Brad Wright talks about making the SGU season finale a series finale

[Overmind One]

Just call me the Millenium Falcon, I'm full of suprises

Are you aware that there is a Millenium Falcon trinket?

 

[Gatefan1976]

Are you aware that there is a Millenium Falcon trinket?

I am sir, but I wasn't thinking about it at the time to be honest. My mind is currently working on the notion that Eliots poetry may have been the source of inspiration for SGU, it's not very pretty in there at the moment

 

[Overmind One]

I am sir, but I wasn't thinking about it at the time to be honest. My mind is currently working on the notion that Eliots poetry may have been the source of inspiration for SGU, it's not very pretty in there at the moment

 

[Gatefan1976]

View attachment 4207

Sorta, yeah. I might ask JM on his blog.
The more I think of it, the more parallels I can draw the "5 year plan" and the 4 quartets, the heavy use of elemental and sigle word descriptors in the early eps, the name Destiny, the overabundance of time travel eps and so on.
If I am right, I have to give him Kudo's for the vision, but that does not change the basic fact that they simply were not (IMO) up to the task of translating such a piece into a Scifi show.

 

[Mr. A]

I just dont see how to connect SGU with SG-1 and SGA canon. There are too many drastic inconsistencies between SG-1 and SGU, even though they are supposed to be taking place in the same time frame and the same Stargate "universe". The ship, the premise, the events that took place from Air to Gauntlet...nothing matches up. Even in a different timeline in an alternate universe, it still isnt Stargate. It would be like trying to do a crossover between General Hospital and Starship Troopers.

Yep, and in season 1 they were trying to really solidify a connection between SGU and SG-1, by having SEVERAL cameos from SG-1 characters, and they even broke out Daniel Jackson. They had Jack a few times, and we even saw the Hammond again. But in all of season 1, not ONE mention of Atlantis? We must not forget that all of season 1 was in the can by the second week of the show, so that means that The Plan was to have all the cool kids forming SGU churches and having special popcorn nights for the show. None of it worked, and it was a transparent as cellophane.

Yes, SGA was out of it from the get-go and by design. Remember, season 1 was the original plan, while season 2 tried to adapt to the ratings disaster of season 1.

 

[Overmind One]

Yes, SGA was out of it from the get-go and by design. Remember, season 1 was the original plan, while season 2 tried to adapt to the ratings disaster of season 1.

And THAT was what made it so pathetic. Not the changes themselves, but all the dissing of SGA and utterings of Mozz treating Atlantis BEFORE the changes. They wanted to connect SGU directly to SG-1 but when it came to Atlantis...what Atlantis? Even in season 2 they didnt really talk about it, even when Rodney was onboard. Season 2 was a thinly veiled cop out. It was already fatally bleeding by the end of season 1 anyways.

 

[Joelist]

All of which is why I think the best way to tie them all together is to treat SGU as a hallucination created as mental torture by a human form replicator doing their "hand in forehead" routine. Then it could be seamlessly part of a couple of different episodes, although "New Order" seems the most natural fit because of the absence of Atlantis.

 

[YoshiKart64]

Guys the ratings didn't actually get that bad - sure they were lower than Atlantis but there was hardly an inconsequential amount of viewers tuning in next week. Brad thinking his show was good is only confusing to people here because they don't agree - it's not a forgone fact that he's in denial about it. Personally speaking I agree - SGU did deserve a final season. It wasn't perfect but there was a lot to like there and the effort that every single person on the crew brought to the show really shone through. The people Brad thought would be watching are people like me who enjoyed the previous shows and was open to a new kind of story within that canon.

I also think we have to remember that he created SG1 and Atlantis - they are far more his than they are ours. I find it interesting that some are saying he has no claim on his own work and characters. If he wanted to integrate them then that's his prerogative

 

[Gatefan1976]

Guys the ratings didn't actually get that bad - sure they were lower than Atlantis but there was hardly an inconsequential amount of viewers tuning in next week. Brad thinking his show was good is only confusing to people here because they don't agree - it's not a forgone fact that he's in denial about it. Personally speaking I agree - SGU did deserve a final season. It wasn't perfect but there was a lot to like there and the effort that every single person on the crew brought to the show really shone through. The people Brad thought would be watching are people like me who enjoyed the previous shows and was open to a new kind of story within that canon.

