Red Dawn 2012 - Really? Seriously?!?

[Joelist]

Remember I am more of a SciFi than Western buff (after all unlike pretty much anyone else here I know where your username comes from remember?). I do like some Westerns (for example "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon", "El Dorado" and "The Horse Soldiers" are all classics). I also was a fan of Palladin (Have Gun Will Travel). Plus I have fun recognizing the archetypal elements in Westerns and other films.

 

[OMNI]

That's why I said the RD remake would have been better making the invaders disgruntled Spice Girls groupies. That way you do it as a goofy spoof a la "The Mouse that Roared". And yes John Carter would have benefitted from a setting change to an alternate reality.

As to weapons that knock everything out, that would normally be EMP. EMP however is usually caused via nuclear detonations and a strong enough pulse to knock down our hardened military communications would have sent the whole continent back to the proverbial stone age. And even then our SSBNs (the Ohio class Trident Submarines) would still be operational and would launch - North Korea or China for that matter would be obliterated.

stone age for a while besides sheilding against EMP is fairly easy and im pretty sure anything and EVRYTHING defence related in the states or any other country has sheilding against it.

the idea for this movie is just seriously retarded..

 

[OMNI]

Oh, I know we are quibbling semantics here dude
However, I would be curious to know what Omni thinks of the difference between Pixar "animation" and "traditional cell animation", Not so much the obvious differences, but the "technical difference", quite simply is a cartoon a cartoon a cartoon?

not sure i follow..

about the techinical diference tho nowdays much of what you see as "drawn" in cartoons are only partially drawn CG has pretty much taken over much of that aswell..
explain what you mean and ill try to weigh in..

 

[OMNI]

True, but that is NOT Anime, at least from the definition I or a dictionary knows. I don't know what they call it to be honest. In Japan, it may well be called Anime, but as far as the "west" goes, that description isn't accurate.
Aren't semantics fun

Bluce is right and you are wrong ima afraid. anime/japanimation is a collection name ie same way we say "toons/Cartoon" as per the western definmition.. its not something anyone should listen to and i know Japanese people who are really offended when we havnt bothered to look it up and get it right..

 

[OMNI]

I think that a GREAT movie like Red Dawn is only "great" when you were living in the actual Cold War and you understood the subtle messages in the movie because you were living in those times. But it does not play well in a post Cold War world, because there is no way for a newer audience to connect with it in the same way. However the premise for the movie could have held only before things like surveillance satellites, GPS and the Internet were invented. For a long time not too long ago, war movies were all the rage. That was because there were lots of em, in Vietnam, Korea, Desert Storm, Iraq and Afghanistan, Somalia, etc. Now, nobody wants to see them. Same with westerns (what's a "western"?) .

Red Dawn does not have a context today, at least not with its original premise or anything similar. I cant think of any elements that one could use from that movie to "update". Only the (enemy) boy meets (American) girl thing, and perhaps the ceasing of hostilities for humanistic reasons could be done, but aren't those things in most every new movie these days? I very much doubt they will remake Tarzan, or try to make an "epic western" anytime soon. Red Dawn...a remake? Like, seriously????

didnt they already do that?

 

[Gatefan1976]

not sure i follow..

about the techinical diference tho nowdays much of what you see as "drawn" in cartoons are only partially drawn CG has pretty much taken over much of that aswell..
explain what you mean and ill try to weigh in..

Ok
For example, OM see's CGI animation such as "cars" to be a seperate beast from "traditional cell format animation", yet from a *professional standpoint* are they really that different besides the level of tech involved? I'm *not* talking "rendering(?)" here like you do with your wire frame models to make photorealistic images, merely the *presentation* of them. Is "Tom and Jerry" a cartoon in the same sense that "Cars" is a cartoon?

 

[Gatefan1976]

Bluce is right and you are wrong ima afraid. anime/japanimation is a collection name ie same way we say "toons/Cartoon" as per the western definmition.. its not something anyone should listen to and i know Japanese people who are really offended when we havnt bothered to look it up and get it right..

I don't mind being wrong dude
But if you know, is thier a catagory between "kids anime", "teen/adult anime" (IE, the western definition) and Hentai?

 

[Rac80]

Meh, you are probably right. About "Unforgiven", it did well in the sense that it made you remember it long enough to tell me it exists (for the first time Im hearing about it). I used to love westerns like The Lone Ranger and Big Valley and Wagon Train. But at some point early on, it became astronauts and aliens instead of cowboys and indians. Also, my GI Joe had it rough under my command! I like westerns for the flair and the surroundings, but the stories of bandits and outlaws just does not connect with me. But that is just me. I know millions of people still love them.

