NuBSG on BBCA

[shavedape]

We are in complete agreement here!


That was one of the major problems with the series! The producers led the fans to believe they had planned something awesome for the series' final seasons and that everything would fall into place once the mysteries of Cobol, Earth, the infamous "Cylons' Plan" etc were revealed. But as it turned out they were only winging it and adding stuff along the way and obviously ran out of ideas/inspiration and into a dead end when they got to New Caprica.

Yup, I was a huge fan at the start of BSG but by Season 3 I began to wane in my interest. I thought Season 4 sucked pretty bad and I found myself casually tuning in. There was no drive to watch it when new episodes aired. It didn't help that the BSG PTB had insulted me by claiming that they had a road map of the show from first episode to last. This was such an obvious lie one couldn't be anything but insulted.

What I still can't wrap my head around is how a show goes from such a phenomenal start to utter blah by the end. Is there no producer in the world that can create a vision and hold it thru to the end?

 

[Joelist]

Yup, I was a huge fan at the start of BSG but by Season 3 I began to wane in my interest. I thought Season 4 sucked pretty bad and I found myself casually tuning in. There was no drive to watch it when new episodes aired. It didn't help that the BSG PTB had insulted me by claiming that they had a road map of the show from first episode to last. This was such an obvious lie one couldn't be anything but insulted.

What I still can't wrap my head around is how a show goes from such a phenomenal start to utter blah by the end. Is there no producer in the world that can create a vision and hold it thru to the end?

It's really a pity, as Season 1 and most of Season 2 were some of the best TV SciFi I had seen in a long time. But the later in S2 it got the soapier it got. S3 was frankly awful, concluding with a totally illogical reveal of the "final five". Then in S4 they actually started engaging in retconning things they established early on in order to try to make the plot corners they had painted themselves into escapable (the BSG telefilm "the Plan" was basically doing the same thing).

What it also shows is that if you are going to make a serialized show (which it was) then you absolutely must have the whole story planned out at least at a higher level before you start - and you have to stick to that plan.

 

[Backstep]

It's really a pity, as Season 1 and most of Season 2 were some of the best TV SciFi I had seen in a long time. But the later in S2 it got the soapier it got. S3 was frankly awful, concluding with a totally illogical reveal of the "final five". Then in S4 they actually started engaging in retconning things they established early on in order to try to make the plot corners they had painted themselves into escapable (the BSG telefilm "the Plan" was basically doing the same thing).

What it also shows is that if you are going to make a serialized show (which it was) then you absolutely must have the whole story planned out at least at a higher level before you start - and you have to stick to that plan.

Personally i became bored halfway through S1, I keep waiting for something to happen, the Cylons are chasing the fleet and no battles?

 

[Graybrew1]

Personally i became bored halfway through S1, I keep waiting for something to happen, the Cylons are chasing the fleet and no battles?

They would have scary music like something was going to happen and half the time it did not. I found the overall show enjoyable to watch, but I almost stopped watching it when Appollo got fat the they were down on that planet. That was just lame. The last year bounced back and the end was a twist, but making half the main core cast cylons was dumb.

 

[Backstep]

They would have scary music like something was going to happen and half the time it did not. I found the overall show enjoyable to watch, but I almost stopped watching it when Appollo got fat the they were down on that planet. That was just lame. The last year bounced back and the end was a twist, but making half the main core cast cylons was dumb.

You liked the end? You don't think the last part of the series was a copout like the other BSG fan i've read about.

 

[shavedape]

It's really a pity, as Season 1 and most of Season 2 were some of the best TV SciFi I had seen in a long time. But the later in S2 it got the soapier it got. S3 was frankly awful, concluding with a totally illogical reveal of the "final five". Then in S4 they actually started engaging in retconning things they established early on in order to try to make the plot corners they had painted themselves into escapable (the BSG telefilm "the Plan" was basically doing the same thing).

What it also shows is that if you are going to make a serialized show (which it was) then you absolutely must have the whole story planned out at least at a higher level before you start - and you have to stick to that plan.

