Season 5 needs funding

[Gatefan1976]

You guys may find this interesting:http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Features/Entry/3988/

 

[shavedape]

I dont get it. How did Sanctuary which began as a webisode series go from a few hundred thousand per episode to 2.6m per episode and become something that "cant survive" for less? Cancel the thing. Either that, or go back to webisodes OR like Bluce Ree suggested, bring back Stargate and let Amanda run it.

As Judge Judy is known to say: "If something doesn't make sense it's not true." So, obviously these numbers are fudged and/or the people producing Sanctuary are incompetent and/or incompetent liars.

 

[Overmind One]

You guys may find this interesting:http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Features/Entry/3988/

VERY interesting article. Thanks for posting it. Still, why aren't these more modest productions like Sanctuary making maximum use of the green screens and/or shaving some of the fat they have gained to bloat the episodes to 2.6m? Location shots, permanent sets, none of those are factors in Sanctuary, are they?

The article talked about a lot of Industry stuff. It mentioned all the "usual" 20th century methodology which is what should change:

1. Studio complexes with soundstages and permanent sets.
2. Location shoots
3. Production crews/values

Way back, it was decided by the Industry that actual location shoots would involve special actor's trailers, caterers, hundreds of production assistants and gaffers and sound people and cameramen, etc. WHY? In the 21st Century, all of that CAN change very easily. Use locations, but lose the trailers and crews and unnecessary personnel. Hire actors who have their own limousines or cars, and if they want their own personal trailers, then they pay for them. Forget the building of permanent sets unless we are talking about facing for green screen sets. And then use smaller facilities like empty warehouses (they can be rented, you know). Lighting with LED studio lights is cheaper and easier than having halogen or xenon studio lighting. Soundstages? Really? Noise canceling routinely hushes cell phone calls every minute of every day, whilst riding at 50mph in a convertible.

The Industry needs a makeover. Why are they not moving more quickly into the technology available to them? A million dollars can go a VERY long way in the right hands.

 

[Overmind One]

As Judge Judy is known to say: "If something doesn't make sense it's not true." So, obviously these numbers are fudged and/or the people producing Sanctuary are incompetent and/or incompetent liars.

Classic bloat syndrome. I remember how the original Vette roadster became a huge flat bloated car, how the cute lil Mini:




...became the MAXI Mini Countryman bloatmobile



The cost of producing Sanctuary has increased for something other than how it is produced. The advancing technology should be REDUCING costs, not inflating them.

 

[SciphonicStranger]

The original source has posted an update (same link as before)...

Update: I just got off of the phone with another source and I’m told that the producers of the series are waiting to hear from the primary backer of the series, The Beedie Group, about funding for a fifth season and have been for some time. I’m told they expect Beedie to approve funding and it is just taking longer than expected. Once that hurdle is cleared, the producers fully expect Syfy to green-light production on a fifth (and possibly final) season.

Thank goodness for The Beedie Group.

 

[SciphonicStranger]

It's indeed shocking that we agree. Furthermore it is shocking that we are both shocked.

Maybe we're psychically linked...again?

I guess we will know when you show up here bearing tulips and wooden shoes...

 

[Gatefan1976]

VERY interesting article. Thanks for posting it. Still, why aren't these more modest productions like Sanctuary making maximum use of the green screens and/or shaving some of the fat they have gained to bloat the episodes to 2.6m? Location shots, permanent sets, none of those are factors in Sanctuary, are they?

The article talked about a lot of Industry stuff. It mentioned all the "usual" 20th century methodology which is what should change:

1. Studio complexes with soundstages and permanent sets.
2. Location shoots
3. Production crews/values

Way back, it was decided by the Industry that actual location shoots would involve special actor's trailers, caterers, hundreds of production assistants and gaffers and sound people and cameramen, etc. WHY? In the 21st Century, all of that CAN change very easily. Use locations, but lose the trailers and crews and unnecessary personnel. Hire actors who have their own limousines or cars, and if they want their own personal trailers, then they pay for them. Forget the building of permanent sets unless we are talking about facing for green screen sets. And then use smaller facilities like empty warehouses (they can be rented, you know). Lighting with LED studio lights is cheaper and easier than having halogen or xenon studio lighting. Soundstages? Really? Noise canceling routinely hushes cell phone calls every minute of every day, whilst riding at 50mph in a convertible.

The Industry needs a makeover. Why are they not moving more quickly into the technology available to them? A million dollars can go a VERY long way in the right hands.

