Season 5 needs funding

[Joelist]

Of course part of what is going on with Sanctuary's financing is that they have to build the investment return for the financiers into the per episode cost they charge SyFy and such - they can't take a loss there and anticipate making it back later on syndication and the like. Plus as it is not part of a stable of shows being made by a studio there is no way for the studio to take a loss on it and have other shows make more money to cover the difference (which is what happened with NuBSG especially in S3 and S4 - the studio took a loss to get the prestige that helped them sell other shows).

Tapping and Kindler broke new ground with how they financed Sanctuary and the idea they had can work well, but it pretty much requires the show be on the tiniest budget possible.

 

[shavedape]

Of course part of what is going on with Sanctuary's financing is that they have to build the investment return for the financiers into the per episode cost they charge SyFy and such - they can't take a loss there and anticipate making it back later on syndication and the like. Plus as it is not part of a stable of shows being made by a studio there is no way for the studio to take a loss on it and have other shows make more money to cover the difference (which is what happened with NuBSG especially in S3 and S4 - the studio took a loss to get the prestige that helped them sell other shows).

Tapping and Kindler broke new ground with how they financed Sanctuary and the idea they had can work well, but it pretty much requires the show be on the tiniest budget possible.

Nice try Joelist but Yoshi has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that production companies are paid in full, up-front, and never have to worry about economizing their budgets or paying their bills for over head, etc. It doesn't even matter if the shows they produce fail and are canceled as they've gotten their money and they don't have any back-end costs; they don't have anyone that they have to pay out of pocket for things like equipment and property leases and staffing payroll, etc. The bills are paid. No need to worry. It will be alright, now go back to sleep...

 

[Overmind One]

Nice try Joelist but Yoshi has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that production companies are paid in full, up-front, and never have to worry about economizing their budgets or paying their bills for over head, etc. It doesn't even matter if the shows they produce fail and are canceled as they've gotten their money and they don't have any back-end costs; they don't have anyone that they have to pay out of pocket for things like equipment and property leases and staffing payroll, etc. The bills are paid. No need to worry. It will be alright, now go back to sleep...

Oh, and also since there is no problem getting money (after all, it has been there for 10 years and keeps rolling in by the wheelbarrow load). Shows do not have to perform at all. They just have to sit there and advertisers will shell out the money.

 

[Joelist]

See, this is what happens when giant lobsters try to educate on he facts of life of independent financing of television series.

Oh well, could always go ahead and fight Gojira. However there is that whole issue around crustaceans and heat and Goji does have that radioactive fire breath....

 

[Bluce Ree]

[...]Renewing a show is not a simple 'does it make money?' If yes, renew', it's all about rating averages. If it was about making money that CBS wouldn't need to cancel any of it's shows right now. And again, the production companies are still getting paid for the shows even if they get cancelled.[...]

Sorry, dude, but even I have to LOL at that statement. What's the point of having reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally HIGH ratings if you're not selling any profitable advertising for that show? It's always about the money. If CBS felt that a new show could replace an existing show to increase margins and decreasing costs, they don't hesitate. If networks were driven by artistic motivations, they'd all be under the PBS logo.

 

[YoshiKart64]

Sorry, dude, but even I have to LOL at that statement. What's the point of having reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally HIGH ratings if you're not selling any profitable advertising for that show? It's always about the money. If CBS felt that a new show could replace an existing show to increase margins and decreasing costs, they don't hesitate. If networks were driven by artistic motivations, they'd all be under the PBS logo.

I meant that CBS cancels shows that are profitable each season, if they fall under the ratings average, in order to make room for new shows that could potentially make more money. My point there was that a profitable show isn't necessarily safe since CBS has a large amount of successful shows.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, the second sentence alone is a bit misleading.

 

[Overmind One]

I meant that CBS cancels shows that are profitable each season, if they fall under the ratings average, in order to make room for new shows that could potentially make more money. My point there was that a profitable show isn't necessarily safe since CBS has a large amount of successful shows.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, the second sentence alone is a bit misleading.

Please provide one example of that. WHY would CBS cancel a profitable show? Profit is relative. The shows that make more profit are NOT going to get canceled for an unproven "potentially more profitable" show. Where are you getting any of this? The studios basically watch the ratings to gauge what they think will be attractive to advertisers. The advertisers are basically ONLY looking at the ratings and demographics and have no interest in the content of shows. The role of the studio is to gather viewers with attractive programming. They use the numbers generated from those audiences to "sell" the show to advertisers. The advertisers still ultimately base their spending on the numbers and not on any recommendations from the studios. There is no logic in canceling a profitable show.

I need to see an example.

 

[YoshiKart64]

Please provide one example of that. WHY would CBS cancel a profitable show? Profit is relative. The shows that make more profit are NOT going to get canceled for an unproven "potentially more profitable" show. Where are you getting any of this? The studios basically watch the ratings to gauge what they think will be attractive to advertisers. The advertisers are basically ONLY looking at the ratings and demographics and have no interest in the content of shows. The role of the studio is to gather viewers with attractive programming. They use the numbers generated from those audiences to "sell" the show to advertisers. The advertisers still ultimately base their spending on the numbers and not on any recommendations from the studios. There is no logic in canceling a profitable show.

I need to see an example.

