Will dumb audiences kill genuine science fiction broadcasting for good?

[Overmind One]

I am disappointed once again. This time, it was Primeval: New World. This show was killed for low ratings and I can understand how that works after having seen so many shows get the axe. But whose fault is it that science fiction programming seems to be moving into drama-based serials (soap operas), only with science fiction-y elements slathered on the surface like ketchup? I blamed the writers, I blamed time slots and I blamed cable channels. I even blame the ratings entities. And this goes for the other shows I have seen get dragged back to the Cancellation Bear's cave, never to be seen again except as a pathetic "Save (insert show here) Now!" campaign on Facebook or on a hastily put together website. Petitions are signed, attempts are made at trying to revive the dead shows, and eventually the interest fades into nothing.

So, what is going on here?

I now think the "blame" (if I am calling it that), lies squarely within the viewing audience. Lets face it, audiences are "dumber" today than they were 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago. Today, scifi audiences are no longer interested in actual science, and most science seems to fall into the category of "technobabble" for these viewers. And I am not talking about the entire scifi fan demographic for broadcast viewing, just the largest part of it which is 12-34 years old. Cable offerings must appeal to these viewers to see successful ratings numbers. Males in this group tend to want to see action, sex and special effects. Females in this group tend to want to see drama, sex and relationships. Many of us here are outside of the target viewing audience for new shows.

Science fiction does not make ratings for broadcast television anymore, even though it does insanely well in theaters. That is, unless you create a drama and throw in some aliens or a few space ships and ray guns and call it something "space-like". A newer tactic is taking established genres and skinning them in scifi drag. An example of this is Continuum which is basically a cop-drama set in a science fiction plotline. Basically, what I am saying is that the genuine core of science fiction programming may have been replaced with a synthetic substitute, and that makes me very sad.

 

[Gatefan1976]

I think you are missing one element of the scifi viewer, and it's this:

 

[Overmind One]

I think you are missing one element of the scifi viewer, and it's this:

Arrrgh! Yep, I am guilty of it myself. But still, that activity is probably not as impactful on these shows as are the ratings. I dont really know. But I do know that the younger set is definitely not as into science fiction (as we know it) as much as our more "mature" demographic was. There is no space race, not much in terms of mainstream science endeavors and not a lot of reward for being science literate for younger people. They dont even have the shuttle launches anymore to inspire them.

What I really want to see is this:

 

[Gatefan1976]

Arrrgh! Yep, I am guilty of it myself. But still, that activity is probably not as impactful on these shows as are the ratings.

I can't say for fact (obviously) but it would seem to me to make a huge impact. You are always hearing tales of just how downloaded scifi shows are from the net either legally or illegally and it's always the more "harder" scifi shows that get these big downloads. If your core audience for hard scifi simply isn't watching on TV, you cannot expect such shows to have high ratings. The obvious follow on is a quick visit from the cancellation bear and a lack of confidence in any network to produce similar shows. Instead they fall back on the tired old formula's they know will sell, or cheap junk. Basically, the audience itself is removing itself from the "mainstream TV equation" with the result being networks not catering to them, and really, why should they?

I dont really know. But I do know that the younger set is definitely not as into science fiction (as we know it) as much as our more "mature" demographic was.

*Takes the lightsabres of the kids*
You were saying?

There is no space race, not much in terms of mainstream science endeavors and not a lot of reward for being science literate for younger people. They dont even have the shuttle launches anymore to inspire them.

It's not as "in your face" as it was when say your age group was growing up (space race etc), or mine (American shuttle launches mostly) but it's still all out there with the target being mars now. You have stuff like Virgin Galactic wanting to become not just a reality but an affordable reality. There IS alot out there in the realms of "semi sci-fi" science, but it get buried under the mess of TV, online activities and sensationalistic "journalism" that lives for the next tragedy that you have to actually going digging for it.

 

[Overmind One]

I can't say for fact (obviously) but it would seem to me to make a huge impact. You are always hearing tales of just how downloaded scifi shows are from the net either legally or illegally and it's always the more "harder" scifi shows that get these big downloads. If your core audience for hard scifi simply isn't watching on TV, you cannot expect such shows to have high ratings. The obvious follow on is a quick visit from the cancellation bear and a lack of confidence in any network to produce similar shows. Instead they fall back on the tired old formula's they know will sell, or cheap junk. Basically, the audience itself is removing itself from the "mainstream TV equation" with the result being networks not catering to them, and really, why should they?

This. I admit, I have downloaded entire seasons at a time. I have ALL the Star Trek series, every season, every episode, every show...I sometimes tell my media player to randomize my science fiction series folder and play it all day. The experience is the same as broadcast TV (except is commercial free). Star Trek, perhaps Firefly, then the original BSG and perhaps SG-1...you never know what you are gonna see. But from the broadcast viewpoint, why should they continue to create good science fiction if there is nothing in it for them?

