Resurrecting the Wooly Mammoth

[YJ02]

According to this article, the US ban on ivory is "near total"

ONCE AGAIN--geesh man, keep repeating this that is elephant and rhino ivory only that enjoys-well probably now that china has banned it-a worldwide ban

Mammoth ivory is only banned in california, new jersey,new york and hawaii. any other state where it was tried, the legislation died in committee, lost in a vote or was turned over by state courts

http://www.aaps-journal.org/fossil-ivory-legislation.html

<<weird note--it appears washington state still allows the import and sale of elephant ivory so long as it can be certified to have come from a no kill harvest---now that must have took some hard core lobbying there!! >>

 

[Overmind One]

only in 4 US states, Israel and maybe one or two other nations

the rest of america, canada, europe --the 'advanced western nations' as they are called-all allow the import export of mammoth tusk

some, like canada, require permits for export, but only has about 3 enforcement agents who have no powers of arrest. they are only allowed to 'encourage' ppl they catch without a permit to donate the tusks to science


and..what i have neglected to state.. I don't think it right or wrong..just stating that it is a thing. and quite profitable at that. especially AMONG NATIVE peoples of Siberia and Alaska and Canada. does anyone want to be seen as abridging the right of oppressed native peoples to earn a living?

seems a chinese commissioned study estimates a 50 year supply of mammoth tusk from siberia alone. does not include any from alaska or canada or elsewhere in central asia where they apparently found at higher elevations

the demand is going to exist for with many people, like those who buy stuff like this for status symbol and to show off their wealth. a growing trend in many developing nations.

better they do this then kill living animals like elephants, narwhal, walrus and rhino to get ivory

The only use for ivory is decorative. As such, I have no interest in it or the people who collect it. I think I should just jump off this particular topic. I can't stop thinking about how miserable and cruel the life of the baby mammoth is going to be, the prodding and poking, people staring at it all the time, no family or others of it's kind to keep it company. And in the end, all of the mammoths which come after will be cattle.

 

[Overmind One]

ONCE AGAIN--geesh man, keep repeating this that is elephant and rhino ivory only that enjoys-well probably now that china has banned it-a worldwide ban

Mammoth ivory is only banned in california, new jersey,new york and hawaii. any other state where it was tried, the legislation died in committee, lost in a vote or was turned over by state courts

http://www.aaps-journal.org/fossil-ivory-legislation.html

<<weird note--it appears washington state still allows the import and sale of elephant ivory so long as it can be certified to have come from a no kill harvest---now that must have took some hard core lobbying there!! >>

Whatevs. I am 100% against everything having to do with this.

 

[YJ02]

Please show me proof of that. Here is mine

this is from your link---again, for african elephants (guess they said "f you" to asian ones?) DOES NOT cover mammoth ivory or surprisingly rhino, walrus or narwhal ivory. the latter two will probably NEVER be banned by anyone because they constitute a signif portion of native ppl's income and are traditional practices

"The regulations, which take effect on July 6, amount to a near-total ban on the commercial trade of African elephant ivory"

also, seems only those 4 states have totally banned ivory sales. this new US law still allows the sale of old ivory (pre 1976)

" What if your neighbor wants to buy the ivory trinket? That could be legal—but only if you don’t live in one of the four states that has banned the sale of ivory: New Jersey, California, Washington, and New York."

let me state again. I do not believe in killing living animals just to make trinkets or art of any type. If native peoples (eskimo, inuit, siberians, greenlanders,etc) want to be treated equally in the modern world they should be restricted as well

so, can you please stop saying i support killing Dumbo for his tusks?

 

[YJ02]

Trophy imports are unlimited

hopefully, but doubtful...yes 'normal' people do not want them, but, who does?

who does big game trophy hunting? as in, who has the money for it? Major political campaign donors to both sides, that's who --sorry to use the 'p' word, but i do not see any other reason why it would still be allowed

 

[Overmind One]

hopefully, but doubtful...yes 'normal' people do not want them, but, who does?

who does big game trophy hunting? as in, who has the money for it? Major political campaign donors to both sides, that's who --sorry to use the 'p' word, but i do not see any other reason why it would still be allowed

Hunting for anything other than sustenance or population control is disgusting. Money has nothing to do with it.

 

[Overmind One]

this is from your link---again, for african elephants (guess they said "f you" to asian ones?) DOES NOT cover mammoth ivory or surprisingly rhino, walrus or narwhal ivory. the latter two will probably NEVER be banned by anyone because they constitute a signif portion of native ppl's income and are traditional practices

"The regulations, which take effect on July 6, amount to a near-total ban on the commercial trade of African elephant ivory"

also, seems only those 4 states have totally banned ivory sales. this new US law still allows the sale of old ivory (pre 1976)

" What if your neighbor wants to buy the ivory trinket? That could be legal—but only if you don’t live in one of the four states that has banned the sale of ivory: New Jersey, California, Washington, and New York."

let me state again. I do not believe in killing living animals just to make trinkets or art of any type. If native peoples (eskimo, inuit, siberians, greenlanders,etc) want to be treated equally in the modern world they should be restricted as well

so, can you please stop saying i support killing Dumbo for his tusks?

