Terra Nova

[SciphonicStranger]

I'm at least two weeks behind on this show now. How are the ratings? Will the "Cancellation Bear" take it out as expected?

 

[Stonelesscutter]

I'm at least two weeks behind on this show now. How are the ratings? Will the "Cancellation Bear" take it out as expected?

I will get a rifle and shoot that damn bear if it tries.

 

[SciphonicStranger]

I will get a rifle and shoot that damn bear if it tries.

Good for you - that damn bear is scarier than most of the dinos so far.

 

[shavedape]

Okay, I'll explain this once and only once and then I'm done with it because it's beyond stupid to even have to argue this topic. One soldier lured a raptor into the electrical pump station with the sole purpose of trapping it inside so that when the soldier to whom he owed lots of money to (gambling debts) would arrive to check the pump station he would be killed by the trapped dinosaur. That is premeditated murder. The victim was not responsible in any way, shape or form for what transpired. End of story.

 

[SciphonicStranger]

Okay, I'll explain this once and only once and then I'm done with it because it's beyond stupid to even have to argue this topic. One soldier lured a raptor into the electrical pump station with the sole purpose of trapping it inside so that when the soldier to whom he owed lots of money to (gambling debts) would arrive to check the pump station he would be killed by the trapped dinosaur. That is premeditated murder. The victim was not responsible in any way, shape or form for what transpired. End of story.

I really need to get caught up - I think they did something like that on Dukes of Hazard...

 

[Graybrew1]

So if someone enters the lion cage at the zoo and gets eaten the zookeepers would be murderers.

Actually in my country yes...... so lame but you have to sign a waiver to enter a zoo area. This is to prevent you from suing the zoo, because it has been done to other zoos. All this does is cost more money to run the zoo and hurt the animals.

 

[Stonelesscutter]

Okay, I'll explain this once and only once and then I'm done with it because it's beyond stupid to even have to argue this topic. One soldier lured a raptor into the electrical pump station with the sole purpose of trapping it inside so that when the soldier to whom he owed lots of money to (gambling debts) would arrive to check the pump station he would be killed by the trapped dinosaur. That is premeditated murder. The victim was not responsible in any way, shape or form for what transpired. End of story.

My dear Ape. I knew fishy stuff was going on but I didn't know the American judicial system was THAT fudged up. Regarding this example there could in no way be argued a case for murder in any country with a sensible court. Certainly not a premeditated one. Even manslaughter would be difficult to prove. So somebody trapped a dino in a room. It could have simply run away when the door was opened. It could have snapped at the person opening the door without having injured him. It could have attacked the person opening the door injuring him but not killing him. The door could have been opened by someone other than the intended victim. The dino could have died before the door was ever opened. So there wasn't exactly a foolproof plan in place that would lead to someone dying.

The guy that opened the door was a trained soldier carrying a big gun. How come he didn't fire any shots? Because he was a lousy soldier, that's why. He was on hostile grounds so he had to be on edge. There was indication of something fishy going on. He failed to recognise that and he failed in general. Somehow he was under the impression that there would be some person inside that room. Why would there be a person inside it? If there would be, how come that wouldn't be known to him and the people on the base? Is everybody just freewheeling around there? How come someone gets send out alone in the wilderness anyway? I think there were some management issues there. I guess according to the court the commander of the base would be a conspirator to murder because of his negligence to provide a backup for this person.

All the evidence in the "case" was very circumstantial at best. If they had not physically beaten a confession out of the guy they would have known exactly nothing. Ofcourse torturing someone for a confession is a perfectly acceptable tradition in court. So the guy stole a ledger from a bar. What does that prove? Did they have a search warrent to acquire this ledger from the guy? Nothing and nope.

I'd like to see you try to try that guy in court. I bet you'd have a pretty hard time making a case that would lead to a conviction. Now an animal rights association on the other hand might have a case if they wanted to sue the guy that trapped that poor dino inside that tiny room with no means of escape.