I also think we have to remember that he created SG1 and Atlantis - they are far more his than they are ours. I find it interesting that some are saying he has no claim on his own work and characters. If he wanted to integrate them then that's his prerogative

Come on dude. A more expensive show drawing less income than its predecessor, it was bad. I'm not saying that to be mean, but it's just true.
I will not doubt that the cast and crew gave SGU 110%, but at the highest level it was just badly executed. The simple reality of television in this day in age is that you need to pull the viewers in quickly, you simply have no time for drawn out characterisation as a starting point. Is that bad? You know what, quite possibly, is that the reality, yes. Did TPTB know this, hell yes, did they just do what they wanted anyway, yes. BW can be shocked that the show was cancelled from a creative standpoint, but from a "viability" standpoint?? He is not a rube in the industry but a seasoned veteran in dealing with not just MGM but Syfy. He KNEW the playing field he was on, he chose to ignore it.

 

[YoshiKart64]

Come on dude. A more expensive show drawing less income than its predecessor, it was bad. I'm not saying that to be mean, but it's just true.
I will not doubt that the cast and crew gave SGU 110%, but at the highest level it was just badly executed. The simple reality of television in this day in age is that you need to pull the viewers in quickly, you simply have no time for drawn out characterisation as a starting point. Is that bad? You know what, quite possibly, is that the reality, yes. Did TPTB know this, hell yes, did they just do what they wanted anyway, yes. BW can be shocked that the show was cancelled from a creative standpoint, but from a "viability" standpoint?? He is not a rube in the industry but a seasoned veteran in dealing with not just MGM but Syfy. He KNEW the playing field he was on, he chose to ignore it.

I'd say that now, it's very clear that show won't work with Syfy's audience. Back then though Syfy themselves were developing Caprica and we interested in putting that type of show on their network, so there was no way to tell how it was going to resonate. The pilot for SGU received some pretty good feedback as well, as did caprica for that matter, so that confused things further.

I'm sure Brad knows the numbers caused his show to go off the air but I think he meant he was sad creatively speaking. That's what I was agreeing with him on.

 

[Gatefan1976]

I'd say that now, it's very clear that show won't work with Syfy's audience. Back then though Syfy themselves were developing Caprica and we interested in putting that type of show on their network, so there was no way to tell how it was going to resonate. The pilot for SGU received some pretty good feedback as well, as did caprica for that matter, so that confused things further.

I'm sure Brad knows the numbers caused his show to go off the air but I think he meant he was sad creatively speaking. That's what I was agreeing with him on.

I'm confused dude, are you disagreeing or not??
Caprica came from a show that had 2 years of being, for want of a better word, soapy, Stargate had no such pedigree hanging over it. I can see from a creative standpoint why he might be going "whaa??" but from a business standpoint? No, not gonna give him a pass. RDM (or Syfy) have taken pains to assure the potential viewing pool for B&C that it will be an "action packed" series, why do you think that is?
I'll tell you straight up, I liked the pilot for SGU, I was really looking forward to the adventure, but after "air 3", I started to worry, and those worries were bourne out.

 

[YoshiKart64]

I'm confused dude, are you disagreeing or not??
Caprica came from a show that had 2 years of being, for want of a better word, soapy, Stargate had no such pedigree hanging over it. I can see from a creative standpoint why he might be going "whaa??" but from a business standpoint? No, not gonna give him a pass. RDM (or Syfy) have taken pains to assure the potential viewing pool for B&C that it will be an "action packed" series, why do you think that is?
I'll tell you straight up, I liked the pilot for SGU, I was really looking forward to the adventure, but after "air 3", I started to worry, and those worries were bourne out.

I'm agreeing that from a business view, SGU wasn't making money and it's clear why it isn't on the air anymore. But I'm also saying that when it started it would have been difficult to see how an audience would react - would those who didn't like it be replaced by those who did? Now it is easy to see but back in the creation stage it would have been murky. Brad was probably unwilling to create another by the numbers Stargate show just to guarantee viewers. But really my point is, from a creative standpoint, I can sympathize with Brad for wondering why something everyone put so much effort into couldn't get renewed while generic junk with much higher budgets can.

As for Blood and Chrome RDM isn't even involved so I'm not holding out much hope for that one. It seems like they just created a show simply because they wanted that brand and that genre - when a show isn't born creatively it worries me.