Ivory has no use for anything other than trinkets. Some big, some small, but trinkets just the same. I do not even want to know anyone who collects ivory.

EDIT: I do have a longtime friend, very wealthy, who does have some ivory pieces and a piano with genuine ivory keys. But he is not buying it still.

 

[Overmind One]

hopefully, but doubtful...yes 'normal' people do not want them, but, who does?

who does big game trophy hunting? as in, who has the money for it? Major political campaign donors to both sides, that's who --sorry to use the 'p' word, but i do not see any other reason why it would still be allowed

You could narrow that group down even more specifically, very easily. But I won't go there.

 

[YJ02]

And in the end, all of the mammoths which come after will be cattle.

precisely--the whole project is purpose driven to 'save' the planet

 

[YJ02]

Money has nothing to do with it

you have to have some big expendable stacks to go big game trophy hunting

and, if you want to be able to continue doing so and be able to bring your trophy back legally, you'll need some cash to keep it that way via lobbying, etc,etc

 

[YJ02]

what i don't get is why we-as a nation and many other nations--say that big game trophy hunting is so bad yet we do next to nothing to recruit ,train and equip african and other nations' game wardens

we train spend on their army, their infrastructures, medicine, water wells but little or nothing on protecting these animals

also, in places like Thailand, tree pirates from Cambodia come in and illegally cut rosewood trees--again, a high value export to china where it is turned into expensive furniture and musical instruments. The thai game wardens/ forest rangers have about 50 ppl to cover the entire country. they are equipped with old rifles and not enough ammo and the loggers have machine guns and mortars to protect themselves from the rangers. no funding for them from anywhere

yet we bitch and moan about how the rosewood is being cut illegally

either intervene all the way by building a police forest for game and forestry or shut up

 

[YJ02]

i looked at that link again on the US ivory ban

still looks like asian elephants--and yes, they do have tusks-males only--are left out in the cold. why overlook them? because it is china's "backyard"?

and why is rhino ivory not covered? narwhal and walrus?

though it is a good cause i smell a 'save the polar bears daddy' type of emotional reason behind this legislation encased in a good cause. i mean, how many ppl even know what a narwhal is? it is hardly the sexy 'poster child' for save the earther/MMCC believer causes now is it?

added to as i said before- they are mainly hunted by native peoples and curtailing their livelihoods would not play well


again -all in with legislation/enforcement or don't play at all

 

[Rac80]

this is from your link---again, for african elephants (guess they said "f you" to asian ones?) DOES NOT cover mammoth ivory or surprisingly rhino, walrus or narwhal ivory. the latter two will probably NEVER be banned by anyone because they constitute a signif portion of native ppl's income and are traditional practices

"The regulations, which take effect on July 6, amount to a near-total ban on the commercial trade of African elephant ivory"

also, seems only those 4 states have totally banned ivory sales. this new US law still allows the sale of old ivory (pre 1976)

" What if your neighbor wants to buy the ivory trinket? That could be legal—but only if you don’t live in one of the four states that has banned the sale of ivory: New Jersey, California, Washington, and New York."

let me state again. I do not believe in killing living animals just to make trinkets or art of any type. If native peoples (eskimo, inuit, siberians, greenlanders,etc) want to be treated equally in the modern world they should be restricted as well

so, can you please stop saying i support killing Dumbo for his tusks?

I thought it would be his ears!

I see all this as feel good environmentalism, but no real interest in really saving these animals! I agree we need to fork over money to train & adequately arm hundreds of wardens. Give them plenty of additional equipment as well. Put our money where our bleeding hearts are!

 

[YJ02]

Give them plenty of additional equipment as well. Put our money where our bleeding hearts are!

exactly!

I see all this as feel good environmentalism, but no real interest in really saving these animals!

yup, as i said, a purpose driven experiment that they have stated is for 'saving the tundra' and assisting in defeating MMCC

I want to know about all that methane these mammoths and the other large herbivores (already at work on the tundra) like the bison are going to be releasing?

I mean, the enviro crowd claims that all of those cows we raise for food is putting too much methane into the atmosphere; so how would animals that are 3-4 times their size going impact?

are they going to buy carbon offsets?
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btw--I forgot to note before that this Russian/Chinese mammoth resurrection team is predicting a fully functioning-with animals in various age groups- and breeding herd with 50 yrs

 

[YJ02]

I thought it would be his ears!

too tough and chewy

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Whatevs.

Whatevs? Have you been watching too many sparkly vampire shows?

 

[Overmind One]

Whatevs? Have you been watching too many sparkly vampire shows?

Listening to hipsters.

 

[YJ02]

Listening to hipsters.

because he has been hanging out at starbucks

 

[YJ02]

Mammoths ARE elephants

now you are splitting mammoth wool!

LIVING ELEPHANTS

As of now, all mammoths are long dead and buried.

 

[YJ02]

How long before Neanderthal

No need! Neanderthal is in nearly all of us with ANY European, middle eastern or Asian DNA in us.

before long, they will be able to test to see who, if anyone, also has any Denisovan bits as well