 

[Overmind One]

I really need to get caught up - I think they did something like that on Dukes of Hazard...

I told myself that last week, but I just cant bring myself to download/watch any more of this show. Perhaps I will catch up on a rewatch marathon some weekend soon?

 

[Bluce Ree]

My dear Ape. I knew fishy stuff was going on but I didn't know the American judicial system was THAT fudged up. Regarding this example there could in no way be argued a case for murder in any country with a sensible court. Certainly not a premeditated one. Even manslaughter would be difficult to prove. So somebody trapped a dino in a room. It could have simply run away when the door was opened. It could have snapped at the person opening the door without having injured him. It could have attacked the person opening the door injuring him but not killing him. The door could have been opened by someone other than the intended victim. The dino could have died before the door was ever opened. So there wasn't exactly a foolproof plan in place that would lead to someone dying.

The guy that opened the door was a trained soldier carrying a big gun. How come he didn't fire any shots? Because he was a lousy soldier, that's why. He was on hostile grounds so he had to be on edge. There was indication of something fishy going on. He failed to recognise that and he failed in general. Somehow he was under the impression that there would be some person inside that room. Why would there be a person inside it? If there would be, how come that wouldn't be known to him and the people on the base? Is everybody just freewheeling around there? How come someone gets send out alone in the wilderness anyway? I think there were some management issues there. I guess according to the court the commander of the base would be a conspirator to murder because of his negligence to provide a backup for this person.

All the evidence in the "case" was very circumstantial at best. If they had not physically beaten a confession out of the guy they would have known exactly nothing. Ofcourse torturing someone for a confession is a perfectly acceptable tradition in court. So the guy stole a ledger from a bar. What does that prove? Did they have a search warrent to acquire this ledger from the guy? Nothing and nope.

I'd like to see you try to try that guy in court. I bet you'd have a pretty hard time making a case that would lead to a conviction. Now an animal rights association on the other hand might have a case if they wanted to sue the guy that trapped that poor dino inside that tiny room with no means of escape.

If I put a ravenous tiger in your bathroom before you get up in the morning then you get killed and eaten by that tiger going for your morning weewee, have I done anything wrong?

How about if I put a giant gun next to your bed with a post-it saying, "take this to the bathroom with you"? Does that mean you were neglectful and I'm still off the hook?

 

[Rac80]

@stoneless-- in the USA, it would be like someone hiring a contract killing...the person hiring the killer is equally guilty of murder and there are more then a few on death row who hired one person to kill another! There is a case where someone set something like this up with a wild animal and was charged and found guilty of premeditated murder, but I'll have to look up the case law. It was likened to contract killings.

 

[EvilSpaceAlien]

My dear Ape. I knew fishy stuff was going on but I didn't know the American judicial system was THAT fudged up. Regarding this example there could in no way be argued a case for murder in any country with a sensible court. Certainly not a premeditated one. Even manslaughter would be difficult to prove.

If someone traps a dangerous beast in room with the specific intention to have the beast kill the next person who enters the room, that is definitely murder (or manslaughter). Even if they can't prove that the guy who trapped the thing there did it with the specific intent to have the other guy killed, he'd still probably end up guilty of involuntary manslaughter because of criminal negligence, as long as they can prove that it was he who trapped that thing in there.

 

[Stonelesscutter]

If I put a ravenous tiger in your bathroom before you get up in the morning then you get killed and eaten by that tiger going for your morning weewee, have I done anything wrong?

I absolutely adore tigers! Could I keep it as a pet? Somewhere I have a picture of myself with a tiger on my lap. Okay, admittedly, it wasn't fully grown yet. But it was decently sized. Anyway. I'm not living in a place where it's wild and there's dangerous creatures all around. Nevertheless I bet I'd still have the intelligence and responsiveness to shut the door again in time.