*Takes the lightsabres of the kids*
You were saying?

Well, they have a scifi dad! My dad was also a science fiction buff, but he was more into HG Wells, Isaac Azimov, Ray Bradbury...the books. I was inspired by those plus the space race and the moon landings and all of the cool probes and the search for life. I remember the period UFO flaps, Betty and Barney Hill, Close Encounters, etc. Today, you dont have that.

It's not as "in your face" as it was when say your age group was growing up (space race etc), or mine (American shuttle launches mostly) but it's still all out there with the target being mars now. You have stuff like Virgin Galactic wanting to become not just a reality but an affordable reality. There IS alot out there in the realms of "semi sci-fi" science, but it get buried under the mess of TV, online activities and sensationalistic "journalism" that lives for the next tragedy that you have to actually going digging for it.

A manned Mars mission would inspire an entire generation, especially if that culminated with the official discovery of life.

 

[Gatefan1976]

This. I admit, I have downloaded entire seasons at a time. I have ALL the Star Trek series, every season, every episode, every show...I sometimes tell my media player to randomize my science fiction series folder and play it all day. The experience is the same as broadcast TV (except is commercial free). Star Trek, perhaps Firefly, then the original BSG and perhaps SG-1...you never know what you are gonna see. But from the broadcast viewpoint, why should they continue to create good science fiction if there is nothing in it for them?

Of course, weather we like it or not 2 things pay the bills for Networks and studio's.
1: Advertising on TV. (network)
2: DVD sales (Studio)
You have just cut off both streams of revenue.
Now, we can discuss how much of a dinosaur the notion of shows being paid for by ads are till we are blue in the face, probably agreeing with eachother mind you, but until net based broadcasting takes off or they find a way to monetize internet viewership (and not these crappy netflix models that *might* be able to produce 1-3 seasons per year of popular styles of shows), we are basically up shit street.

Well, they have a scifi dad! My dad was also a science fiction buff, but he was more into HG Wells, Isaac Azimov, Ray Bradbury...the books. I was inspired by those plus the space race and the moon landings and all of the cool probes and the search for life. I remember the period UFO flaps, Betty and Barney Hill, Close Encounters, etc. Today, you dont have that.

Imagine everything you may like about me, take it to the other end of the spectrum, and you get my dad

A manned Mars mission would inspire an entire generation, especially if that culminated with the official discovery of life.

They are working on it dude, and perhaps it will. We just have to wait and see I guess

 

[Bluce Ree]

I think you are missing one element of the scifi viewer, and it's this:

Sorry, dude, but the reality is that has no impact. If a sci-fi flick were popular enough to attract significant downloads then it would be a profitable blockbuster. I'm sure Disney Studios won't shelf The Avengers because they only made $1.499999 billion instead of $1.5 billion on the first one.
--- merged: Mar 1, 2013 at 3:07 PM ---

Of course, weather we like it or not 2 things pay the bills for Networks and studio's.
1: Advertising on TV. (network)
2: DVD sales (Studio)
You have just cut off both streams of revenue.
Now, we can discuss how much of a dinosaur the notion of shows being paid for by ads are till we are blue in the face, probably agreeing with eachother mind you, but until net based broadcasting takes off or they find a way to monetize internet viewership (and not these crappy netflix models that *might* be able to produce 1-3 seasons per year of popular styles of shows), we are basically up shit street.

Imagine everything you may like about me, take it to the other end of the spectrum, and you get my dad



They are working on it dude, and perhaps it will. We just have to wait and see I guess

I don't mind the ads or paying to see a good flick on the silver screen when it's good quality viewing.

 

[Overmind One]

Sorry, dude, but the reality is that has no impact. If a sci-fi flick were popular enough to attract significant downloads then it would be a profitable blockbuster. I'm sure Disney Studios won't shelf The Avengers because they only made $1.499999 billion instead of $1.5 billion on the first one.
--- merged: Mar 1, 2013 at 3:07 PM ---


I don't mind the ads or paying to see a good flick on the silver screen when it's good quality viewing.

This is the difference. The movie science fiction does insanely well. It also does not have to rely on advertising dollars much, since you are essentially paying for play, and a tidy sum as well. The theater vendors make money, parking valets make money, and tie-ins make money. But what about our bread and butter scifi SERIES? Those are swimming in much different waters. They must rely on viewership numbers which speak to the advertising firms. They have to see results every week. They have to get a return on every episode. And the law of decreasing interest is just a way of life for TV shows, even if they have extremely long runs like SG-1 had or the Trek series (with the exception of Enterprise and TOS).

