Star Trek Discovery SUCKS.

[Overmind One]

Basically the last half of the season was a giant retcon exercise to try to create at least a minimal tie in to actual Trek. Note that they pardoned Burnham and she is officially Starfleet again - not a word about who caused the war in the first place...

And the war is just wrapped up in 30 minutes in the most contrived manner possible.

I will say that I did like their version of 1701. It was refreshing to see something that was at least acceptable. Its the ONLY ship I have seen in Discovery that I liked. But they only showed the exterior and not the interior. They WILL mess that up. The main reason we are not getting Star Trek is because these writers and producers they are using DO NOT KNOW how to do Trek. They have no idea how the interiors should look.

 

[PussyGalore]

This whole show trajectory reminds me of SGU so much. They filmed the first season and put it in the can before airing it for critics and fans. They were hush hush about details until the premiere. When the premiere came, the fans threw pies and tomatoes and rotten fruit and feces at it. The spin doctors and shills were hired, the media collaborators were paid and published glowing reviews, and that was a fail. Then the numbers started coming in (CBS gets to hide theirs), proving that the show was a fail. They spun up the pre-arranged Season 2 as a "renewal", and finally they desperately tried to rework the second season to appease the now absent fanbase, but it was too little, too late. Discovery is worse because of the money it cost. Season 2 will probably be better than Season 1 (of this show), but they cannot do the kind of MASSIVE changes they would need to do in order to make it fit into canon. Besides that, they have to go back and undo the existence of the spore drive, they have to explain the Klingons and redo the ships and uniforms and even the technology.

It's a goner.

View attachment 33924

Just like SGU they won't be able to redeem nasty, unappealing characters. Rewatching SGU on COMET TV reminded me just how much of a turn-off Dr. Rush was. He's an A-hole from the very first episode and he remained an A-hole well into the show. I honestly don't understand how the writers expected us viewers to find him appealing. Was he supposed to be an antagonist or protagonist? Mixing the two doesn't work when it comes to a franchise based upon clearly defined character archetypes (good guys/bad guys).

(I will never forget how Rush completely dismissed the importance of the seeder ship and how the stargates were placed on each planet, something SG fans had never seen explained before and would like to have had explored more. A genuine scientist would have been interested in that process. Instead Rush made a snarky, angry comment and moved on. Dude was always angry, always a douche. Is it any wonder he was unlikable? Is it any wonder characters like Berman and Lorca are unappealing? What kind of writer thinks that these characters are actually appealing? That makes no sense. You have to be a deluded fool to think such characters are going to be relateable to the average viewer.)

The rest of the SGU characters (and their individual stories) were uninteresting and/or outright unappealing. Dr. Wray the shrill, angry token lesbian? No thanks. Commander Young the alcoholic, spineless whiner who couldn't command the Mens room at a McDonalds? No thanks. Chloe the boring, cliche vapid slut? No thanks. The whole cast of characters was unappealing. STD shares that same problem with their characters.

Just like the way Stargate fans walked away from SGU Star Trek fans have walked away from STD. Getting them to return seems highly unlikely. There is no rewind in life. The producers can't go back and erase the first season of this lousy show. It exists and it's left a bad taste in everyone's mouths. Expecting them to return is nothing but a desperate fantasy.

Let's think about this in a way that we all can relate to: Imagine there was a pizza place that has been in existence since the 1960's. It's a local favorite that generations of people grew up loving because the pizza they made was exceptionally good. The business enjoyed a large, loyal following for decades. Fast forward to 2018. The pizza joint is under new management. They make changes in the pizza recipe -- radical changes. The taste and style is completely altered and is unrecognizable from the original pizza that made the restaurant famous to begin with. Loyal patrons stop by for a pizza but they find the change in recipe to be completely unappealing. It doesn't taste or look anything like the pizza they have known for years. Some loyal patrons complain (but are ignored by the new management) while other loyal patrons simply leave without complaining; both groups never to return. The business begins to tank. Management finally has no choice but to accept reality. They desperately announce that they are returning to using the original pizza recipe. It's too little, too late. The loyal patrons don't return and the business closes with the management pointing accusing fingers at everyone and everything other than themselves for the demise of the restaurant. The end.

That's pretty much what we're seeing with STD. Star Trek fans simply are not going to return to this show. And casual viewers aren't going to be attracted to it because quite honestly the first season is an unappealing mess. Again, the first season can't be erased and no amount of retconning will fix it and turn it into a ratings success. It's just not going to happen.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

You might be right, though you're not in a position to know what casual viewers would on average think of the show. They probably won't see flaws we see.

 

[PussyGalore]

You might be right, though you're not in a position to know what casual viewers would on average think of the show. They probably won't see flaws we see.