Agreed completely. Season 1 was just amazing! I have no doubt that they had the entire first season completely mapped out. It's strikingly obvious. What bugs me is the lie they foisted on us that they knew what they were doing the entire run of the show. :roll: RM was so full of crap. I can't believe he think we're all so stupid that we can't see the obvious; that they didn't know what they were doing or where they were going midway thru Season 2.

 

[Graybrew1]

You liked the end? You don't think the last part of the series was a copout like the other BSG fan i've read about.

I was torn. I liked that there was a twist, but I did not really like the twist itself. I was glad that it was a true ending. Not really anywhere they could have gone from there. But the whole Gaius Baltar and Six standing there was not to my liking. The idea of giving up all tech was BS. So, yes somewhat torn.

 

[Backstep]

I was torn. I liked that there was a twist, but I did not really like the twist itself. I was glad that it was a true ending. Not really anywhere they could have gone from there. But the whole Gaius Baltar and Six standing there was not to my liking. The idea of giving up all tech was BS. So, yes somewhat torn.

What was the twist as you saw it. Most posts i read on half season was it was nothing but filler and the end ep was deus ex machina.

 

[SciphonicStranger]

What was the twist as you saw it. Most posts i read on half season was it was nothing but filler and the end ep was deus ex machina.

I remember several head characters and an "angel" intervening at the end.

 

[Graybrew1]

What was the twist as you saw it. Most posts i read on half season was it was nothing but filler and the end ep was deus ex machina.

Well, the twist was the fact that they had been looking for the "Earth" that the 13rth colony went to, but in reality it was not really our Earth. The planet they decided to settle down on and give up their tech was our Earth. So, two Earths.....one maybe just a legend and one that was our planet today in Times Square.

 

[Graybrew1]

I remember several head characters and an "angel" intervening at the end.

Yeah, that part was confusing about the head Six and who the heck, or what the heck Gaius actually was.

 

[SciphonicStranger]

Yeah, that part was confusing about the head Six and who the heck, or what the heck Gaius actually was.

I always thought there was a real Gaius Baltar and a spiritual "head" version. How on Caprica he managed to survive the nuclear attack in the miniseries is an unknown though.

 

[Graybrew1]

I always thought there was a real Gaius Baltar and a spiritual "head" version. How on Caprica he managed to survive the nuclear attack in the miniseries is an unknown though.

Where is our local expert when you need him? Yongjin come amaze and awe with your vast knowledge on this subject, I know I have asked and you have explained this to me before, but I can't remember the details.

 

[Backstep]

Well, the twist was the fact that they had been looking for the "Earth" that the 13rth colony went to, but in reality it was not really our Earth. The planet they decided to settle down on and give up their tech was our Earth. So, two Earths.....one maybe just a legend and one that was our planet today in Times Square.

You're the first i ever met or read that has a positive attitude to the last part of the series.

 

[SciphonicStranger]

Where is our local expert when you need him? Yongjin come amaze and awe with your vast knowledge on this subject, I know I have asked and you have explained this to me before, but I can't remember the details.

Mental green for that - we really do need an expert to decipher the ending of BSG.

 

[Graybrew1]

Mental green for that - we really do need an expert to decipher the ending of BSG.

He is here somewhere, hope he has the time to educate us. LOL. No joke by the way, I actually do greatly respect his knowledge of BSG and Caprica.

 

[YJ02]

So he can tell me which episode it was, the designer of the suit and if the tie color matched... It still sucked big time!

BTW, I am looking forward to B&C. I just hope there will be some sci-fi in it and not just gratuitous gore and pew-pew.

there is suppossed to be gratuitous gore, pew-pew and sex. There is even, reportedly, going to be a 'cython'--that is a cylon snake as a land warfare machine. also--and it is causing a lot of heartache with fans over on the syfy caprica threads--a "terminator-like" cylon. you see, there was concept art released--cython, ice planet, vipers and raptors, etc--one pic shows a partially skin melted off cylon female. she looks a lot like a terminator. some of us say that makes sense,,if Zoe--or one of her incarnation--or Tamara in greystone developed 'skin-job' form join with the cylons and/or Taurons and STO then the concept art makes sense. those without much 'depth' (the 'pew-pew- types) don't get it and just go with what is fed to them on the screen and dont "think in-between the lines/scenes" like RDM has encouraged viewers to do--not everything can be 'spoon-fed'. of course this is where things can get dicey when crossing 'fan-lines'. this is why previous non stargate fans--like me--took a liking to SGU at first. ITS NOT BECAUSE IT WAS AS GOOD AS BSG, BUT, because it was BSG-like. That is, SGU PTB clearly drew inspiration from BSG in camera angles, lighting, moodiness, etc. unfortunately, that which was great about BSG and worked could not be re-created by the SGU PTB.

