THE EXPANSE --it's premise, plot and socio-political implications

[YJ02]

I -think- it is a situation of "just enjoying it as it is" dude, not everyone wants to rip everything to shreds.
Granted, we do tend to do it -a lot-

it is not about ripping to shreds

i love this show--so far, fingers crossed

but the socio-politico, corporate and military aspects of the show ARE the core of it

if one ignores those aspects then THERE IS little to speak of except the cast's clothing, their patois, and shipping

 

[YJ02]

This is not Earth politics and not contemporary politics. Part of what is becoming apparent is that there is another party influencing events that is neither Earth, Mars or OPA. It was that unknown party who destroyed the ice freighter in the opener and who has what appears to be the bioweapon. Holden with his transmission in Episode 2 inadvertently has people thinking Mars destroyed the ice freighter and briefly the UN also thought so but they were able to ascertain it wasn't Mars before war broke out. Add to this mix the OPA who not only have possessions in the solar system but who the belters are rallying around.

This does not resemble current Earth politics. If anything, it reminds me of the Classic Doctor Who multipart episode Frontier in Space. And in this respect GF is correct, let's take the show on its own terms instead of trying to turn it into a commentary on contemporary politics - which both the book authors and series writers have stated it is not.

yes IT IS NOT the politics nor the political science of today

but rather, it is a good assumption of what today's political, social, economic, corporate and military policies COULD EVOLVE INTO if they stay on the path they are on right now

those links of real-time space mining companies I put up earlier? Did you read them?

At least one of them could EASILY evolve into the "Kleen and Pur (or Pur and kleen?)" space supply and mining company in the show

 

[YJ02]

Totally guessing here-but I am thinking that the only thing that will bring humanity back together will be the discovery of the 'stargate' type gates

there has NEVER BEEN ANYTHING better to bring humans together then an external threat

 

[YJ02]

I believe EC took his toys and ran home. Some people cannot survive in a forum like this which is not heavily censored and moderated in a draconian way.

So be it if true

but could we please NOT kick "dead bodies" this time?

 

[Joelist]

Okay let's try this again.

What I was trying to say (clumsily) was that the show is not a commentary on contemporary politics or economics, and trying to make it one was causing the thread to constantly move off topic into discussing (arguing about ) contemporary politics.

Does it have politics? Of course it does but those politics are its own politics not the politics we have today. You have something reminiscent of a Cold War between Mars and Earth and you have unrest in the belt where they provide materials to Earth but now (partly because of abuse) want to be independent of the UN. Throw into this mix the OPA which is both an advocacy group and a political unit in its own right (they are the defacto government of Tycho station, which is the largest and most advanced mobile construction platform in the solar system).

And now into this stew is being thrown an unknown new party. This party both destroyed the Canterbury and then attacked the Mars warship which had rescued the Canterbury survivors. I am guessing it is the same group that destroyed the ship the missing girl was on at the very start of the series.

 

[Overmind One]

it is not about ripping to shreds

i love this show--so far, fingers crossed

but the socio-politico, corporate and military aspects of the show ARE the core of it

if one ignores those aspects then THERE IS little to speak of except the cast's clothing, their patois, and shipping

Im all caught up now, and yes the bolded is definitely the case. This is a socio-political scifi thriller, and that makes it different than other recent space opera like BSG. It is heavy on the interpersonal relationships, but it avoids the soap aspect of that by making those relationships political in nature (based in allegiances and not emotions). There is no way around the heavy political messages in the show, and they are not today's political issues, but they are still in today's political framework. Also, I noticed that they have Muslims and Mormons in this show. The Mormons even have speaking parts and are intending to colonize another planet? Why even have them in the show, unless the writers has an interest in them?

A little more research on the book Leviathan Wakes (the book that this series is based on) reveals what the source of the mysterious tech that these marauders are using is. I won't spoil it, but we are NOT going to get aliens in this series. Perhaps some alien tech, but not actual aliens.

 

[Joelist]

I also read ahead a bit....and like the alien concept as presented. And lest we forget the books are not completed so there is time for meeting aliens yet.

 

[Overmind One]

Okay let's try this again.

What I was trying to say (clumsily) was that the show is not a commentary on contemporary politics or economics, and trying to make it one was causing the thread to constantly move off topic into discussing (arguing about ) contemporary politics.

Nobody was saying this was contemporary politics. But it is definitely using the contemporary political framework. That meaning that there are definite "nations" which are sovereign and separate from each other politically, and the relationship between them is the same as that between say...the US and China and Russia

Does it have politics? Of course it does but those politics are its own politics not the politics we have today. You have something reminiscent of a Cold War between Mars and Earth and you have unrest in the belt where they provide materials to Earth but now (partly because of abuse) want to be independent of the UN. Throw into this mix the OPA which is both an advocacy group and a political unit in its own right (they are the defacto government of Tycho station, which is the largest and most advanced mobile construction platform in the solar system).

See, you seem to be implying that the politics of the show are just a sidenote. What you describe in the rest of that paragraph is exactly why I see today's political framework in this show. The UN, corporations, the military and the labor force on Ceres is merely a future projection of today's global political structure. I personally do not see today's political framework surviving 200 years into the future. An ancient Greek writing science fiction might have imagined a futuristic pantheon of gods and a space-based version of the Olympic games (as an example). This series imagines that the sort of issues we have today will also be similar in the future. The politics in this show are it's core, not just a sidenote.

And now into this stew is being thrown an unknown new party. This party both destroyed the Canterbury and then attacked the Mars warship which had rescued the Canterbury survivors. I am guessing it is the same group that destroyed the ship the missing girl was on at the very start of the series.