I don't disagree with you OM, but as you say this setup has become the *standard*, and it has been for decades. Let's pull a random figure from the air and say you get paid 100 per hour in your job, would YOU accept a paycut to 50 an hour simply because a new program was developed that cut out half the work you need to do?

 

[Gatefan1976]

The original source has posted an update (same link as before)...



Thank goodness for The Beedie Group.

That's what I was talking about with the organization already being set up to handle a "kickstarter-esque" type situation.

 

[Briangate78]

I found it odd that there were no announcements from Syfy, after reading up on this, Syfy seems to want another season, but they are having issues on the production end it would seem. By now Syfy would of announced it's cancellation.

 

[SciphonicStranger]

According to this article, back in 2008 an episode of Sanctuary was $1.6 million to produce. Bloat indeed.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/business/story.html?id=273a091a-1fd3-4b26-9a0b-8aeb984e29d1

Interesting that Keith Beedie, owner of The Beedie Group, is an SG-1 fan too.

 

[YoshiKart64]

VERY interesting article. Thanks for posting it. Still, why aren't these more modest productions like Sanctuary making maximum use of the green screens and/or shaving some of the fat they have gained to bloat the episodes to 2.6m? Location shots, permanent sets, none of those are factors in Sanctuary, are they?

The article talked about a lot of Industry stuff. It mentioned all the "usual" 20th century methodology which is what should change:

1. Studio complexes with soundstages and permanent sets.
2. Location shoots
3. Production crews/values

Way back, it was decided by the Industry that actual location shoots would involve special actor's trailers, caterers, hundreds of production assistants and gaffers and sound people and cameramen, etc. WHY? In the 21st Century, all of that CAN change very easily. Use locations, but lose the trailers and crews and unnecessary personnel. Hire actors who have their own limousines or cars, and if they want their own personal trailers, then they pay for them. Forget the building of permanent sets unless we are talking about facing for green screen sets. And then use smaller facilities like empty warehouses (they can be rented, you know). Lighting with LED studio lights is cheaper and easier than having halogen or xenon studio lighting. Soundstages? Really? Noise canceling routinely hushes cell phone calls every minute of every day, whilst riding at 50mph in a convertible.

The Industry needs a makeover. Why are they not moving more quickly into the technology available to them? A million dollars can go a VERY long way in the right hands.

Why would the industry move forward with productions that would a) be resisted by all unions and b) make TV/Film products look cheaper. Beyond the major oversights surrounding these crazy cost cuts, you seem to ignore the millions that would join the unemployed because you consider their talents unneeded.

The kind of changes your suggesting would require everyone accepting less, including the audience. That's the reason they haven't and will continue not to happen. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but there is nobody in the industry, high ranking or otherwise, actually propagating this kind of thing anyway.

 

[Gatefan1976]

I found it odd that there were no announcements from Syfy, after reading up on this, Syfy seems to want another season, but they are having issues on the production end it would seem. By now Syfy would of announced it's cancellation.

*Crashtackles Briangate* BUDDY!!

Syfy could use this for a *massive* PR spin. Considering the..........resistance to them ATM and the perception that they are "cancel happy", a public or at least semi trasperant look into what goes on could do a great deal to lift the image of Syfy amongst fans of Scifi and restore a little faith in the network. The Production companies take the line of "you don't wanna know what goes on behind the scene's", but more and more the the fans DO wanna know, the DO want to be pro-active, and IMHO, NOT using that resource is boneheaded in the extreme.

 

[Briangate78]

*Crashtackles Briangate* BUDDY!!

Syfy could use this for a *massive* PR spin. Considering the..........resistance to them ATM and the perception that they are "cancel happy", a public or at least semi trasperant look into what goes on could do a great deal to lift the image of Syfy amongst fans of Scifi and restore a little faith in the network. The Production companies take the line of "you don't wanna know what goes on behind the scene's", but more and more the the fans DO wanna know, the DO want to be pro-active, and IMHO, NOT using that resource is boneheaded in the extreme.

Hey bud, good to see ya too. Anyway, I think so many things go behind the scenes it does not look good for some things to come out, Would of loved to be a fly on the wall for the whole SGA fiasco. lol.

 

[Overmind One]

I found it odd that there were no announcements from Syfy, after reading up on this, Syfy seems to want another season, but they are having issues on the production end it would seem. By now Syfy would of announced it's cancellation.