They cancelled Without a Trace back in 2009 when the show was still profitable. In fact they had to make the decision between that and Cold Case simply because they needed room for their newer shows. While ordering more episodes might have made them money, it makes sense in the long term to order cheaper newer shows and see how they perform. You have to take risks on new shows if you want a chance at having the next big thing. Unlike a network like NBC, nearly all of CBS' shows are doing well; they can hardly air no new programming as that's just a recipe for future decline.

EDIT: I'd also add this is a network the keeps renewing The Good Wife solely because it wins the network emmys.

 

[Overmind One]

They cancelled Without a Trace back in 2009 when the show was still profitable. In fact they had to make the decision between that and Cold Case simply because they needed room for their newer shows. While ordering more episodes might have made them money, it makes sense in the long term to order cheaper newer shows and see how they perform. You have to take risks on new shows if you want a chance at having the next big thing. Unlike a network like NBC, nearly all of CBS' shows are doing well; they can hardly air no new programming as that's just a recipe for future decline.

EDIT: I'd also add this is a network the keeps renewing The Good Wife solely because it wins the network emmys.

Prestige is important. But prestige comes only after profitability

 

[shavedape]

​*cough*

 

[YoshiKart64]

Prestige is important. But prestige comes only after profitability

True, but if The Good Wife wasn't on the emmy roster it's ratings wouldn't warrant it's inclusion on the CBS schedule. Interesting this discussion happens as Fox renews Fringe; now there is a situation you don't see very often.

 

[THX1138]

I wouldn't pay any attention to articles from that dude, plus the article is gone now. His "sources" have been wrong before, remember the 'Sanctuary's fate is tied to Blood & Chrome' BS??

As for the cost per episode, last year both Amanda & Martin separately said that it costs just under 2 mil per episode. Going from over 1.6 mil in S1 to that in S4 isn't a huge increase per year. I don't know where that dude pulled 2.6 from.

Anyway here's what Amanda had to say on the subject of the delay in renewal last weekend - [media=youtube]fziLMLXa0QM[/media]

 

[Overmind One]

I wouldn't pay any attention to articles from that dude, plus the article is gone now. His "sources" have been wrong before, remember the 'Sanctuary's fate is tied to Blood & Chrome' BS??

As for the cost per episode, last year both Amanda & Martin separately said that it costs just under 2 mil per episode. Going from over 1.6 mil in S1 to that in S4 isn't a huge increase per year. I don't know where that dude pulled 2.6 from.

Anyway here's what Amanda had to say on the subject of the delay in renewal last weekend - [media=youtube]fziLMLXa0QM[/media]

I love that clip. Amanda, have my children? I like that she thoroughly explained the power chain for financing the show. Unfortunately, it would logically mean that funding for the show needs to happen in a TIMELY fashion to make sure there is a season 5. I did not know that Comcast was in the picture. Hopefully we will hear about this soon.

 

[Joelist]

Great clip, and kudos to Amanda Tapping for explaining the whole structure of things. That should dispel a lot of the rumors. I am also glad we now have real cost per show data, and it is not 2.6 mil per episode. That number was crazy.

 

[SciphonicStranger]

I just read this at Gateworld. Amanda in tears makes me sad....

http://www.gateworld.net/news/2012/05/sanctuarys-long-hiatus-is-it-permanent/

 

[Overmind One]

I just read this at Gateworld. Amanda in tears makes me sad....

http://www.gateworld.net/news/2012/05/sanctuarys-long-hiatus-is-it-permanent/

The writing is on the wall, and it looks dim to me. I am really starting to hate Syfy even more than before. I simply cannot believe this is the same station which I used to watch religiously when it was The SciFi Channel. As much as I want to be fair to the channel, they just keep chasing the demographic and damn everybody else.

 

[Joelist]

It is pretty bad. They basically bumbled Sanctuary away, and in the process have likely totally alienated Tapping and Kindler.

 

[SciphonicStranger]

The writing is on the wall, and it looks dim to me. I am really starting to hate Syfy even more than before. I simply cannot believe this is the same station which I used to watch religiously when it was The SciFi Channel. As much as I want to be fair to the channel, they just keep chasing the demographic and damn everybody else.

View attachment 7098

Drawing tears from Spock makes the current situation even sadder...

I'm still holding out hope that there will be a season 5.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Drawing tears from Spock makes the current situation even sadder...

I'm still holding out hope that there will be a season 5.

I'm holding out hope that NBC will dump Syfylys and it gets picked up by AMC Networks who will fire EVERYONE and start kicking up the content once again with fresh blood (or old blood from the heydays of Sci-Fi).

 

[shavedape]

I'm holding out hope that NBC will dump Syfylys and it gets picked up by AMC Networks who will fire EVERYONE and start kicking up the content once again with fresh blood (or old blood from the heydays of Sci-Fi).

I'm thinking that SyFy has to hit rock bottom before it will go back to what worked, either that or someone will come in, like AMC, and steal their old audience completely. It's already happening as we all know. It makes me shake my head to see SyFy devolve into reality show hell while channels like AMC and BBCA create successful live action supernatural/sci-fi shows.

How can the execs at SyFy not grasp the fact that in their attempt to get immediate ratings with nonsense such as wrestling or reality shows they are losing their core audience for the long run? Case in point, I rarely even watch SyFy now and can't name a single "must see" show on that network. It wasn't that long ago that I had a slew of shows to tune into there.