My thinking is that the average viewer (not hard core Trek fans) will not be willing to invest time into figuring out what the hell is happening in that convoluted story. Imagine you don't know that much about ST and you tune into the show. Are you going to find yourself attracted to protagonists that are unethical and immoral? Of course some people might think this type of writing is "complex" and "nuanced" but the average person is simply going to see these characters as unheroic and unlikable. It's basic math.

In all the previous ST series the characters have been clearly defined by type (good guy or bad guy with minor variations like bad guy with a heart of gold, etc.). It didn't take long for first time viewers of those shows to figure out who to like and who to dislike. That isn't the case with STD. And no amount of "fixing" the un-likability of the so-called protagonists is going to help.

Look, the reason that adventure shows and movies become successful is because they employ the basic template of good vs. bad. Everyone can understand this point, that's why it's such a successful way to tell stories. Look at the original Star Wars movie. The simplistic theme of good vs. evil was very blatant and that contributed heavily to its success. The same template can be applied to all the Star Trek series save the latest one, STD. The average viewer may be average, but that' doesn't mean they are stupid. They know when characters are likable and when they are not.

And quite honestly I don't think having a fairy godmother appear to Michael Berman to give her a makeover (replete with dancing mice who know how to sew a ball gown, bippity bobbity boo) and turn her all sparkly and nice is going to fly with even the most casual of viewers. Of course I could be wrong but it's highly unlikely in this case. Fixing a show that's so heavily flawed almost never works. You know this dude, you know this.

 

[PussyGalore]

 

[Lord Ba'al]

People seem to like reality shows. Why wouldn't they like STD?

 

[PussyGalore]

People seem to like reality shows. Why wouldn't they like STD?

Now you're just trollin'.

Dude, Star Trek isn't a reality show, it's a fictional drama with a well established story canon and style. And yes, reality shows are fictional dramas also, but their level of writing and production has always been notoriously bad. People expect more from the ST brand.

 

[Overmind One]

And quite honestly I don't think having a fairy godmother appear to Michael Berman to give her a makeover (replete with dancing mice who know how to sew a ball gown, bippity bobbity boo) and turn her all sparkly and nice is going to fly with even the most casual of viewers.

 

[Overmind One]

Just like SGU they won't be able to redeem nasty, unappealing characters. Rewatching SGU on COMET TV reminded me just how much of a turn-off Dr. Rush was. He's an A-hole from the very first episode and he remained an A-hole well into the show. I honestly don't understand how the writers expected us viewers to find him appealing. Was he supposed to be an antagonist or protagonist? Mixing the two doesn't work when it comes to a franchise based upon clearly defined character archetypes (good guys/bad guys).

(I will never forget how Rush completely dismissed the importance of the seeder ship and how the stargates were placed on each planet, something SG fans had never seen explained before and would like to have had explored more. A genuine scientist would have been interested in that process. Instead Rush made a snarky, angry comment and moved on. Dude was always angry, always a douche. Is it any wonder he was unlikable? Is it any wonder characters like Berman and Lorca are unappealing? What kind of writer thinks that these characters are actually appealing? That makes no sense. You have to be a deluded fool to think such characters are going to be relateable to the average viewer.)

The rest of the SGU characters (and their individual stories) were uninteresting and/or outright unappealing. Dr. Wray the shrill, angry token lesbian? No thanks. Commander Young the alcoholic, spineless whiner who couldn't command the Mens room at a McDonalds? No thanks. Chloe the boring, cliche vapid slut? No thanks. The whole cast of characters was unappealing. STD shares that same problem with their characters.

Just like the way Stargate fans walked away from SGU Star Trek fans have walked away from STD. Getting them to return seems highly unlikely. There is no rewind in life. The producers can't go back and erase the first season of this lousy show. It exists and it's left a bad taste in everyone's mouths. Expecting them to return is nothing but a desperate fantasy.

Let's think about this in a way that we all can relate to: Imagine there was a pizza place that has been in existence since the 1960's. It's a local favorite that generations of people grew up loving because the pizza they made was exceptionally good. The business enjoyed a large, loyal following for decades. Fast forward to 2018. The pizza joint is under new management. They make changes in the pizza recipe -- radical changes. The taste and style is completely altered and is unrecognizable from the original pizza that made the restaurant famous to begin with. Loyal patrons stop by for a pizza but they find the change in recipe to be completely unappealing. It doesn't taste or look anything like the pizza they have known for years. Some loyal patrons complain (but are ignored by the new management) while other loyal patrons simply leave without complaining; both groups never to return. The business begins to tank. Management finally has no choice but to accept reality. They desperately announce that they are returning to using the original pizza recipe. It's too little, too late. The loyal patrons don't return and the business closes with the management pointing accusing fingers at everyone and everything other than themselves for the demise of the restaurant. The end.

