Lord Ba'al
Well Known GateFan
The Klingons in TNG were way different from the ones in TOS and that wasn't a problem, but somehow the Klingons in STD being different is.
Star Trek Discovery SUCKS.
- Thread starter Overmind One
- Start date
It wasn't a problem because they weren't that much different. They were darker skinned, and had dark hair, and the culture of the Klingons in TOS and in TNG were the same. Discovery changed the Klingons MASSIVELY. They not only looked completely different, but their entire culture was changed into something else. What made it a dealbreaker was that Discovery was supposed to be in the Trek timeline before Kirk and Spock. There was no way around trampling canon with such a heavy handed change. Even the Season 2 Discovery Klingons were too different.
Lord Ba'al
Well Known GateFan
The TOS Klingons were basically humans with some facial hair stuck on them and raggedy clothes, if I remember correctly. I'd say the difference between that and TNG Klingons is just as big as the difference between TNG and STD Klingons.
The Klingon TOS culture and TNG culture were very similar. The appearance change was more dramatic but fit the culture. Plot wise the main add TNG did (and it was an add as it in no way contradicted TOS) was fleshing out the code of honor and explaining Kahless and such. STDs Klingons had drastic appearance changes and also drastic culture changes. Plus it didn’t help that the visual changes made it all but impossible to read emotions from the actors, the language was changed into something unintelligible and combined with the bizarre change in outfits they looked more like Cenobites from Hellraiser than Klingons.
Lord Ba'al
Well Known GateFan
The Klingon language in STD was less intelligible than the Klingon language in TNG? I never even considered being interested in trying to learn Klingon (no offense to people who do) so to me they both sound as a bunch of random crap.
This tells me that you probably did not watch TOS much. Is that true?
Lord Ba'al
Well Known GateFan
That is true. I watched the whole thing once, maybe twice. I do know that I watched it once and didn't finish it. So maybe 1.5 or 2.5 times.
Okay, well that explains it. In a nutshell, the whole honor culture and aggression over diplomacy angle of government we saw played out as the Klingon culture in TNG is carried over from the Klingons we met in TOS. Everything from the carrying of blade weapons, the traditional wearing of facial hair (beards and moustaches) by Klingon males, to the warrior female archetype was Klingon culture in TOS and was carried over. All that really changed for The Next Generation for the Klingons was the skull ridges. BTW, the sash Worf is wearing is the SAME one seen in the TOS picture of Kor. Note the arched eyebrows too. As you can see, not really that much different. Later seasons of TNG refined the look in an organic way, giving them longer hair and more ornate costumes as Klingons. We saw the Klingon culture fleshed out with Houses, and families, and rites of succession. The episode "Trials and Tribbilations" in Deep Space Nine helped tie it all together. Discovery threw all of that away.
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It's an actual language, and has an actual character alphabet and grammar. It was invented by James Doohan.
So....maybe no Season 3 for Discovery after all? Licensees reject Picard and Netflix refuses to carry it? 
Good video. Don't know if Gary's source is 100% correct but it is true that STD has had zero merchandising agreements and without them is missing a key revenue stream. We know that adult SciFi can and does get merchandising products as NuBSG has had video and board games and also resin models of the ships.
Jim of WVa
Well Known GateFan
This was posted here already a few weeks back, but it is good to post it again. That video is probably the most comprehensive explanation of what happened to the Star Trek IP and why there is this dumb "alternate license".
Simply put CBS dare not cancel it because to do so would be a tacit admission that All Access is a failure as well as their vision for Star Trek (such as it is). Hence their hiding of the subscriber numbers as well as financials that make it impossible to tell if All Access is running a profit.
It won't be until Picard fails that CBS decides to wash it's hands of Kurtzman. The clock is ticking on his 5-year contract gotten as a last swipe from Les Moonves before leaving. Nobody yet knows the nature of that agreement in terms of Star Trek. Too many secrets.
Is there anything to salvage?
What I don't understand is why anyone thought it was a good idea to throw Discovery 1000 years into the future. Several things come to mind immediately. First of all, why would the future want Discovery in their timeframe anyway? In the Kurtzmanverse, time travel is used willy nilly and if he is still claiming that Discovery is from the same timeline as the TOS Star Trek, then that means the future where the U.S.S. Relativity lives (and the Traveler and Q) would not take kindly to an incursion from the past. How relevant would a 1000 year old ship full of incompetent Star Trek crew members be in 1000 years? It would be like horse and buggy showing up on a freeway in 2019. They would only be in the way. Or, they would be a curiosity fit for some sort of museum. Nothing on Discovery would be worth anything to people of the future. Would the Discovery break the Prime Directive and only contact pre-warp civilizations? What if the Federation has been taken over? Wouldn't the Traveler or the Relativity intervene and throw them back to the past?
It is possible that it could still be canceled, even with the greenlight. If Nerdrotic is correct, then filming has been halted and they may cut and run. It has been done before!
It is possible that it could still be canceled, even with the greenlight. If Nerdrotic is correct, then filming has been halted and they may cut and run. It has been done before!
They are scrambling to find creative ways to save their Star Trek because without a Bad Robot/Secret Hideout version of Star Trek out there, everything created from the 2009 movie forward becomes null and void. All that would be left is those Kelvin movies and Discovery and the Short Treks, as well as the already existing (and sucky) Kelvin-era toys. That is why Kurtzman speaks of the "long future for Star Trek". What he really is referring to is the fake Kelvin and Discovery timelines and their characters. This also means the new Picard show which evidently is already sucking even before it airs. JUST LIKE DISCOVERY. He does not seem to realize the fact that Star Trek fans do not like his work on any Star Trek. This means present AND future. His take on it sucks, and as long as he is the one saying what the take is, it will suck.
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