THE EXPANSE --it's premise, plot and socio-political implications

[ecgordon]

"You can't really talk about the show without including it's politics."

I repeat, you're not talking about the show's politics, you're talking about current politics. Why can't you divorce the two?

As I've said a couple of times already, this is just a show, a fiction. Yes, it makes statements about governments, corporations, and individuals, but it's just in the context of how they have developed the plot they wish to tell. Years ago, on the old Sci-Fi forums, there was a sub-forum called Politics and Science Fiction. Very rarely was anyone talking specifically about the politics within a particular show, movie or book. It always devolved into squabbles about current politics. When Sci-Fi decided to delete that forum, a person I had corresponded with asked if I would host such a forum on my message board. Like an idiot I agreed, but it wasn't long before I realized my mistake.

I'm new around here, and I'm not going to track down all other conversations, but do you do this type of analysis on all shows? Early in this thread it was about not thinking we could get to this type of development of solar system exploration in the given time frame. This is set approximately the same time as was Babylon 5. Did you think that was ridiculous as well, or are you singling this show out for a particular reason? Are you the type of people that just have to discuss politics no matter what, whether it's relevant or not? There are over a billion Muslims in the world, but you don't want to see any such mention of them in future stories? Isn't that asking for fantasy, rather than realistic SF? If you insist on making this about the politics of today, I'm not interested in reading your opinions. I'm sure I won't be missed.

 

[Joelist]

What politics in any case? I already showed where we just don't know the whole situation and indeed that "reading in" had already been taking place, specifically in the case of how Ceres is run (it isn't run by a corporation but rather by the UN - Star Helix Security are rent-a-cops contracted by the UN).

All we really know about the political situation is Mars and Earth don't get along but have agreements and that the Belters feel the Inner Planets ( Mars and Earth) are taking advantage of them and some want independence and the OPA is the organized front for that.

 

[ecgordon]

Right. Why can't we just talk about the story within the show? I find it hard to understand why someone can't just watch a show for its entertainment value. If it has to be compared to your own narrow world view of the way things are or how you want them to be, can you ever really be satisfied with any show?

 

[YJ02]

I repeat, you're not talking about the show's politics, you're talking about current politics. Why can't you divorce the two?

As I've said a couple of times already, this is just a show, a fiction. Yes, it makes statements about governments, corporations, and individuals, but it's just in the context of how they have developed the plot they wish to tell. Years ago, on the old Sci-Fi forums, there was a sub-forum called Politics and Science Fiction. Very rarely was anyone talking specifically about the politics within a particular show, movie or book. It always devolved into squabbles about current politics. When Sci-Fi decided to delete that forum, a person I had corresponded with asked if I would host such a forum on my message board. Like an idiot I agreed, but it wasn't long before I realized my mistake.

I'm new around here, and I'm not going to track down all other conversations, but do you do this type of analysis on all shows? Early in this thread it was about not thinking we could get to this type of development of solar system exploration in the given time frame. This is set approximately the same time as was Babylon 5. Did you think that was ridiculous as well, or are you singling this show out for a particular reason? Are you the type of people that just have to discuss politics no matter what, whether it's relevant or not? There are over a billion Muslims in the world, but you don't want to see any such mention of them in future stories? Isn't that asking for fantasy, rather than realistic SF? If you insist on making this about the politics of today, I'm not interested in reading your opinions. I'm sure I won't be missed.

we ARE not the ones who have melded the political science and the sci fi together-the TPTB's (including the books author I presume) have.

we are not talking "politics" actually--politics would be like who is running for president, congressional actions/inactions that sort of thing

in this show-we are discussing the poli science,economic and sociological that have been made a core part of the show

<the diff is like that between "weather" and "climate">

its only other core so far, is that it is in space

true we don't know much yet about the mars-earth relationship, but just typing that line right there "mars earth relationship" is a comment of a poli sci nature itself

And please EC <and JOE>, don't get me wrong--I REALLY LIKE THIS SHOW!! I think it has great acting,excellent visuals and a solid story!

Mine and OM's comments here are more of a back and forth between he and I that include our individual diff's in poli sci and socio/eco issues

THEY ARE IN NO WAY (at least from me) an attack on this show or the story behind it--from the books!!!!

If you would have seen all the "barbs and arrows" i and a few others here suffered over nuBSG (because we liked it) you would defi wonder why I am still here!!!

Again,this is nothing against you or this show-just a commentary on the plot and action that spins around the dual core issues at its heart (poli sci,etc/ set in space)

(and the muslim issue--we mostly keep that to its own thread--but,when speaking on this how, I am not going to make the comment in that thread when it is relevant to this show)

 

[YJ02]

Right. Why can't we just talk about the story within the show? I find it hard to understand why someone can't just watch a show for its entertainment value. If it has to be compared to your own narrow world view of the way things are or how you want them to be, can you ever really be satisfied with any show?