That's pretty much what we're seeing with STD. Star Trek fans simply are not going to return to this show. And casual viewers aren't going to be attracted to it because quite honestly the first season is an unappealing mess. Again, the first season can't be erased and no amount of retconning will fix it and turn it into a ratings success. It's just not going to happen.

Loved the pizza analogy, and you nailed this right on the head. Our little group is not the only group who saw from the beginning that this was going to be a fail after a mere single episode (even though we got two for free). We challenged the shills and the spin and saw through it easily. We called bullshit when CBS spun up the All Access numbers without following up with retention. We watched entire media sites construct "buzz" articles, complete with shill comments lavishing praise on this turd. And in the end, all this is just validation.

And those "Disco" shirts, right when we saw an actual disco on the ship complete with the Bee Gees.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Now you're just trollin'.

Dude, Star Trek isn't a reality show, it's a fictional drama with a well established story canon and style. And yes, reality shows are fictional dramas also, but their level of writing and production has always been notoriously bad. People expect more from the ST brand.

Someone pointing out omissions in your reasonings is not an appropriate reason to call someone a troll. That's like, beneath you. Dude.

• Obviously a large amount of people, perhaps the majority, have shit tastes when it comes to tv shows.
• Whether majority or not, it appears that the production companies cater mostly to those groups, probably because the production costs are lower and the potential profits are larger.
• That's why it's so rare to get a good enjoyable tv show these days.
• You and I can watch STD and pick every little bit of it apart (I choose not to) because we are familiar with (and fan of) the earlier Star Trek shows.
• Although there are many Star Trek fans in the world, the majority of people out there are not Star Trek fans like you and I.
• When they see STD, they see it from a different perspective.
• Modern looking graphics and good production quality. Check.
• Interpersonal shit going on. Check.
• People misbehaving. Check.
• Aggressive weird looking aliens. Check.
• Problems to overcome and missions to complete. Check.
• More people misbehaving. Double-check.
• They have no worries about things not matching up with canon because they're not even aware of it.
• From their perspective the show can be pretty decent to waste some time on. And perhaps become fan of.
• Makes for a pretty attractive business perspective to create a show like that going on what kind of crap people seem to be willing to swallow.

There, I summed it up for clarity.

I'm not defending the show. I'm not even playing devil's advocate. I'm simply providing an alternative perspective in a conversation where it is obviously desperately needed.

 

[PussyGalore]

Someone pointing out omissions in your reasonings is not an appropriate reason to call someone a troll. That's like, beneath you. Dude.

• Obviously a large amount of people, perhaps the majority, have shit tastes when it comes to tv shows.
• Whether majority or not, it appears that the production companies cater mostly to those groups, probably because the production costs are lower and the potential profits are larger.
• That's why it's so rare to get a good enjoyable tv show these days.
• You and I can watch STD and pick every little bit of it apart (I choose not to) because we are familiar with (and fan of) the earlier Star Trek shows.
• Although there are many Star Trek fans in the world, the majority of people out there are not Star Trek fans like you and I.
• When they see STD, they see it from a different perspective.
• Modern looking graphics and good production quality. Check.
• Interpersonal shit going on. Check.
• People misbehaving. Check.
• Aggressive weird looking aliens. Check.
• Problems to overcome and missions to complete. Check.
• More people misbehaving. Double-check.
• They have no worries about things not matching up with canon because they're not even aware of it.
• From their perspective the show can be pretty decent to waste some time on. And perhaps become fan of.
• Makes for a pretty attractive business perspective to create a show like that going on what kind of crap people seem to be willing to swallow.

There, I summed it up for clarity.

I'm not defending the show. I'm not even playing devil's advocate. I'm simply providing an alternative perspective in a conversation where it is obviously desperately needed.

Oh relax Mary, you know "trollin'" in this context isn't an insult. It's a jocular, friendly jab. I even used a laughing emoji. Please stop being such a sensitive plant.

As for your argument, I actually hear what you're saying but I think in the face of what we've already seen regarding STD it's going to continue to play out as us Negative Nancies have predicted. Sure it would be great if we could get a quality Star Trek show but how, exactly, do you see that happening with STD? You know from other shows that have tried to do major retconning that it almost never works. The flaws in STD aren't just cosmetic, many of them are also related to canon.