How about if I put a giant gun next to your bed with a post-it saying, "take this to the bathroom with you"? Does that mean you were neglectful and I'm still off the hook?

That would be a telltale sign that there's something really weird going on so I don't think that would work.

@stoneless-- in the USA, it would be like someone hiring a contract killing...the person hiring the killer is equally guilty of murder and there are more then a few on death row who hired one person to kill another! There is a case where someone set something like this up with a wild animal and was charged and found guilty of premeditated murder, but I'll have to look up the case law. It was likened to contract killings.

Well if you find it I'd like to hear how that went down. In a short short synopsis that is. I hate reading lots of text.

If someone traps a dangerous beast in room with the specific intention to have the beast kill the next person who enters the room, that is definitely murder (or manslaughter). Even if they can't prove that the guy who trapped the thing there did it with the specific intent to have the other guy killed, he'd still probably end up guilty of involuntary manslaughter because of criminal negligence, as long as they can prove that it was he who trapped that thing in there.

There was no trial in this ep. There wasn't even really an investigation. It was a bit of fingerpointing and a guy being tortured till he confessed. Which by the way he did quite easily. He must not have been much of a hardened soldier. If there had been an actual investigation leading to an actual trial I bet there would have been no conviction based on what evidence could be presented. All very circumstantial.

 

[Stonelesscutter]

Okay, new case. Say somebody put a whole bunch of bananas in a room and somebody wanted to take one of those. But when he did he got bitten by a very poisonous spider that was hidden between the bananas. Now the guy who put the bananas there did not know about the spider. The guy who got bitten died because he couldn't get to a hospital quick enough. Is there reason for a murder case here?

 

[Bluce Ree]

I absolutely adore tigers! Could I keep it as a pet? Somewhere I have a picture of myself with a tiger on my lap. Okay, admittedly, it wasn't fully grown yet. But it was decently sized. Anyway. I'm not living in a place where it's wild and there's dangerous creatures all around. Nevertheless I bet I'd still have the intelligence and responsiveness to shut the door again in time.



That would be a telltale sign that there's something really weird going on so I don't think that would work.



Well if you find it I'd like to hear how that went down. In a short short synopsis that is. I hate reading lots of text.

[...]

You completely skirted the issue by making it about fooling you. The question wasn't "can i fool you into ..." but rather if you were killed due to the circumstances I created above.

 

[Stonelesscutter]

You completely skirted the issue by making it about fooling you. The question wasn't "can i fool you into ..." but rather if you were killed due to the circumstances I created above.

Yes you would have done something wrong but I don't think I'd call it murder. You'd have been breaking and entering. I guess manslaughter would be appropriate.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Okay, new case. Say somebody put a whole bunch of bananas in a room and somebody wanted to take one of those. But when he did he got bitten by a very poisonous spider that was hidden between the bananas. Now the guy who put the bananas there did not know about the spider. The guy who got bitten died because he couldn't get to a hospital quick enough. Is there reason for a murder case here?

They might press charges in any country even though they may not stick. Does he import these bananas? Is he aware that poisonous spiders may be stowaways on bananas from that country? Has he ever encountered and removed said spiders from bananas he imported?

If a restaurant serves a salad and you get e-coli, would they be held responsible?

 

[Bluce Ree]

Yes you would have done something wrong but I don't think I'd call it murder. You'd have been breaking and entering. I guess manslaughter would be appropriate.

There ya go!

They might try for murder and only get man slaughter.

 

[shavedape]

Some of the arguments in this thread are more dense than a neutron star.

 

[Stonelesscutter]

They might press charges in any country even though they may not stick. Does he import these bananas? Is he aware that poisonous spiders may be stowaways on bananas from that country? Has he ever encountered and removed said spiders from bananas he imported?

No he didn't import them. He just bought them at a market.

 

[Stonelesscutter]

Some of the arguments in this thread are more dense than a neutron star.

Good thing you like Density.