Red Dawn 2012 - Really? Seriously?!?

[Overmind One]

100% agree. The only solution, sadly, is to drag the whole movie to the desktop recycle bin and start again.

I have an idea, why don't they just create a movie about a lost dog and call it Hunt for Red October? Better yet, lets just make a story about a doctor who talks to animals and call it When Worlds Collide? . So, the new trend is to take familiar names and attach them to completely unrelated stories or ridiculous CGI-fests? The upcoming Total Recall is another example of a fail before release. Total Recall without Mars? Really? Colin Farell?

 

[Rac80]

we loved the original Red Dawn (and living in utah a hop, skip and a jump from Colorado at the time only made it more fun!) they weren't russians guys but cubans, el salvadorans, and other south american communist troops trained by russians (also ahd russian advisors)...they came up through texas (hey we need a fence there ya know!) but NORTH KOREANS?????really??? I mean come on-- they would probably have a lot of "friendly fire" incidents or attack the first mcd's they saw!!!! yeah major fail! despite Chris Helmsworth (in the patrick swayze role! yowsah!)

 

[Gatefan1976]

Oh Hey, I just noticed this

I agree. GateFan and some others here hate to think of their anime as cartoons, but to me they are ALL cartoons. . I hate searching through Netflix movies looking for stuff that sounds interesting, then picking one and finding out it is animated or "anime" (cartoon). I do not understand why these cartoons are compared with live action movies AT ALL. Now CGI OTOH is not cartoony. It is real enough when used in live action stuff to be more than acceptable. But that is a whole other thread.

I don't hate to think of Anime as "cartoons", they are cartoons, *However*, the use of the term "Anime" is to seperate it from stuff like Tom and Jerry, Wackey racers and such. I dunno if you watch alot of Disney and or Pixar movies, but I DO know you like "Cars". Would you compare Cars and the underlying themes behind "just the fun" and seriously attempt to compare it to Scooby Doo?!?
The reason *I* compare Anime to feature films is not just what you see on screen, but the themes, tone and tenor that Anime is capable of handling. Find yourself a copy of something like the Cowboy Beebop movie and rather than just sitting there and watching it going "this is just a cartoon", listen to the storyline. The essence of movies *IS* the story, not just the pretty pictures you see on screen, cause if you think that, you would have thought SGU was a masterpeice.

 

[Overmind One]

Oh Hey, I just noticed this



I don't hate to think of Anime as "cartoons", they are cartoons, *However*, the use of the term "Anime" is to seperate it from stuff like Tom and Jerry, Wackey racers and such. I dunno if you watch alot of Disney and or Pixar movies, but I DO know you like "Cars". Would you compare Cars and the underlying themes behind "just the fun" and seriously attempt to compare it to Scooby Doo?!?
The reason *I* compare Anime to feature films is not just what you see on screen, but the themes, tone and tenor that Anime is capable of handling. Find yourself a copy of something like the Cowboy Beebop movie and rather than just sitting there and watching it going "this is just a cartoon", listen to the storyline. The essence of movies *IS* the story, not just the pretty pictures you see on screen, cause if you think that, you would have thought SGU was a masterpeice.

Dont get me wrong, I actually LIKE cartoons. I also get it when you make the distinction between cartoons and well-written stories which are animated. By reference to something as a "cartoon" has to do with it being animated, thats all. To me, anything animated is a "cartoon" to me. Maybe not an accurate description for anime fans, but its how I do it. For instance, Cars to me is not a cartoon. Neither was Rattatouille or any of the CGI films like those and Toy Story. However ALL fully animated films like Heavy Metal and most all anime would be "cartoons" by definition of them being animated instead of rendered. Make sense?

 

[Bluce Ree]

Oh Hey, I just noticed this



I don't hate to think of Anime as "cartoons", they are cartoons, *However*, the use of the term "Anime" is to seperate it from stuff like Tom and Jerry, Wackey racers and such. I dunno if you watch alot of Disney and or Pixar movies, but I DO know you like "Cars". Would you compare Cars and the underlying themes behind "just the fun" and seriously attempt to compare it to Scooby Doo?!?
The reason *I* compare Anime to feature films is not just what you see on screen, but the themes, tone and tenor that Anime is capable of handling. Find yourself a copy of something like the Cowboy Beebop movie and rather than just sitting there and watching it going "this is just a cartoon", listen to the storyline. The essence of movies *IS* the story, not just the pretty pictures you see on screen, cause if you think that, you would have thought SGU was a masterpeice.