Green for Big Valley!!! I loved Big Valley--- actually still do...Lee Majors was my idea of the perfect Cowboy (helped that the man can wear wranglers VERY well! ) and the show has stood up to rewatching quite well. with Barbara Stanwyck as the lead, the show definitely had some gravitas.

I like westerns if they are well done (- cowboys and aliens was not well done!) and sorry there is no one like John Wayne out there. But I admit to being more into scifi these days. (GOOD scifi!)

 

[OMNI]

Ok
For example, OM see's CGI animation such as "cars" to be a seperate beast from "traditional cell format animation", yet from a *professional standpoint* are they really that different besides the level of tech involved? I'm *not* talking "rendering(?)" here like you do with your wire frame models to make photorealistic images, merely the *presentation* of them. Is "Tom and Jerry" a cartoon in the same sense that "Cars" is a cartoon?

yes. (imo)

I don't mind being wrong dude
But if you know, is thier a catagory between "kids anime", "teen/adult anime" (IE, the western definition) and Hentai?

there probably is but as a western whitey i dont know, but going by how big anime is over there im sure they have sections like we do in a video store ie adult action drama etc etc.. but overall ANIME meand Animation ie animated (moving) images ie they say anime we say animation and that encompases both Drawn and 3d rendered images.

 

[Illiterati]

My issue with North Koreans for Red Dawn is that they are so insular that they rarely, if every, do anything beyond their own borders.I suspect it has something to do with the brainwashing of their people into thinking that the rest of the world is some kind of terrible cesspool. They wouldn't want to have to admit that they were lying.At that point, their beloved/dear/glorious leader wouldn't be referred to in such glowing tones.Thus, WAY too much required suspension of disbelief for me to be able to see the damned thing.

 

[Overmind One]

Bluce is right and you are wrong ima afraid. anime/japanimation is a collection name ie same way we say "toons/Cartoon" as per the western definmition.. its not something anyone should listen to and i know Japanese people who are really offended when we havnt bothered to look it up and get it right..

I get that when people use the word "organic" to describe things like pictures or devices. NO SUCH THING. Anime/Hentai/Japanimation all are just names attached to the same thing sorta like people call pancakes "flapjacks". The UK call all cookies and crackers "biscuits", and they call chips "crisps", but they are the same thing. On GateFan76's side, I notice that everything considered "anime" features characters with HUGE eyes, pointed and angular features with sharp points on them and tiny mouths. This even goes back to shows like Kimba and Speed Racer. Still, I do not see animate as being different from cartoons insofar as them being animated and doing impossible things that can only be done in animation. Just a thought, since I am an anime newbie.

 

[shavedape]

 

[shavedape]

I'll just leave this right here...

 

[shavedape]

Meh, you are probably right. About "Unforgiven", it did well in the sense that it made you remember it long enough to tell me it exists (for the first time Im hearing about it). I used to love westerns like The Lone Ranger and Big Valley and Wagon Train. But at some point early on, it became astronauts and aliens instead of cowboys and indians. Also, my GI Joe had it rough under my command! I like westerns for the flair and the surroundings, but the stories of bandits and outlaws just does not connect with me. But that is just me. I know millions of people still love them.

Westerns had their moment of popularity in the 50's and 60's. Sure there were earlier westerns and later ones but that seems to be the era that they reached their zenith. I remember when I was out in Utah and Arizona on an extended camping trip some years ago and there were several towns that boasted film "museums" where they showed photos of all the westerns that had been filmed there.

If you think about it it was relatively cheap to film westerns as all you needed was some costuming, some horses and lots of extras. The scenery was relatively free for the most part. And later on when filming became more expensive (as it always does) directors like Sergio Leone filmed American westerns on the cheap in Italy hence the term "Spaghetti western". The sun scaled Italian scenery could pass for the American southwest, at least good enough to make those films. Also, Clint Eastwood made his name in spaghetti westerns. (I hope you're taking notes, kids, cuz there's gonna be a quiz later on and it counts for 65% of your grade this quarter.)

I've never been a huge western film fan but in recent years I've come to appreciate them. The one good thing I can say about Hollywood and remakes is that when they remake a western it's usually done well, like the recent remake of True Grit. Plus original westerns are usually quite good too. Since they don't have to worry about SFX too much they tend to focus on authentic costuming and the actors seem to really develop the characters.

And lastly, without getting too deep into it, the themes and premises of westerns are usually very easy to understand and forthright. They're often simple tales of good verses evil without any pretense of something grander. I like that, it seems honest to me.

Now western themed night clubs, well, those are just an abomination and defy everything that's good and holy. Man wasn't meant to dance in cowboy boots nor perform karaoke either (thanks a lot California). Such things can only mean we're in the end of days and the Rapture is near or something like that. Repent ye pointy toed, shit kicker-wearin' heathens!

 

[Overmind One]

View attachment 7499

Thats just....scary.