 

[Gatefan1976]

I'm agreeing that from a business view, SGU wasn't making money and it's clear why it isn't on the air anymore. But I'm also saying that when it started it would have been difficult to see how an audience would react - would those who didn't like it be replaced by those who did? Now it is easy to see but back in the creation stage it would have been murky. Brad was probably unwilling to create another by the numbers Stargate show just to guarantee viewers. But really my point is, from a creative standpoint, I can sympathize with Brad for wondering why something everyone put so much effort into couldn't get renewed while generic junk with much higher budgets can.

As for Blood and Chrome RDM isn't even involved so I'm not holding out much hope for that one. It seems like they just created a show simply because they wanted that brand and that genre - when a show isn't born creatively it worries me.

How would it be hard to guage audience response dude? NuBSG ratings tumbled in S3-4, which coinceded with the change of direction of NuBSG from an action packed dark action/drama, to "god did it and predestination is all that matters" dramafest. I don't hold Brad in disregard because he wanted to change direction, in fact I've more than once said I don't blame him for getting tired of doing "S.S.D.D.".
As to "generic junk with higher budgets getting renewed", Umm, what show do you mean? I'll withold from commenting on that as I don't know what shows you mean. I doubt ANY show on Syfy had the budget of SGU and produced similar results and is still on the air to be honest, but, I could be wrong. Also, what gives Brad the goddamn right to say "I did more, My show deserves it more". Every showmaker thinks thier show is the Shizznit, why is he special? The fans are feeling a sense of entitlement?? Pot calling kettle here.

 

[YoshiKart64]

How would it be hard to guage audience response dude? NuBSG ratings tumbled in S3-4, which coinceded with the change of direction of NuBSG from an action packed dark action/drama, to "god did it and predestination is all that matters" dramafest. I don't hold Brad in disregard because he wanted to change direction, in fact I've more than once said I don't blame him for getting tired of doing "S.S.D.D.".
As to "generic junk with higher budgets getting renewed", Umm, what show do you mean? I'll withold from commenting on that as I don't know what shows you mean. I doubt ANY show on Syfy had the budget of SGU and produced similar results and is still on the air to be honest, but, I could be wrong. Also, what gives Brad the goddamn right to say "I did more, My show deserves it more". Every showmaker thinks thier show is the Shizznit, why is he special? The fans are feeling a sense of entitlement?? Pot calling kettle here.

I'm just saying that Caprica was on the cards for Syfy when this was happening. MGM may have thought the network was moving in that direction and this show would fit in well. Clearly Syfy planned a lineup for a different audience than the one it had, but I think it''s harsh to blame Brad/MGM for that.

Generic Junk - just referring to things like American Idol, Two and a Half Men, the kind of things where very little effort is put in creatively and yet they print money. Then you look over to something like Sanctuary and just think something's up. But yeh just to clarify - not hating on anyone's shows .

Also I'm not saying fans are feeling entitled, I'm saying Brad IS entitled a lot more than we give him credit for. They are his creations after all and I think that earns him the right to do with them as he wishes.

 

[Gatefan1976]

I'm just saying that Caprica was on the cards for Syfy when this was happening. MGM may have thought the network was moving in that direction and this show would fit in well. Clearly Syfy planned a lineup for a different audience than the one it had, but I think it''s harsh to blame Brad/MGM for that.

Why?
They saw what happened to BSG before anything happened in regards to SGU. If MGM thought this was where Syfy was going, did something stop them from asking Syfy what they wanted? It's crap Yoshi, utter crap. They are pulling every excuse in the book to say "It wasn't my fault", Even at creation con Brad supposedly pushed the blame on to Rob Cooper, nice considering Rob all but turned in his Kawoosh. Part of ANY product is R&D, where was the R&D for SGU??

Generic Junk - just referring to things like American Idol, Two and a Half Men, the kind of things where very little effort is put in creatively and yet they print money. Then you look over to something like Sanctuary and just think something's up. But yeh just to clarify - not hating on anyone's shows .

Fair enough, but to think that the writers of any other scripted show is inherently "inferior" to your own, well, work out where I'm going here.

Also I'm not saying fans are feeling entitled, I'm saying Brad IS entitled a lot more than we give him credit for. They are his creations after all and I think that earns him the right to do with them as he wishes.

YES, Brad is ENTITLED to do whatever he wishes with his vision of stargate, the fans, no matter how they feel, are ENTITLED to respond how they wish. It's a two way steet mate, and it is has been that way for years. Supply and demand, simple as that. Is it unfair that good concepts die? of course it is, is it up to the consumer to decide what it wants, of course it is.