Downloading will most likely not affect a movie as much as a broadcast series. I think monetizing the online viewership will provide a new model.

 

[Bluce Ree]

This. I admit, I have downloaded entire seasons at a time. I have ALL the Star Trek series, every season, every episode, every show...I sometimes tell my media player to randomize my science fiction series folder and play it all day. The experience is the same as broadcast TV (except is commercial free). Star Trek, perhaps Firefly, then the original BSG and perhaps SG-1...you never know what you are gonna see. But from the broadcast viewpoint, why should they continue to create good science fiction if there is nothing in it for them?

I sometimes tune into Youtube and queue up a bunch of sci-fi shows that have full episodes and let them run throughout the day as I'm working. I recently did a Space:1999 marathon. They have both full seasons available on Youtube.

Well, they have a scifi dad! My dad was also a science fiction buff, but he was more into HG Wells, Isaac Azimov, Ray Bradbury...the books. I was inspired by those plus the space race and the moon landings and all of the cool probes and the search for life. I remember the period UFO flaps, Betty and Barney Hill, Close Encounters, etc. Today, you dont have that.

My father-in-law is a modern sci-fi guy. It's a blast having an in-depth conversation on our favorite TNG episodes with someone from the previous generation!

A manned Mars mission would inspire an entire generation, especially if that culminated with the official discovery of life.

Even a manned moon mission would inspire a generation. The tech is being developed to send unmanned 3D printers to the moon to build a complex that can support long-term manned missions. It would be a fantastic launch pad for space exploration and serve as an inspiration to rekindle our fascination with the cosmos.

 

[Overmind One]

Of course, weather we like it or not 2 things pay the bills for Networks and studio's.
1: Advertising on TV. (network)
2: DVD sales (Studio)
You have just cut off both streams of revenue.
Now, we can discuss how much of a dinosaur the notion of shows being paid for by ads are till we are blue in the face, probably agreeing with eachother mind you, but until net based broadcasting takes off or they find a way to monetize internet viewership (and not these crappy netflix models that *might* be able to produce 1-3 seasons per year of popular styles of shows), we are basically up shit street.

Imagine everything you may like about me, take it to the other end of the spectrum, and you get my dad



They are working on it dude, and perhaps it will. We just have to wait and see I guess

DVDs are walking dead. I give them no more than 5 years before you see them go the way of VHS. But they can monetize online views with a model much like Amazon Prime has. A pay for digital rental sorta thing. When that paradigm becomes more mainstream, the last bastion of viewing entertainment will be threatened directly: movie theaters. If you have a 3D capable large screen TV and decent sound system, it makes no sense to pay to see a movie UNLESS you cant get the first run at home (which you cant right now). When that is possible, the theaters will become more and more obsolete.

Advertisers may themselves become threatened if viewers decide they want to pay a premium to eliminate commercials. The market is definitely there for those would would GLADLY pay up to double the normal price for viewing services not to see a single commercial. That cuts down the dependence on the advertising dollars.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Sorry, dude, but the reality is that has no impact. If a sci-fi flick were popular enough to attract significant downloads then it would be a profitable blockbuster. I'm sure Disney Studios won't shelf The Avengers because they only made $1.499999 billion instead of $1.5 billion on the first one.

Except the topic is not Movies, where yes I would agree it has little impact, but TV shows.

 

[Overmind One]

Except the topic is not Movies, where yes I would agree it has little impact, but TV shows.

Yes, I just pointed that out.

 

[Gatefan1976]

DVDs are walking dead. I give them no more than 5 years before you see them go the way of VHS.

Why are they dead?

But they can monetize online views with a model much like Amazon Prime has. A pay for digital rental sorta thing.

OK, if that is so ameniable, why instead of buying the DVD's for your shows or renting them on a pay per watch basis do you have them all downloaded?
And how much are you prepared to pay per episode? It would take 4 million viewers 6 dollars per ep to pay for a standard ep of a scifi show, and before you say 4 mill is not hard across the world, that won't work because whatever local classification group will delay it for review, giving people a chance to copy and distribute it anyway.

When that paradigm becomes more mainstream, the last bastion of viewing entertainment will be threatened directly: movie theaters. If you have a 3D capable large screen TV and decent sound system, it makes no sense to pay to see a movie UNLESS you cant get the first run at home (which you cant right now). When that is possible, the theaters will become more and more obsolete.

And when that time comes, will you be prepared to pay 30 bucks to watch a movie at home, because I don't think the studio's will accept less money than they are getting now

Advertisers may themselves become threatened if viewers decide they want to pay a premium to eliminate commercials. The market is definitely there for those would would GLADLY pay up to double the normal price for viewing services not to see a single commercial. That cuts down the dependence on the advertising dollars.