Hey Dude, good to see you. Has the approval process changed over at Syfy? It seems like something has majorly changed, with Blood and Chrome stalled after so much teasing. Now, they are leaving open a huge gap in science fiction programming in favor of all the other cr...stuff they have been airing. Even a RE-airing of something might stimulate interest. Also, have you heard anything about this Defiance series they are whispering about?

 

[Gatefan1976]

Hey bud, good to see ya too. Anyway, I think so many things go behind the scenes it does not look good for some things to come out, Would of loved to be a fly on the wall for the whole SGA fiasco. lol.

Hence the "semi transperent" comment dude.
To actually allow fans to *see* at least a part of what goes on, perhaps not the raw numbers and grizzly bloodbath of "it's not making enough money so bye-bye", but to see Syfy execs stalling decisions, dealing with investors on a "superficial level" and see them actually trying to explore *all possible avenues* before dropping the "cancel hammer" if needed. We all KNOW it will come down to profitablility in the end, but to see people "jumping the hoops", and not just the M.A.D. crew, but Syfy as well, may give fans a greater apreciation of just how hard they work to keep the shows we and they love.

 

[Overmind One]

I don't disagree with you OM, but as you say this setup has become the *standard*, and it has been for decades. Let's pull a random figure from the air and say you get paid 100 per hour in your job, would YOU accept a paycut to 50 an hour simply because a new program was developed that cut out half the work you need to do?

No, I would not. But in 2004, I did just that. I was charging 135.00 when my competitors were charging 120/hr and that was the norm for IT engineers. But today, the norm is 75-100/hr, and you will be passed up if you are still holding out for the old norm. This is what is happening with the Industry. Costs are escalating which trickles down to the consumer audiences who are less and less willing to shell out $20-30 for a movie date at a theater. Why bother even if you DO have the money if there is nothing worth watching? In IT, I have to make up in maintenance contracts what I used to make hourly. Since I do not belong to any company, scheduled hours makes up my income. The more open holes in the calendar, the less money I am making.

To answer your question, I would have to say NO I would not accept the paycut hourly. But I would accept a cut in the number of hours. Probably because there would be no choice! Thing is, my clients respect me more for saving them money and I get further referrals to new clients. The Industry is still operating much like it did in 1945. It is bloated beyond belief, and the current technology has increased the bottom line because less work and less personnel are required to produce the same media. The studios do not seem to be passing that savings down to the production companies seeking to use the facilities/personnel, and there is nowhere else for them to go at the moment.

Except perhaps that rented warehouse, that empty hangar, that old farmhouse in Riverside, etc. It will happen because the costs will force it to happen.

 

[Gatefan1976]

No, I would not. But in 2004, I did just that. I was charging 135.00 when my competitors were charging 120/hr and that was the norm for IT engineers. But today, the norm is 75-100/hr, and you will be passed up if you are still holding out for the old norm. This is what is happening with the Industry. Costs are escalating which trickles down to the consumer audiences who are less and less willing to shell out $20-30 for a movie date at a theater. Why bother even if you DO have the money if there is nothing worth watching? In IT, I have to make up in maintenance contracts what I used to make hourly. Since I do not belong to any company, scheduled hours makes up my income. The more open holes in the calendar, the less money I am making.

Again dude, we are not disagreeing all that much, we are just looking at it from different perspectives. I will disagree on one point however, and that is movies. You and I (and everyone else here for that matter) would rather stay home and watch movies on our TV's/pads/computers, and sound systems and not bother with the drag of cinemas (our methods of doing so may differ true, but meh) The stats however bear out that we are still very much in the minority when movies can make millions within the first few days of opening in the US alone.

To answer your question, I would have to say NO I would not accept the paycut hourly. But I would accept a cut in the number of hours. Probably because there would be no choice! Thing is, my clients respect me more for saving them money and I get further referrals to new clients. The Industry is still operating much like it did in 1945. It is bloated beyond belief, and the current technology has increased the bottom line because less work and less personnel are required to produce the same media. The studios do not seem to be passing that savings down to the production companies seeking to use the facilities/personnel, and there is nowhere else for them to go at the moment.

Again, we are not really disagreeing here bud. Quite frankly you are quite right, but being right will not always make it happen. At the end of the day, what does money *really* make?
Answer: Jack Shit.
Time, talent and skill make things happen, money is just the medium we use to judge the relative value of these things.