 

[YoshiKart64]

Why?
They saw what happened to BSG before anything happened in regards to SGU. If MGM thought this was where Syfy was going, did something stop them from asking Syfy what they wanted? It's crap Yoshi, utter crap. They are pulling every excuse in the book to say "It wasn't my fault", Even at creation con Brad supposedly pushed the blame on to Rob Cooper, nice considering Rob all but turned in his Kawoosh. Part of ANY product is R&D, where was the R&D for SGU??

That's what I'm saying, I think this IS what Syfy wanted. As I said they were developing Caprica themselves, they thought this is what their audience would respond to. As for R and D, I'm sure they're are plenty of fans who wanted darker and more character driven plots. Let's not forget that the drop was from an average of 1.6 million (SGA) to 1.2 million (SGU) so that shows it was a pretty divided response.

Fair enough, but to think that the writers of any other scripted show is inherently "inferior" to your own, well, work out where I'm going here.

Yeh fair enough. It was me that said, not him though, I don't think he was comparing.

YES, Brad is ENTITLED to do whatever he wishes with his vision of stargate, the fans, no matter how they feel, are ENTITLED to respond how they wish. It's a two way steet mate, and it is has been that way for years. Supply and demand, simple as that. Is it unfair that good concepts die? of course it is, is it up to the consumer to decide what it wants, of course it is.

I agree the fans can respond how they wish. I'm just saying those that think Brad has no right to touch the SGA/SG1 cast are being a little harsh. Some may not like it, but he does have the right to create his vision with his characters.

 

[Gatefan1976]

That's what I'm saying, I think this IS what Syfy wanted. As I said they were developing Caprica themselves, they thought this is what their audience would respond to. As for R and D, I'm sure they're are plenty of fans who wanted darker and more character driven plots. Let's not forget that the drop was from an average of 1.6 million (SGA) to 1.2 million (SGU) so that shows it was a pretty divided response.

As loathe as I am to quote JM, He said himself Syfy did not ask them to do any such thing.
R&D, come on, there was an outcry when the first character readings/descriptions came out, why not listen to what people said then?

Yeh fair enough. It was me that said, not him though, I don't think he was comparing.

well, that was you and I spitballing, I won't take it as "Brad's Law"

I agree the fans can respond how they wish. I'm just saying those that think Brad has no right to touch the SGA/SG1 cast are being a little harsh. Some may not like it, but he does have the right to create his vision with his characters.

Sure he can, He can do what he wants to, and he did.

 

[YoshiKart64]

As loathe as I am to quote JM, He said himself Syfy did not ask them to do any such thing.
R&D, come on, there was an outcry when the first character readings/descriptions came out, why not listen to what people said then?.

Those are meant to be vague and general, just to get roughly the right actors in to audition. Basing fan reaction around that would have ridiculous - I'd bet the Atlantis and SG1 versions look just as awful.
Plus I'm kind of biased here since I thought the characters turned out well in the end.

 

[Stonelesscutter]

I could see a crossover working, but I could tell you the basic plot outline as well.

They find out that they are the cause of the background radiation, they were the original creators and progenitors of the Ancient and Ori races (already foreshadowed in the last couple of eps). The Destiny has a chair device so at some point it can hook into the Atlantis chair (which, as they know what is to come, based thier designs off) so you have the SGA tie in, SG-1 tie in's are already allowed via the stones anyway.

It's an eternity loop and it's not new, it's not groundbreaking Scifi stuff. Even Red Dwarf has this concept in the episode "Ouroberous" for crying out loud. (and is further developed in the actual books). Geez, if I'm right, no wonder they wanted to nab a younger audience, preferably one that had not read or seen this kind of thing before.
Everything old is new again at some point I guess.

Another one for the "You know you are mature when..."-thread.
I'm not so sure about your prediction of the eternity loop.

 

[Stonelesscutter]

I just dont see how to connect SGU with SG-1 and SGA canon. There are too many drastic inconsistencies between SG-1 and SGU, even though they are supposed to be taking place in the same time frame and the same Stargate "universe". The ship, the premise, the events that took place from Air to Gauntlet...nothing matches up. Even in a different timeline in an alternate universe, it still isnt Stargate. It would be like trying to do a crossover between General Hospital and Starship Troopers.

That would easily work.
The bugs slice up the troopers and the hospital staff patch em back together as best they can.