"narrow world view"?

have you gone through the forums to see all of the things we do discuss? hardly "narrow" by any means

 

[Joelist]

Okay, this most recent episode was really nice. Although lacking in action it filled in blanks and also started to weave an overarching story. I liked how the OPA was explained more and also how their Martian gunship (now the Rocinante) has been "disguised" as a gas carrier.

 

[Jim of WVa]

Okay, this most recent episode was really nice. Although lacking in action it filled in blanks and also started to weave an overarching story. I liked how the OPA was explained more and also how their Martian gunship (now the Rocinante) has been "disguised" as a gas carrier.

I carry gas, and I let it out in various places.

Syfy needs to have their entire lineup with shows like this.

 

[YJ02]

so-another ep...

still,a great show with ppl on earth and in space and on space stations wearing strange clothing, talking in strange creole and using advanced tech

nothing else to say i guess

 

[Joelist]

That's over simplifying a bit...

More specifically, it was good to introduce the new locales of Phoebe and Tycho, and especially good to get more information on the OPA (Outer Planets Alliance). Now we know that instead of just being a group of terrorists they are an actual political and military entity (they govern Tycho), which puts things we have seen on Ceres into perspective.

Also the overarching story seems to be rolling out now (the bioweapon), and our UN security official is going further and further outside her area of authority. Methinks this is the center of how everything will blow up (the bioweapon, the Rocinante and the UN).

 

[YJ02]

That's over simplifying a bit...

More specifically, it was good to introduce the new locales of Phoebe and Tycho, and especially good to get more information on the OPA (Outer Planets Alliance). Now we know that instead of just being a group of terrorists they are an actual political and military entity (they govern Tycho), which puts things we have seen on Ceres into perspective.

Also the overarching story seems to be rolling out now (the bioweapon), and our UN security official is going further and further outside her area of authority. Methinks this is the center of how everything will blow up (the bioweapon, the Rocinante and the UN).

hey watchit!

you mentioned politics and military!

lets stay on topic!!

 

[Overmind One]

That's over simplifying a bit...

More specifically, it was good to introduce the new locales of Phoebe and Tycho, and especially good to get more information on the OPA (Outer Planets Alliance). Now we know that instead of just being a group of terrorists they are an actual political and military entity (they govern Tycho), which puts things we have seen on Ceres into perspective.

Also the overarching story seems to be rolling out now (the bioweapon), and our UN security official is going further and further outside her area of authority. Methinks this is the center of how everything will blow up (the bioweapon, the Rocinante and the UN).

In other words....politics.

 

[Overmind One]

hey watchit!

you mentioned politics and military!

lets stay on topic!!

I'm not understanding why commentary in this thread wants to try and ignore the politics of this show when it is absolutely center stage in this series. And it isn't space politics like Starfleet negotiating trade agreements with another alien culture, it is plain old earth politics moved into space and only involving humans.

 

[Gatefan1976]

I -think- it is a situation of "just enjoying it as it is" dude, not everyone wants to rip everything to shreds.
Granted, we do tend to do it -a lot-

 

[Joelist]

This is not Earth politics and not contemporary politics. Part of what is becoming apparent is that there is another party influencing events that is neither Earth, Mars or OPA. It was that unknown party who destroyed the ice freighter in the opener and who has what appears to be the bioweapon. Holden with his transmission in Episode 2 inadvertently has people thinking Mars destroyed the ice freighter and briefly the UN also thought so but they were able to ascertain it wasn't Mars before war broke out. Add to this mix the OPA who not only have possessions in the solar system but who the belters are rallying around.

This does not resemble current Earth politics. If anything, it reminds me of the Classic Doctor Who multipart episode Frontier in Space. And in this respect GF is correct, let's take the show on its own terms instead of trying to turn it into a commentary on contemporary politics - which both the book authors and series writers have stated it is not.

 

[Overmind One]

This is not Earth politics and not contemporary politics. Part of what is becoming apparent is that there is another party influencing events that is neither Earth, Mars or OPA. It was that unknown party who destroyed the ice freighter in the opener and who has what appears to be the bioweapon. Holden with his transmission in Episode 2 inadvertently has people thinking Mars destroyed the ice freighter and briefly the UN also thought so but they were able to ascertain it wasn't Mars before war broke out. Add to this mix the OPA who not only have possessions in the solar system but who the belters are rallying around.

