Syfy answers GW's bogus "open letter"

Mr. A

Super Moderator +
In what he calls "An open letter to Stargate Fans", Craig Engler, executive VP takes the time to answer many of the points SGU shills from GateWorld who are angry at the cancelation of the show have been throwing against the network since December.

This is a very interesting read:

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An Open Letter to Stargate Fans From Syfy
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Thursday - May 12, 2011

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by Craig Engler


From the Editor:
With the end of Stargate Universe on Syfy this week, fans of the show are understandably upset. Why was the show cancelled? Did the move from Friday nights do it more harm than good? Today we welcome a guest post from Craig Engler, Senior Vice President and General Manager of Syfy Digital. Our thanks to Craig for taking the time to respond to some of the concerns coming from Stargate fans, and to explain the network’s decision-making process.

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An Open Letter to Stargate Fans From Syfy
There’s been a lot written about Stargate Universe and Syfy in the weeks leading up to SGU‘s recent finale, and a lot of questions and concerns directed at Syfy about how we handled the series. I wanted to take some time to address the issues that have come up and thought GateWorld, which has been a huge supporter of the entire Stargate franchise, would be a good place to do it. So thanks to them for giving me the space here, and thanks to you for taking the time to read this.

When MGM decided to bring
Stargate Atlantis to an end after five seasons, they did so knowing they’d transition to a new show in the franchise, Stargate Universe. SGU was a bold new take on Stargate that Brad Wright and Robert Cooper had had in mind for a long time, and one that we’d discussed with them off and on. It first came to us as a pitch many years ago.

Because
Stargate SG-1 and had performed so well for us in the past, we felt confident about SGU and committed to a two-season deal for it, as long as the show met certain milestones along the way. Two-season deals are rare in the TV world because they tie up a huge amount of investment (both time and money), but our great track record with MGM and Stargate made this seem like as much of a sure thing as you’ll get in the TV business. That means before any footage was shot or any actors were hired, we knew there’d be 40 episodes.

The show quickly moved forward and officially launched on October 2, 2009. The debut was watched by a good if not spectacular 2,779,000 viewers. To give that some perspective,
Stargate Atlantis debuted with over 4 million viewers, so SGU was more than 25% below that. On the plus side, SGU actually grew in week 2 to just about 3 million viewers before falling into the 2.6 million range where it seemed like it was going to settle. That’s a fairly typical pattern for a new series, and at this point the show was doing okay.

In week six viewers dropped to 2.3 million, or 20% off the season high. It’s not unusual for a show to fluctuate a bit, so as long as it bounced back this wouldn’t be too much of a concern. There was indeed a bit of a recovery the next week, but that was followed by another small drop. Then viewership took a further dip to 1,961,000, or 33% down from the season high. Obviously there was concern at this point, but we were headed into the hiatus and shows often see a bump after a break (contrary to popular belief).


Coming back from hiatus the show in fact grew modestly to 2,088,000 viewers and then added more viewers the next week, hitting 2,153,000. It looked like we were regaining momentum. Unfortunately things stalled there and for the next two months
SGU hovered between 2,116,000 and a low of 1,708,000 viewers, below where we could sustain it. So despite the brief post-hiatus bump, after two episodes it settled in at a lower number and we ended up averaging 1,982,000 viewers for season 1.5.

With untenably low numbers and no sign of growth on Fridays where it had now lost 1/3 of its initial audience, we decided to move
SGU for its second season. We’d had tremendous success on Tuesday’s with our breakout hit Warehouse 13, so we paired SGU with Caprica and moved them to Tuesdays, hoping to introduce both shows to a new audience. As you probably know by now the downward trend continued and ultimately we weren’t able to continue either series.

We moved the final 10 episodes of
SGU to Monday nights where we’d just had success with a new show called Being Human, but the ratings remained flat. SGU did finish out its run with a nice spike for the finale, which is something else you also typically see with TV shows (it’s called the “terminal spike” in ratings parlance).