Anyhoo..no, off the top of my head I cant say color of tie, designer of suit or exact epi it was--but I can look it up

 

[Graybrew1]

there is suppossed to be gratuitous gore, pew-pew and sex. There is even, reportedly, going to be a 'cython'--that is a cylon snake as a land warfare machine. also--and it is causing a lot of heartache with fans over on the syfy caprica threads--a "terminator-like" cylon. you see, there was concept art released--cython, ice planet, vipers and raptors, etc--one pic shows a partially skin melted off cylon female. she looks a lot like a terminator. some of us say that makes sense,,if Zoe--or one of her incarnation--or Tamara in greystone developed 'skin-job' form join with the cylons and/or Taurons and STO then the concept art makes sense. those without much 'depth' (the 'pew-pew- types) don't get it and just go with what is fed to them on the screen and dont "think in-between the lines/scenes" like RDM has encouraged viewers to do--not everything can be 'spoon-fed'. of course this is where things can get dicey when crossing 'fan-lines'. this is why previous non stargate fans--like me--took a liking to SGU at first. ITS NOT BECAUSE IT WAS AS GOOD AS BSG, BUT, because it was BSG-like. That is, SGU PTB clearly drew inspiration from BSG in camera angles, lighting, moodiness, etc. unfortunately, that which was great about BSG and worked could not be re-created by the SGU PTB.

Anyhoo..no, off the top of my head I cant say color of tie, designer of suit or exact epi it was--but I can look it up

But seriously can you explain what the angels and head cylons meant again in BSG, especially the ending.

 

[YJ02]

Where is our local expert when you need him? Yongjin come amaze and awe with your vast knowledge on this subject, I know I have asked and you have explained this to me before, but I can't remember the details.

Their are "head/angel/higher power beings" throughout BSG and CAPRICA. Baltar's version didn't make many appearances though. As for the attacks he and millions of others survived. As you watch you will see survivors on CAPRICA in season 1 and in "THE PLAN" (where the cylons run extermination camps). In season 1 --THE FARM-- we see the cylons are collecting females who are of child bearing age all over Caporica for a cylon/human breeding program. One can also assume, that the same goes on all over the colonies. Since CAPRICA and the revelation of the Gemenon STO and their black market cylon army- one could assume that perhaps certain Gemonese are spared for their previous efforts. After all--in the first war the cylons needed human help to obtain weapons, spacecraft and other support. Someone who was capable of speech and free-though had to be there to do the negotiating with the Final 5 when they arrived as well. Remember, if you watched CAPRICA- that the Tauron rebels had cylon troopers as well--one could also assume that--to further their radical ends--the Tauron rebels may have helped to facilitate the cylon rebellion.

but again, all of this requires that "in between the lines/scenes" thinking that ron moore encourages. The same applies for the series finale--as well as a working knowledge of real Earth history/archaelogy/antrhopology and mythology (Adama=Adam-the first man / Apollo=travels the Earth to see what there is to see/spreading knowledge to the humans already here=the mythical Apollo
riding his chariot of fire (a "raptor?") and utilizing tech to teach the primitive men he finds how to use fire/ basic society princilples/better hunting/community bldg, etc, etc... Of course all of the 8's (the Sharons) when you look at the map when Adama and the 6 in charge and other cylons pick landing areas-it seems that many of the Sharons go to Asia (SHOCKING!) and lastly (but there is so much more) Adm Adama--Zeus to his Apollo--chooses to self-exile to a mountain top=Zeus on Olympus)