This does not resemble current Earth politics. If anything, it reminds me of the Classic Doctor Who multipart episode Frontier in Space. And in this respect GF is correct, let's take the show on its own terms instead of trying to turn it into a commentary on contemporary politics - which both the book authors and series writers have stated it is not.

That is an interesting viewpoint, although I disagree with it. I see much of today's political systems in The Expanse. More than I want to see, actually. I will watch another episode or two.

 

[Joelist]

Dunno about that. We have a one world government on Earth centered on the UN, Mars is independent and the OPA appears to be a political unit too. And we have discontented belters. Aside from that we know next to nothing about the politics - like how either Mars or the UN is run for example. The authors have stated that the setting is not intended to reflect anything on current politics or economics, and that it is heavily based on Larry Niven's Known Space, which dates from the 60s and 70s.

Overall, I like the show. It has pretty much done exactly what we have been agitating for televised Science Fiction and SyFy as a channel to do. The shipping has been minimal, the character drama is all in context to the story, it has a solid story and decent acting and the SFX is not only high end but the ships and such have been pretty good at obeying physics.

 

[Overmind One]

Dunno about that. We have a one world government on Earth centered on the UN, Mars is independent and the OPA appears to be a political unit too. And we have discontented belters. Aside from that we know next to nothing about the politics - like how either Mars or the UN is run for example. The authors have stated that the setting is not intended to reflect anything on current politics or economics, and that it is heavily based on Larry Niven's Known Space, which dates from the 60s and 70s.

Overall, I like the show. It has pretty much done exactly what we have been agitating for televised Science Fiction and SyFy as a channel to do. The shipping has been minimal, the character drama is all in context to the story, it has a solid story and decent acting and the SFX is not only high end but the ships and such have been pretty good at obeying physics.

I am not aware of what they have said (bolded). But by watching the actual show, I would roundly dismiss any claims they have not used today's politics to shape the premise of the show. Without it's politics, we would not have Belters, a militarized Mars or a UN controlling earth. The episode I watched centered the story around the relationship these three main entities have with each other (which was a direct result of the politics which got them there). Without an alien element in the mix, we are left with Humanity of the future, having followed a familiar political/economic path to get there.

This is not a complaint, it is an observation. . Political scifi allows for interesting social commentary and a study of advanced diplomacy/warfare. In the sense of how this show is written, it is genuine science fiction true to it's definition and not at all fantasy. In the Wiki for this show, the first section immediately following it's synopsis is Politics.


How it's being marketed...

 

[Overmind One]

we ARE not the ones who have melded the political science and the sci fi together-the TPTB's (including the books author I presume) have.

we are not talking "politics" actually--politics would be like who is running for president, congressional actions/inactions that sort of thing

in this show-we are discussing the poli science,economic and sociological that have been made a core part of the show

<the diff is like that between "weather" and "climate">

its only other core so far, is that it is in space

EXACTLY. And that is evidently exactly what they wanted to do.

It's sorta stubborn to claim that this show is not political when it CLEARLY is. Why is that seen as a negative? It's not a negative. But it is definitely a fact. It's not an opinion.

true we don't know much yet about the mars-earth relationship, but just typing that line right there "mars earth relationship" is a comment of a poli sci nature itself

And please EC <and JOE>, don't get me wrong--I REALLY LIKE THIS SHOW!! I think it has great acting,excellent visuals and a solid story!

Mine and OM's comments here are more of a back and forth between he and I that include our individual diff's in poli sci and socio/eco issues

THEY ARE IN NO WAY (at least from me) an attack on this show or the story behind it--from the books!!!!

That's all I am saying too. . But I will strongly disagree with anyone claiming that this show is not talking about politics, or making a bit of social commentary on the politics of today we all are familiar with (the framework, not the specifics). You just cannot say it is not there.

If you would have seen all the "barbs and arrows" i and a few others here suffered over nuBSG (because we liked it) you would defi wonder why I am still here!!!

Again,this is nothing against you or this show-just a commentary on the plot and action that spins around the dual core issues at its heart (poli sci,etc/ set in space)

(and the muslim issue--we mostly keep that to its own thread--but,when speaking on this how, I am not going to make the comment in that thread when it is relevant to this show)

I believe EC took his toys and ran home. Some people cannot survive in a forum like this which is not heavily censored and moderated in a draconian way.

 

[Gatefan1976]

 

[Overmind One]

View attachment 32474

Um...back to what we were talking about. That's right...The Expanse and it's politics. I decided to download all 6 aired episodes to day and catch up to see if the show stayed on the track it started out on in the premiere. Yes, it is a socio-political scifi thriller, but where do they take it? I want to find out.