Dont get me wrong, I actually LIKE cartoons. I also get it when you make the distinction between cartoons and well-written stories which are animated. By reference to something as a "cartoon" has to do with it being animated, thats all. To me, anything animated is a "cartoon" to me. Maybe not an accurate description for anime fans, but its how I do it. For instance, Cars to me is not a cartoon. Neither was Rattatouille or any of the CGI films like those and Toy Story. However ALL fully animated films like Heavy Metal and most all anime would be "cartoons" by definition of them being animated instead of rendered. Make sense?

Anime is used to describe Japanese animation, which was once referred to as Japanimation. It doesn't have anything to do with quality of story or if the cartoon is children's slapstick or an adult themed story.

There are many US made adult themed cartoons, like the Matrix and Riddick cartoons as well as some Batman feature-length cartoons to name a few. As far as I know, they're not categorized as Anime.

Anime has a very distinctive style.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Anime is used to describe Japanese animation, which was once referred to as Japanimation. It doesn't have anything to do with quality of story or if the cartoon is children's slapstick or an adult themed story.

Actually, it does. Anime/Japanimation does indeed refer to the rather distinctive style of the "drawing", but it ALSO covers content, specifically the more adult content like violence and "heavy themes" (not to the degree of say Hentai however)

There are many US made adult themed cartoons, like the Matrix and Riddick cartoons as well as some Batman feature-length cartoons to name a few. As far as I know, they're not categorized as Anime.

Quite true sir.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Dont get me wrong, I actually LIKE cartoons. I also get it when you make the distinction between cartoons and well-written stories which are animated. By reference to something as a "cartoon" has to do with it being animated, thats all. To me, anything animated is a "cartoon" to me. Maybe not an accurate description for anime fans, but its how I do it. For instance, Cars to me is not a cartoon. Neither was Rattatouille or any of the CGI films like those and Toy Story. However ALL fully animated films like Heavy Metal and most all anime would be "cartoons" by definition of them being animated instead of rendered. Make sense?

Oh, I know we are quibbling semantics here dude
However, I would be curious to know what Omni thinks of the difference between Pixar "animation" and "traditional cell animation", Not so much the obvious differences, but the "technical difference", quite simply is a cartoon a cartoon a cartoon?

 

[Bluce Ree]

Actually, it does. Anime/Japanimation does indeed refer to the rather distinctive style of the "drawing", but it ALSO covers content, specifically the more adult content like violence and "heavy themes" (not to the degree of say Hentai however)


Quite true sir.

There are tons of children cartoons that are Anime, like Pokemon, Digimon, and older ones like Sally the Witch (aka Mini Fee). I'm not sure I see any adult violence or "heavy themes" in these.

 

[shavedape]

I feel a bit guilty for having used the term "cartoon" here so let me explain what I meant in more detail. I am using the term "cartoon" to describe films that not only are heavy on CGI but that have the characters behave in such an unbelievable fashion as to make then unrealistic to the point of being "cartoonish". Remember how Shaggy and Scooby could always eat a ton of food in one sitting, like how they would swallow an entire 10' sub sandwich in one gulp? That's something that would only happen in a cartoon. If it were a movie with characters that we could relate to then A.) Scooby couldn't talk and B.) neither he nor Shaggy could eat that much food so quickly.

Or how about this example, remember the show Will & Grace? It went from being a show about 2 friends in NY that, while exaggerated, was believable, to focusing on the completely unrealistic zany antics of Jack and Karen. Those two characters acted in such a way that was cartoonish, i.e. not believable as humans go. Their actions transcended more than simple wise cracking and became so wholly unrealistic as to be just not believable at all. And even comedy characters need to be believable on some level.

This same problem occurs in many of the comic book/graphic novel adaptations out there today. We're asked to suspend our disbelief but then we're shown characters and scenarios that just aren't even close to being realistic, hence those films become "cartoons". The claim that these stories take place in an alt universe is a cop out for many reasons, not the least of which being the lack of explanation as to why physics in those worlds act differently than they do here. As it is we've all seen superhero "films" that made us groan because they were so lame (Fantastic Four anyone?).

Now, compare this to the recent Batman series of films which tries to bring a level of reality to the flicks. No they're not perfect but my point is that some of these types of films at least try to hold onto bits of believability. Of course when they do they're labeled as being "dark" -- whatever the hell that means.

At any rate, sometimes the egregious use of CGI can render a movie the distinction of being a "cartoon", like the Star Wars prequels for instance. It's not that the story didn't exist for these films (although it was a bad one to be honest) but rather that the entire set of "films" was done on green screen. Entire characters were created out of animation, and looked like it. To expect the viewer to think they're watching a "film" when the entire screen is filled with animation save for one live action human is just stupid. George Lucas sucks a bag of dicks for that, but I don't want to digress too much. Suffice to say that the term "cartoon" can be applied to films that are live action productions.