What you see above is simply Syfy and MGM trying to make a great new
Stargate series, seeing some initial success, then when it began to struggle, seeing attempts to find a way to keep it going. You’ve probably read numerous rumors to the contrary. I’ll look at the most prevalent:

The erratic scheduling killed SGU:

We started the show on Fridays where we’ve had the most success and where it initially did well, and we left it there until it started struggling. When it was clear the show had fallen to unsustainable levels and would not survive on Fridays, only then did we move it to the night where our highest rated show of all time had recently aired.

The hiatus killed SGU:
As you can see from the ratings above, the biggest drop in viewers came before the hiatus, not after. In fact,
SGU actually grew around 10% after the hiatus between season 1.0 and 1.5 in its first two episodes back.

If you’d left it on Friday nights, it would have done well:

When left on Friday nights SGU lost 1/3 of its audience and dropped to consistently unsustainable ratings levels. The only hope of keeping it was to move it to another night where new viewers could find it.

You canceled SGU because you hate science fiction:

If we didn’t like science fiction we simply wouldn’t have made SGU. It’s because we like science fiction that we tried it. Even though SGU was ultimately unsuccessful, we don’t regret trying it. Science fiction shows are the backbone and lifeblood of our network, and we have many in development. Later this year we’ll be debuting Alphas, the Battlestar Galactica: Blood & Chrome pilot is being worked on as you read this, the movie Red Faction starring Stargate Universe‘s Brian Jacob Smith will air next month, 5 of our original dramas will return with new seasons or new episodes this year, and we’re working on many more behind the scenes.

You never supported SGU:

There is literally no one other than MGM who supported it more than we did. We were the only network who gave the show a try and the only ones who committed to making and airing 40 episodes before a script had been written. We invested tens of millions of dollars and thousands of hours of work over many years making and supporting the show.

You canceled SGU in order to make wrestling:

We would have happily kept making SGU regardless of anything else on our schedule if the ratings were sustainable. We don’t discontinue successful shows to make room for other shows … no network does because no network has a full roster of successful series. SGU was judged solely on its own ratings.

You don’t like Stargate:

We love Stargate. Combined we’ve made 12 seasons of 3 separate series and helped support two SG-1 films. It’s been an amazing ride and we’re incredibly proud of the cast and crew of all the shows, and thankful to all the viewers who watched.


Note:
The ratings I used above are Live +7 numbers, or the total number of viewers who watched the show live and during the following 7 days via DVR. Although advertisers buy based on just the 18-49 segment of these numbers and thus the 18-49 ratings would be much smaller, I’m using L7 numbers here for convenience as they represent the total audience. The % drops and lows of the 18-49 numbers would be even more significant (i.e. worse) than what the L7s show, but not so much that it’s worth doing all the math for.


From Gateworld: http://www.gateworld.net/news/2011/05/an-open-letter-to-stargate-fans-from-syfy/
 

shavedape

Well Known GateFan
Because Stargate SG-1 and had performed so well for us in the past, we felt confident about SGU and committed to a two-season deal for it, as long as the show met certain milestones along the way. Two-season deals are rare in the TV world because they tie up a huge amount of investment (both time and money), but our great track record with MGM and Stargate made this seem like as much of a sure thing as you’ll get in the TV business. That means before any footage was shot or any actors were hired, we knew there’d be 40 episodes.

So what were these "certain milestones" that SGU had to meet? Ratings couldn't have been a factor as the show ran the full 40 episodes agreed upon.

Also, he's a bit generous with his ratings figures using Live+7 which makes it look better. Do advertisers really care about those numbers as much as they care about the first airing Live number?

As it is, I don't have a huge problem with this "letter" from Engler. He seems to think there's a bigger problem with hate for SyFy than there really is. Sure there are issues with the network but the whining from a smattering of drama queens at a questionable site is hardly worth addressing.

