the CBS All Access service is rolled into the new service being put together, all shows will be re-evaluated and at least one new one will be developed to act as a tentpole for the new service. It will not be Kurtzman's Star Trek.

with all the bad and so-so sci fi of the last decade or so, i am conflicted

on one hand, I want someone to like the bad stuff i hate-- get the shows some kind of decent numbers so that studio money ppl will see there is a future in making sci fi. take the criticisms to tweek their products and make them better

if everything they do is hated and only 1 or 2 shows are actually accepted as good or great, then why would studios continue to invest in a genre where it seems obvious they cannot deliver the goods on? if they cant make sci fi fans satisfied, then why keep spending money trying?

on the other hand, i get tired of drudging through the sludge --to include the pre-emptive 'fandom' doom-dom based on trailers that has become a facet of the process-- of new show anticipation, only to be left with the feeling of " i waited for this, what exactly DID I wait for?" and "I cant believe i used up 10 minutes of my life laying down that insane 'what if?' fan theory on gatefans"

back to PICARD itself-- I criticized HARD the fandom lettuce for being so doom cocky on the show well before it premiered

got to give a show a chance, you cannot predetermine based on a trailer that some topic dispassionate douche at the studio put together

but now that it has arrived, and as I said earlier, the show does little for me other then it is yet another ""well, its something to watch"" but I still stand by my dislike for the FM

for me, this has been going on since SGU and BSG;BLOOD AND CHROME and nearly every show since with just a few exceptions (expanse, 12 monkeys, the 100, dark matter, etc)-- lots of hype and expectations realized to little puffs of smoke coming out of my TV upon viewing

this kind of shit has reduced me to spending 3 months two winters ago binging all 16 seasons of HELLS KITCHEN

this is a big reason why i have gotten so heavy into reading actual books again for entertainment-- oh and watching well made travel vlogs on YT!

Can you pick up on what I am laying down?

 

[Overmind One]

why did I hear Maddox telling Dr Jurati about his working with a Soong? i didn't know there were any surviving members of the family?

You are correct. Yet another example of why this show sucks.