 

[Gatefan1976]

There are tons of children cartoons that are Anime, like Pokemon, Digimon, and older ones like Sally the Witch (aka Mini Fee). I'm not sure I see any adult violence or "heavy themes" in these.

View attachment 7497

True, but that is NOT Anime, at least from the definition I or a dictionary knows. I don't know what they call it to be honest. In Japan, it may well be called Anime, but as far as the "west" goes, that description isn't accurate.
Aren't semantics fun

 

[shavedape]

True, but that is NOT Anime, at least from the definition I or a dictionary knows. I don't know what they call it to be honest. In Japan, it may well be called Anime, but as far as the "west" goes, that description isn't accurate.
Aren't semantics fun

Thank God you're not anti-semantic, after all, Israel really isn't that ba-- Oh wait...never mind.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Thank God you're not anti-semantic, after all, Israel really isn't that ba-- Oh wait...never mind.

 

[SciphonicStranger]

Was the original Red Dawn even good enough to warrant a remake?

 

[Rac80]

Red Dawn had a lot of "names" before they got "bigger"...C. Thomas Howell, Swayze, Charlie Sheen, Lea Thompson, and Jennifer Grey. was it good enough for a remake...*shrugs* it was fun for a young adult to watch, but it really doesn't retain watchability!

 

[Joelist]

The original wasn't bad if you ignored the somewhat preposterous premise. Seeing the group of kids become hardened partisans and also seeing them slowly being killed off did have emotional impact and lines up with the history of partisan warfare (like WW2 for example).

That said, if you're wanting to see a film about partisans I would recommend "Defiance" starring Daniel Craig over Red Dawn. Defiance is relating a pretty amazing true story and it is gritty and well acted.

 

[SciphonicStranger]

The original wasn't bad if you ignored the somewhat preposterous premise. Seeing the group of kids become hardened partisans and also seeing them slowly being killed off did have emotional impact and lines up with the history of partisan warfare (like WW2 for example).

That said, if you're wanting to see a film about partisans I would recommend "Defiance" starring Daniel Craig over Red Dawn. Defiance is relating a pretty amazing true story and it is gritty and well acted.

I think that was the hard part for me when I first saw it. Even though war with the USSR back then was a real possibility the idea of the enemy on our soil wasn’t really plausible.

 

[Overmind One]

Red Dawn had a lot of "names" before they got "bigger"...C. Thomas Howell, Swayze, Charlie Sheen, Lea Thompson, and Jennifer Grey. was it good enough for a remake...*shrugs* it was fun for a young adult to watch, but it really doesn't retain watchability!

I think that a GREAT movie like Red Dawn is only "great" when you were living in the actual Cold War and you understood the subtle messages in the movie because you were living in those times. But it does not play well in a post Cold War world, because there is no way for a newer audience to connect with it in the same way. However the premise for the movie could have held only before things like surveillance satellites, GPS and the Internet were invented. For a long time not too long ago, war movies were all the rage. That was because there were lots of em, in Vietnam, Korea, Desert Storm, Iraq and Afghanistan, Somalia, etc. Now, nobody wants to see them. Same with westerns (what's a "western"?) .

Red Dawn does not have a context today, at least not with its original premise or anything similar. I cant think of any elements that one could use from that movie to "update". Only the (enemy) boy meets (American) girl thing, and perhaps the ceasing of hostilities for humanistic reasons could be done, but aren't those things in most every new movie these days? I very much doubt they will remake Tarzan, or try to make an "epic western" anytime soon. Red Dawn...a remake? Like, seriously????

 

[Overmind One]

Thank God you're not anti-semantic, after all, Israel really isn't that ba-- Oh wait...never mind.

 

[Joelist]

I dunno about Westerns. Westerns tend to come, go then come back again. Probably because they have a tendency to have archetypal characters and themes. For example, "Unforgiven" is a recent Western that did very well. Also "Blackthorn", "The Assassination of Jesse James" and others. Westerns seem to come and go but I suspect will always be with us.

 

[Overmind One]

I dunno about Westerns. Westerns tend to come, go then come back again. Probably because they have a tendency to have archetypal characters and themes. For example, "Unforgiven" is a recent Western that did very well. Also "Blackthorn", "The Assassination of Jesse James" and others. Westerns seem to come and go but I suspect will always be with us.

Meh, you are probably right. About "Unforgiven", it did well in the sense that it made you remember it long enough to tell me it exists (for the first time Im hearing about it). I used to love westerns like The Lone Ranger and Big Valley and Wagon Train. But at some point early on, it became astronauts and aliens instead of cowboys and indians. Also, my GI Joe had it rough under my command! I like westerns for the flair and the surroundings, but the stories of bandits and outlaws just does not connect with me. But that is just me. I know millions of people still love them.