And didn't JM say that they never had a 2 season deal? Hmm, interesting...
 

YoshiKart64

Well Known GateFan
So what were these "certain milestones" that SGU had to meet? Ratings couldn't have been a factor as the show ran the full 40 episodes agreed upon.

Also, he's a bit generous with his ratings figures using Live+7 which makes it look better. Do advertisers really care about those numbers as much as they care about the first airing Live number?

As it is, I don't have a huge problem with this "letter" from Engler. He seems to think there's a bigger problem with hate for SyFy than there really is. Sure there are issues with the network but the whining from a smattering of drama queens at a questionable site is hardly worth addressing.

And didn't JM say that they never had a 2 season deal? Hmm, interesting...

The milestone was a ratings average based on Season 1.0.

JM claimed that Season 2 was never a certainty, which is technically true, but realistically the show would have to bomb out the gate not to get a decent average.

As the bolded part - isn't that what the SGA fans were perceived as when it got cancelled? I think they've realised its best to keep fans happy, even if that means explaining why unlikeable decisions had to be made.
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
the only numbers Advertisers really care about are the C3 numbers, but we rarely see them.
By Using L+7 numbers however, you can see that at least for S1.5, the average was above 2 mill, which may have been the target they were hoping for, even if it dropped lower for an ep or two, it can be justified. (TBH, I think he was using L+7 figures to soften the blow somewhat)

The "deal", from what I can determine is "perform better than the SGA finale on average and you get season 2" A stupid deal in hindsight, yet it highlights the position of Syfy giving SGU every chance it possibly could have. It is a "spin article" to be sure, but no where near as bad as it could have been, Craig may have done a few doughnuts sure, but the GW letters were more like a carousel.
 
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Stonelesscutter

Guest
I don't know how that letter looks when the site is set to other themes but on the Sanctuary theme those blue letters really really suck. It's pretty much unreadable. Perhaps a change in fontcolor would be prudent if we can find one that suits all themes.
 

shavedape

Well Known GateFan
The milestone was a ratings average based on Season 1.0.

How do you know this is the formula they used?

JM claimed that Season 2 was never a certainty, which is technically true, but realistically the show would have to bomb out the gate not to get a decent average.
Well that's my point, these conditional "milestones" were never really a factor. The fix was in so to speak. So it was disingenuous for JM (or others) to imply that there was a knife at their throat from the start of the 40 episode run. There wasn't. You only see the show attempt to change when they realized they no longer had a guarantee because the 40 eps were almost up.

As the bolded part - isn't that what the SGA fans were perceived as when it got cancelled? I think they've realised its best to keep fans happy, even if that means explaining why unlikeable decisions had to be made.
Like I said, Engler seems to think there is more hatred for SyFy than there really is. Back when SGA ended things hadn't eroded programming-wise to the point they have now. So yes, there are issues with SyFy which he's smart to address, but overall I don't think there's a mass movement away from the channel. Sure some people will throw a hissy fit and promise to never watch SyFy again, but in time if a show appeals to their interests they'll tune in and watch it on that channel. Same thing that happened with this site. There were people who said they didn't want to be part of this place but in the end they wound up here anyway.

After all, in life one goes where their interests lie. ;)
 

Mr. A

Super Moderator +
Also, he's a bit generous with his ratings figures using Live+7 which makes it look better. Do advertisers really care about those numbers as much as they care about the first airing Live number?
Shavedape and GF'76, you are right that he was generous in using L+7 figures. However, as you probably realize, that is not the whole issue and "a bit" isn't true.
The drop in ratings from Live figures (not even L+3) is dramatically higher than when calculating in on the L+7. The math is easy.