Prove this market exists, because I honestly cannot see it happening.

 

[Gate_Boarder]

I hate to say this but we are turning into a dying breed. There is no one left to watch Sci-Fi as we have all died off. What the kids see in the movies is not sci-fi but moving comics. There appears to be nothing in common between the two genres except for the shiny new props that the special effects people like to use.

Primeval is a special case as it was not shown on the main TV network CTV, with very little outside advertising that I noticed, along with the grinding gears that the first few shows produced it was unfortunately destined to almost fail from the beginning.

As Showcase and SyFy have developed some sort of incestuous relationship in the last few years. I can see that becoming more intertwined if Primeval has a successful run outside of the Canadian market. Would there be an opportunity for one of CTV's main competitors to poke them in the eye if they gave it a go and did a successful re-boot of Primeval with SyFys assistance? Now that would be rich if they could pull it off.

So far, the same people who are making Continuum were supposed to be making a pilot called High Moon for SyFy. As far as I know that project must of slipped out of Vancouver or has found itself hiding in a paper basket somewhere.

Sci-Fi on TV is deeply in trouble with no one willing to go and seek it out. If there is no word of mouth, or FaceBook, or Twitter then things just don't make it anymore.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Except the topic is not Movies, where yes I would agree it has little impact, but TV shows.

Yes, I just pointed that out.

Overall, it doesn't affect the shows themselves, either, and TV isn't hurt by so-called "pirating". TV's problem isn't the lack of viewership in general but the lack of viewership for the shit they're putting out and poor scheduling. Successful shows find their revenue in broadcast TV, streaming media and, to a much lesser degree, DVD sales. It's the TV networks themselves that will hurt in the future and it's mainly due to their absolute hatred and fear of all things Internet.

When I want to catch an episode of a popular show that I've missed, I have the choice of either waiting sometimes hours for a torrent of the episode or point my browser to the network's site or Hulu and watch it now. I usually choose the latter two and the commercials don't bother me so much when I enjoy the show.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Overall, it doesn't affect the shows themselves, either, and TV isn't hurt by so-called "pirating".

"So called" Pirating??!!??
You take something you have nither paid for nor have any rights to use, WTF is "so called" about that??

TV's problem isn't the lack of viewership in general but the lack of viewership for the shit they're putting out and poor scheduling.

For sure on that, we live in a 24/7 work world now and not everyone is home at the "traditional viewing times" we were just 20 years ago.

Successful shows find their revenue in broadcast TV, streaming media and, to a much lesser degree, DVD sales.

If a show fails on broadcast/cable, it is unlikely to survive via streaming media or DVD.

It's the TV networks themselves that will hurt in the future and it's mainly due to their absolute hatred and fear of all things Internet.

For sure, but the internet thus far has just proven to be a place where they lose money, so it;'s not really any wonder they are suspicious of it.

When I want to catch an episode of a popular show that I've missed, I have the choice of either waiting sometimes hours for a torrent of the episode or point my browser to the network's site or Hulu and watch it now. I usually choose the latter two and the commercials don't bother me so much when I enjoy the show.

Well there is the rub isn't it? You don't mind em, I don't mind em, but plenty of people do.

 

[mzzz]

They should dedicate a few shows in cartoon format for sci-fi. Hell, I think even sci-fi fans could manage to do that, would be cheap to make and you could go 'where no man has gone before' with cartoons. You're not limited to some budget. I'm sure there are sci-fi fans are pretty good with graphics and whatnot to put together something like this. Half my philosophy class are sci-fi fans, I'm sure they would have interesting, deep stories. There's enough people who know science, sort of, from the sci-fi crowd.

 

[SciphonicStranger]

I've been wondering why one of the PPV channels (HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, Starz) hasn't taken a plunge with a science fiction show lately. Maybe we're just in a dead zone for good new ideas.

 

[mzzz]

I've been wondering why one of the PPV channels (HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, Starz) hasn't taken a plunge with a science fiction show lately. Maybe we're just in a dead zone for good new ideas.

HBO is sorta branching out with fantasy and game of thrones which kinda fits the general tone HBO shows have. Maybe you should write up a script with gratuitous nudity and present it to em? I mean, as much as I dislike Game of Thrones, it does sorta show there really is an audience. The kind of numbers it's getting.

 

[SciphonicStranger]

HBO is sorta branching out with fantasy and game of thrones which kinda fits the general tone HBO shows have. Maybe you should write up a script with gratuitous nudity and present it to em? I mean, as much as I dislike Game of Thrones, it does sorta show there really is an audience. The kind of numbers it's getting.

I'll get to work on that. Maybe I will call it The Taming of Seven of Nine.