 

[Joelist]

If they can get their funding approved this should be an interesting season, as what they did at the end of last season was effectively a reset.

By the way, SGU could probably have been filmed to equal or greater effect in Overmind's farmhouse in Riverside...

 

[Overmind One]

If they can get their funding approved this should be an interesting season, as what they did at the end of last season was effectively a reset.

By the way, SGU could probably have been filmed to equal or greater effect in Overmind's farmhouse in Riverside...

Or, The Walking Dead! In believe it was done for The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. A closed mall was used for the Night of the Living Dead.

 

[shavedape]

Why would the industry move forward with productions that would a) be resisted by all unions and b) make TV/Film products look cheaper. Beyond the major oversights surrounding these crazy cost cuts, you seem to ignore the millions that would join the unemployed because you consider their talents unneeded.

The kind of changes your suggesting would require everyone accepting less, including the audience. That's the reason they haven't and will continue not to happen. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but there is nobody in the industry, high ranking or otherwise, actually propagating this kind of thing anyway.

Out of the mouths of babes...

Regarding points A and B above --

Yes the unions would resist such changes, and that's a big part of the problem. Much of the bloat in these productions comes from the union requirements for staffing, crew, environment, wages, benefits, etc. You see this problem in any industry that becomes too subservient to the union mentality; it effectively strangles itself. Unions won't give up their stranglehold regardless of how suicidal it is to their entire organization. This happened in the auto industry in America and it's happening with the government teacher's unions now also. (This is not a slam on teachers, rather, it's an indictment of the bloated admin bureaucracy of their unions.)

As for TV and movie productions, the reason so much of it had moved to Canada was due to the lower cost of production in the 90's. Obviously those costs have risen and are now comparable to American production costs; the Canadian unions being a factor in these costs needless to say. Cutting a catering truck from the production list isn't an easy thing to do as chances are that it is "codefied" into the union contracts, etc. etc. In many ways the producer's hands are tied in regards to certain costs and their only choice is to cut bait and call it a day, or...

Go to someplace like Romania that, while formerly socialist, now doesn't care so much about union rules and requirements; they just want the business so they have made it economically friendly for producers to come and make their wares. And as for the quality of those productions it goes without saying that they are at the very least on par with the stuff that has been coming out of Canada for quite some time now. Yes, a crappy SyFy movie is the same whether it's produced in Canada or Romania (and let's be honest, they have produced a ton of crappy stuff in Canada). The same holds true for good quality movies and shows that are produced in other locales verses in Canada or America. So you see, just because less money is spent to produce a show or movie in a foreign locale verses in North America that doesn't mean that production will suffer in quality. You, Yoshi, want to believe that, that's all. It's called subjectivism, which seems to be your guiding philosophy. Seriously, look it up. Subjectivism = Yoshi. Nuff sed.

As for "millions" being unemployed (:roll because their talents are unneeded, what of it? If one doesn't have marketable skills and/or there simply isn't work for their skills (on a TV or movie production set no less) why should they be given a job? To take up space, breathe the air and collect an unearned paycheck? Why should I, a producer, give you, a caterer, a job on my set simply because you demand it? Where am I to get the money in order to pay you? This statement of yours reveals your youth and inexperience in the real world. Had you ever held a job where you had to manage a budget you would know that money doesn't grow on trees and reality can't be warped or bent to suit one's wishes. Reality doesn't work that way. You can fudge the numbers for only so long before reality comes back and bites you in the ass. One literally can't provide jobs to people (be it one or one million) if the budget, i.e reality, doesn't allow for it.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not anti union, I'm anti stupidity, and it's stupid to slit one's throat simply because one refuses to economize. There's no reason that the unions couldn't work with producers to reduce costs and keep some of them employed verses making them all unemployed. That is the reality of it, like it or not. Deny reality all you want Yoshi (which you usually do) but you can't evade it forever. It always comes back and sets things right. That's just how it is. A producer can't make a budget cover every single unnecessary thing including the kitchen sink. Reality just doesn't work that way, that's why it's called reality and not fantasy.

As for your second paragraph, well, as usual it's nothing but gibberish. It's been proven countless times that the audience doesn't have to accept "less" just because production costs are lowered. More money doesn't automatically mean better. John Carter ring any bells?

At any rate, you're wrong as usual Yoshi and we can only hope that when Valhalla calls the gods will have mercy on your delightfully obtuse and unrepentant soul.