Oh yeah-your question was on the "head creatures" In CAPRICA and BSG, many believe that these beings are sent by god/higher power to interfere/intercede in human affairs. Caprica 6 at first allows Baltar to believe that she is a cylon agent (a chip in his head) of course after Doc Caudle checks him out with no chips in head, he his forced to accept that she is "something else". Roslin also sees head creatures but more in dream form (just like cylon projection). In BSG, Baltar --the prophet--state that there are Angerls among us, he sees them, they appear in the form of people that are dear to us. Caprica 6 was dear to him, so the "higher power" chooses her image (later when she/it senses that Baltar has a thing for Starbuck she alters her speech and outward appearance to mimic Starbuck briefly. When we do see a head Baltar, he of course is in his own image (Baltar is most dear to Baltar, and of course to the actual Caprica 6 who joins the Galactica). In CAPRICA, we are told/shown that Zoe can see head creatures/angels. We see her being saved from a fire as a child by one. Some believe that in the last scene -a 'v world' chapel-the Zoe scene by Clarice is another Head creature--appearing in Zoe's form since Clarice has a thing for Zoe, she believes her to have always been special. In deleted scenes, Zoe is seen drawing cylons well before her dad has conceptualized them. And of course she writes most of what will become Daniel's resurection program as well--with 'divine' inspiration? The thing on these creatures--and I know am not RDM, so I cant be sure--is that someone/thing not yet revealed to us is constantly interfering with humans--the "all of this has happened before..." thing is perhaps engineered and guided by the 'angels'. The head Zoe Clarice sees is perhaps smiling because she/it knows their master plan is succeeding yet again---the rise of the cylon's malcontent and eventual war. They did it before on Kobol and they do it again in the Colonies (and on Earth 1)
Hopefully B&C will have these beings as well Oh yeah, since RDM drew just about all of his inspiration and co-collborated with Glenn Larson--who created the original series--we have to remember the Seraphs, the beings of light that come to help the colonists flee the cylons. It is just that in the re-working of the show, these 'beings of light" are depicted in a different (and better) manner.
Some also equate them with the "Q" continuum of Star Trek TNG as well--if that helps grasp this better.
Is that enough?

 

[Graybrew1]

Their are "head/angel/higher power beings" throughout BSG and CAPRICA. Baltar's version didn't make many appearances though. As for the attacks he and millions of others survived. As you watch you will see survivors on CAPRICA in season 1 and in "THE PLAN" (where the cylons run extermination camps). In season 1 --THE FARM-- we see the cylons are collecting females who are of child bearing age all over Caporica for a cylon/human breeding program. One can also assume, that the same goes on all over the colonies. Since CAPRICA and the revelation of the Gemenon STO and their black market cylon army- one could assume that perhaps certain Gemonese are spared for their previous efforts. After all--in the first war the cylons needed human help to obtain weapons, spacecraft and other support. Someone who was capable of speech and free-though had to be there to do the negotiating with the Final 5 when they arrived as well. Remember, if you watched CAPRICA- that the Tauron rebels had cylon troopers as well--one could also assume that--to further their radical ends--the Tauron rebels may have helped to facilitate the cylon rebellion.

but again, all of this requires that "in between the lines/scenes" thinking that ron moore encourages. The same applies for the series finale--as well as a working knowledge of real Earth history/archaelogy/antrhopology and mythology (Adama=Adam-the first man / Apollo=travels the Earth to see what there is to see/spreading knowledge to the humans already here=the mythical Apollo riding his chariot of fire (a "raptor?") and utilizing tech to teach the primitive men he finds how to use fire/ basic society princilples/better hunting/community bldg, etc, etc... Of course all of the 8's (the Sharons) when you look at the map when Adama and the 6 in charge and other cylons pick landing areas-it seems that many of the Sharons go to Asia (SHOCKING!) and lastly (but there is so much more) Adm Adama--Zeus to his Apollo--chooses to self-exile to a mountain top=Zeus on Olympus)

So, according to this lore what happened to the head Six and Angel Gaius?
Do you really believe all colonists would have given up all tech?
If the cylons never die, then we are they not still here, or are they supposed to be?
Did they interbreed with the earthlings?

This is just some of the questions that the ending left me with.