So obviously, my argument is that STD is too far off the rails at this point to be fixed for any audience, be they hardcore ST fans or just casual viewers who don't give a rip about canon and verity and all that stuff. But hey, if I'm wrong in the long run I will admit it. If these producers can right this sinking ship and make it an exciting, interesting story replete with heroic characters I will be a happy camper because that's exactly what I want. Hell, it's what all of us here wants.

And lastly:

 

[heisenberg]

Someone pointing out omissions in your reasonings is not an appropriate reason to call someone a troll. That's like, beneath you. Dude.

• Obviously a large amount of people, perhaps the majority, have shit tastes when it comes to tv shows.
• Whether majority or not, it appears that the production companies cater mostly to those groups, probably because the production costs are lower and the potential profits are larger.
• That's why it's so rare to get a good enjoyable tv show these days.
• You and I can watch STD and pick every little bit of it apart (I choose not to) because we are familiar with (and fan of) the earlier Star Trek shows.
• Although there are many Star Trek fans in the world, the majority of people out there are not Star Trek fans like you and I.
• When they see STD, they see it from a different perspective.
• Modern looking graphics and good production quality. Check.
• Interpersonal shit going on. Check.
• People misbehaving. Check.
• Aggressive weird looking aliens. Check.
• Problems to overcome and missions to complete. Check.
• More people misbehaving. Double-check.
• They have no worries about things not matching up with canon because they're not even aware of it.
• From their perspective the show can be pretty decent to waste some time on. And perhaps become fan of.
• Makes for a pretty attractive business perspective to create a show like that going on what kind of crap people seem to be willing to swallow.

There, I summed it up for clarity.

I'm not defending the show. I'm not even playing devil's advocate. I'm simply providing an alternative perspective in a conversation where it is obviously desperately needed.

Discovery Suffered from the same fate as The simpsons. It tried to be something it's not.

 

[Overmind One]

Discovery's final act of desperation Season 1 episode 15:


I do like the Discovery 1701 (I mentioned it earlier). But the problems have been compounded now. If they show holograms and a windshield on the 1701, along with those blue displays and a different bridge, then this is not the prime universe and the timelines are different. I do not expect flashing dummy lights and flip switches, but I also don't expect the grimdark look of Discovery's bridge. Showing their 1701 bridge is going to be a defining moment.

 

[heisenberg]

Discovery's final act of desperation Season 1 episode 15:


I do like the Discovery 1701 (I mentioned it earlier). But the problems have been compounded now. If they show holograms and a windshield on the 1701, along with those blue displays and a different bridge, then this is not the prime universe and the timelines are different. I do not expect flashing dummy lights and flip switches, but I also don't expect the grimdark look of Discovery's bridge. Showing their 1701 bridge is going to be a defining moment.

Funny they also played the old trek theme. Seriously, do they really think that this is going to win back old fans? This scene alone makes me want to watch it even less.

 

[heisenberg]

Discovery's final act of desperation Season 1 episode 15:


I do like the Discovery 1701 (I mentioned it earlier). But the problems have been compounded now. If they show holograms and a windshield on the 1701, along with those blue displays and a different bridge, then this is not the prime universe and the timelines are different. I do not expect flashing dummy lights and flip switches, but I also don't expect the grimdark look of Discovery's bridge. Showing their 1701 bridge is going to be a defining moment.

 

[Overmind One]

Funny they also played the old trek theme. Seriously, do they really think that this is going to win back old fans? This scene alone makes me want to watch it even less.

Yes! And they want them to sign up for All Access again to watch.

 

[PussyGalore]

Yes! And they want them to sign up for All Access again to watch.

Crazy how they expect Star Trek fans to pay to be insulted.

 

[heisenberg]

Yes! And they want them to sign up for All Access again to watch.

Crazy how they expect Star Trek fans to pay to be insulted.

They are still desperate to get people to sign up for their POS
https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/85fyeg/if_you_still_havent_seen_discovery_cbs_is/

 

[PussyGalore]

They are still desperate to get people to sign up for their POS
https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/85fyeg/if_you_still_havent_seen_discovery_cbs_is/

OMG, the CBS No Access whiners in that thread are ridiculous. If I knew their addresses I'd send them all a box of tampons.

ETA: Some people in that thread are bitching about how the cancel subscription button isn't working for CBS No Access. Imagine that.

 

[Overmind One]

OMG, the CBS No Access whiners in that thread are ridiculous. If I knew their addresses I'd send them all a box of tampons.

ETA: Some people in that thread are bitching about how the cancel subscription button isn't working for CBS No Access. Imagine that.

BAHAHAHAHAHA! They really have dropped to the depths of the swamp with that one! I bet the phone line is also "having trouble". When this show is canceled mid-season 2, it will be the shortest run of any Trek series, INCLUDING the Animated Series.