For example:
L+7 - 3.0 million down to 2.0 million = 33% less
L+3 - 2.5 million down to 1.5 million = 40% less
L (C3) - 2.0 million down to 1.0 million = 50% less

Or for the cancelation ratings:
L+7 - 3.0 million down to 1.5 million = 50% less
L+3 - 2.5 million down to 1.0 million = 60% less
L (C3) - 2.0 million down to 0.5 million = 75% less

So he was being VERY generous when showing the drop in ratings using L+7 figures when ad buyers look mostly at Live figures.

And didn't JM say that they never had a 2 season deal? Hmm, interesting...
More interestingly, he said it three times. In case you missed it at the end:
"We were the only network who gave the show a try and the only ones who committed to making and airing 40 episodes before a script had been written."

I don't know how that letter looks when the site is set to other themes but on the Sanctuary theme those blue letters really really suck. It's pretty much unreadable. Perhaps a change in font color would be prudent if we can find one that suits all themes.
Sure, wait just a minute while I try out all different themes. :P

The milestone was a ratings average based on Season 1.0.

JM claimed that Season 2 was never a certainty, which is technically true, but realistically the show would have to bomb out the gate not to get a decent average.
Exactly!
 
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Graybrew1

Guest
My only real issue with Syfy anymore, is that did not advertise the (night)moves enough and they did not advertise the show enough.
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
My only real issue with Syfy anymore, is that did not advertise the (night)moves enough and they did not advertise the show enough.

Do you watch Syfy alot GB, or only when shows you like are on?
 
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Graybrew1

Guest
Do you watch Syfy alot GB, or only when shows you like are on?

I watch/watched it a decent amount. I record all the old SG/ST stuff, Being Human, Warehouse 13,Caprica, Eureka,SGU, Sanctuary, Merlin, Haven,Dead like me, Moonlighting.

I understand your point. But I watch it quite a bit. And I have seen a ton of commercials for Ghost Hunters, Face Off, Sanctuary, and Being Human.

But it was just IMHO.
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
I watch/watched it a decent amount. I record all the old SG/ST stuff, Being Human, Warehouse 13,Caprica, Eureka,SGU, Sanctuary, Merlin, Haven,Dead like me, Moonlighting.

I understand your point. But I watch it quite a bit. And I have seen a ton of commercials for Ghost Hunters, Face Off, Sanctuary, and Being Human.

But it was just IMHO.

Fair enough, advertising is something I cannot comment on as not watching Syfy, I just don't know, that was more curiosity than anything else
 

Mr. A

Super Moderator +
Syfy was very mild in this letter and addressed the "wrestling issue" only shortly. Craig didn't even go into the issue of Nielsen ratings (a biggie for GW shills) or of how much money Syfy was losing or has lost altogether in this whole affair. So I wouldn't call it a 'slap in the face' of GW, just a small clarification rebuke.

But more interesting than that, if one looks at the answers Craig gives, it is obvious that Syfy is much nearer to the answers and reasons we had in our related poll and reactions to Darren's letter than the comments posted beneath the letter and on GW's forums, where Darren was basically showered with praise and commended for his deep insights and revealing truths. Sure, GW and their posters like KEK (aka Jenks) will claim Darren is more informed and truthful than Craig, just like Mallozzi, but the truth is Syfy not only is in the better position to verify these facts but makes a much more coherent argument.
So guess which "fansite" was validated by Syfy's letter to "Stargate fans"? ;)
 

shavedape

Well Known GateFan
Fair enough, advertising is something I cannot comment on as not watching Syfy, I just don't know, that was more curiosity than anything else

She's right in that they don't advertise every show the same amount. The Sanctuary move to Mondays happened with very little advertising, which was weird. And with SGU there were times they didn't advertise it much but then as it neared the end I saw a ton of commercials for it, go figure. I also saw a ton of commercials for Marcels Quantum Kitchen, a show that I didn't watch.
 

Mr. A

Super Moderator +
My only real issue with Syfy anymore, is that did not advertise the (night)moves enough and they did not advertise the show enough.

I watch/watched it a decent amount. I record all the old SG/ST stuff, Being Human, Warehouse 13,Caprica, Eureka,SGU, Sanctuary, Merlin, Haven,Dead like me, Moonlighting.