Im thinking she is in on the secret of the new tech and where it came from.

 

[Overmind One]

I also read ahead a bit....and like the alien concept as presented. And lest we forget the books are not completed so there is time for meeting aliens yet.

I did too. Seems that the aliens might be long dead and it's their tech that has given the marauders the edge over the rest of the factions in the story. We shall see!

 

[Joelist]

Im all caught up now, and yes the bolded is definitely the case. This is a socio-political scifi thriller, and that makes it different than other recent space opera like BSG. It is heavy on the interpersonal relationships, but it avoids the soap aspect of that by making those relationships political in nature (based in allegiances and not emotions). There is no way around the heavy political messages in the show, and they are not today's political issues, but they are still in today's political framework. Also, I noticed that they have Muslims and Mormons in this show. The Mormons even have speaking parts and are intending to colonize another planet? Why even have them in the show, unless the writers has an interest in them?

A little more research on the book Leviathan Wakes (the book that this series is based on) reveals what the source of the mysterious tech that these marauders are using is. I won't spoil it, but we are NOT going to get aliens in this series. Perhaps some alien tech, but not actual aliens.

I'll agree to this. It is sci-fi with political elements and a touch of social mixed in, but as you say they are not today's political issues. Which is what I was trying to communicate.

 

[Overmind One]

I'll agree to this. It is sci-fi with political elements and a touch of social mixed in, but as you say they are not today's political issues. Which is what I was trying to communicate.

Then we are in agreement. I do like the show a lot. It is an adult show with nothing to appeal to children and I like that aspect of it too. It demands a certain level of intellect to understand the story and I like that. I also like the fact that we do not see super weapons or tech that is too far advanced (compared to today). Everything seems logically fast-forwarded into the future.

 

[YJ02]

I did too. Seems that the aliens might be long dead and it's their tech that has given the marauders the edge over the rest of the factions in the story. We shall see!

A tech the mormons may do anything to get a hold of to reach their new promised land quicker? A possible reason for the mormons being used to begin with?

 

[YJ02]

I'll agree to this. It is sci-fi with political elements and a touch of social mixed in, but as you say they are not today's political issues. Which is what I was trying to communicate.

i am pretty sure that the only person to say that it was "today's" poli issues is a person that is no longer commenting here

myself and OM have been consistently saying that it is a politic that may be a descendant of todays' policies and politics

it is the political science (vs politics-they are greatly different) at the base of the show's premise that we were pointing to

 

[Overmind One]

i am pretty sure that the only person to say that it was "today's" poli issues is a person that is no longer commenting here

myself and OM have been consistently saying that it is a politic that may be a descendant of todays' policies and politics

it is the political science (vs politics-they are greatly different) at the base of the show's premise that we were pointing to

Very well said.

 

[YJ02]

leaving politic-socio-economic issues out of the discussion for this show would be like saying that SG1 has nothing to do with the military

 

[Joelist]

leaving politic-socio-economic issues out of the discussion for this show would be like saying that SG1 has nothing to do with the military

But constantly trying to turn the show into a commentary on today's politics to the point of reading them into the story where they aren't there also creates issues.

 

[YJ02]

But constantly trying to turn the show into a commentary on today's politics to the point of reading them into the story where they aren't there also creates issues.

well then somebody--not you--was in total non-comprehension of the differences between what me and OM were typing versus what they thought/perceived we were typing

current politics in the show would have been like "Wow, Trump INC controls the UN"--or--"the Clinton Foundation is behind the OCA"

of course, nothing of the sort was typed--we may have used a "like" or "as" to compare and contrast today's political issues with those of the poli science arena in THE EXPANSE
------------------

or we could just stick with the passing variables of the episodes:

hey,was that guy in the Tycho bar a male prostitute?

or

just what was that patois phrase they were using?

yes-now that would be far more engaging

 

[Overmind One]

well then somebody--not you--was in total non-comprehension of the differences between what me and OM were typing versus what they thought/perceived we were typing

current politics in the show would have been like "Wow, Trump INC controls the UN"--or--"the Clinton Foundation is behind the OCA"

of course, nothing of the sort was typed--we may have used a "like" or "as" to compare and contrast today's political issues with those of the poli science arena in THE EXPANSE

It was the same thing as seeing 9/11 Truther messages in Star Trek Into Darkness even though they were in space. But the message WAS there. In this show, the politics are familiar, even if the players and the games are new. It's the same framework and has nothing to do with human nature and everything to do with modern politics.

or we could just stick with the passing variables of the episodes:

hey,was that guy in the Tycho bar a male prostitute?

or

just what was that patois phrase they were using?

yes-now that would be far more engaging

In THIS show, the politics of it are what makes it interesting. What else in the show besides the absolutely awesome portrayal of future tech and the ultra-realistic science we see in the show is there to talk about? Why do some people cringe at the mere thought of a political discourse? That attitude itself is a political stance!

 

[Joelist]

I agree the truther stuff in Into Darkness was nausea inducing (then again so was most of the film).

 

[Overmind One]

One thing I find annoying about this show is the consumption of alcohol. In every single episode, people are drinking alcohol (or appear to be). During the day, at night, at home, etc. Reminds me of the 1960s TV shows which showed alcohol consumption had cigarette smoking in every episode.

I like Detective Miller, but I don't think his cracked phone is cool. I have started rewatching the show already. It's really well done. I still do not understand how these ships are able to go from one place to another so quickly with the propulsion systems they are using. What are they? What is the tech?