I understand your point. But I watch it quite a bit. And I have seen a ton of commercials for Ghost Hunters, Face Off, Sanctuary, and Being Human.

But it was just IMHO.
That's very interesting. I can't comment on it either, but Briangate has talked a lot about this at Syfy.com and at GW. Hopefully he can give his view on it.
But even assuming it were true, it is ludicrous to claim the reason for it is that Syfy (in a schizophrenic move) doesn't want many people watching its show so it can lose money - or kill SGU - on purpose. Craig shouldn't even have had to address that embarrassing claim by GW 'fans'. The most one could accuse them of would be incompetence.
 
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Graybrew1

Guest
That's very interesting. I can't comment on it either, but Briangate has talked a lot about this at Syfy.com and at GW. Hopefully he can give his view on it.
But even assuming it were true, it is ludicrous to claim the reason for it is that Syfy (in a schizophrenic move) doesn't want many people watching its show so it can lose money - or kill SGU - on purpose. Craig shouldn't even have had to address that embarrassing claim by GW 'fans'. The most one could accuse them of would be incompetence.

Yeah, I don't claim to think they did it on purpose(anymore, but that is going way back :rolleyes:) but I still feel that it is true that they did not advertise it enough. I no longer find fault with the decision to move the night. And I can't really think of anything else I could have an issue with them about.

In general, I am not happy with their decision to re-imagine themselves out of the niche type to the broadened SYFY, but I now understand that it was a valid business decision to do it. I am content to accept that they do plan to include Scifi as one of the types of shows included on this broadened version. But I am also totally willing to find it on any other networks that are willing to provide it to me as well....such as BBC, CW, FOX... whoever.

So, I don't blame them, but maybe not quite as loyal to them as I used to be. :icon_e_wink:
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
Am I the only one who caught this utter bullshit?

You canceled SGU in order to make wrestling:
We would have happily kept making SGU regardless of anything else on our schedule if the ratings were sustainable. We don’t discontinue successful shows to make room for other shows … no network does because no network has a full roster of successful series. SGU was judged solely on its own ratings.

Didn't SGA, which had "sustainably high" ratings, using their own criteria set forth in Craig's open letter above, get cancelled to make room for SGU?
 

Mr. A

Super Moderator +
No bullshit!

Am I the only one who caught this utter bullshit?

Didn't SGA, which had "sustainably high" ratings, using their own criteria set forth in Craig's open letter above, get cancelled to make room for SGU?
Yes, to make room WITH THE PRODUCERS for SGU, not at Syfy. Syfy was pefectly happy to run both series as they did with SG1 + SGA. This has been stated many times.
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
Yes, to make room WITH THE PRODUCERS for SGU, not at Syfy. Syfy was pefectly happy to run both series as they did with SG1 + SGA. This has been stated many times.

The producers have run two shows simultaneously before. If Syfy really wanted to keep both running at the same time, MGM could have made that happen. Money talks, brother, and MGM writes the checks. If Syfy was willing to pay for both series, MGM would have obliged.
 

Mr. A

Super Moderator +
Another thing we have been insisting on for a very long time and this article has confirmed:

"When MGM decided to bring Stargate Atlantis to an end after five seasons, they did so knowing they’d transition to a new show in the franchise, Stargate Universe. SGU was a bold new take on Stargate that Brad Wright and Robert Cooper had had in mind for a long time, and one that we’d discussed with them off and on."

So, it wasn't Syfy that cancelled SGA like Brad Wright still likes to claim in his interviews and pseudo-apologies. Syfy is clearly staing that the decision came from MGM, and they probably just aren't distinguishing between "MGM the studio" and "MGM the producers". So yes, once again we have it here. And I want to see Brad Wright try to claim Craig Engler is lying here or Darren do the same to protect his buddies. :icon_lol:
 
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