NuBSG on BBCA

[Joelist]

Razor is on Netflix. Look in the episode list for NuBSG - it is actually there as the first episode in Season 4 (weird place but whatever).

It has its good points (like showing at least a tiny bit of the work Lee had to do to rebuild the discipline and espirit de corps of the Pegasus crew). However, there is a certain revelation about Admiral Cain that really makes her come off as petty. Before Razor one could at least think she suffered a breakdown under stress which caused her to be like she was but after it is evident she is being a jilted lover - really petty.

 

[Graybrew1]

]Razor is on Netflix. Look in the episode list for NuBSG - it is actually there as the first episode in Season 4 (weird place but whatever).[/B]

It has its good points (like showing at least a tiny bit of the work Lee had to do to rebuild the discipline and espirit de corps of the Pegasus crew). However, there is a certain revelation about Admiral Cain that really makes her come off as petty. Before Razor one could at least think she suffered a breakdown under stress which caused her to be like she was but after it is evident she is being a jilted lover - really petty.

You are correct!! That is messed up because when you look it up on it's on, it is DVD only.
Thanks for the info Joelist. That just saved me 3 bucks rental.

 

[ArwenOfTrek]

Yeah, I think they stuck it with Season 4 because that is when it was actually released - between seasons 3 and 4. Though, thematically, I'd watch it after Pegasus, etc.

Joelist, to me, it seemed more like that was just the final straw. She didn't seem like she would just be petty for pettiness sake, but that it was the final straw that led her to become the really hard person and treat her like she did... (trying to talk in code so as not to give spoilers to Graybrew - sorry if I did...)

 

[Graybrew1]

Yeah, I think they stuck it with Season 4 because that is when it was actually released - between seasons 3 and 4. Though, thematically, I'd watch it after Pegasus, etc.

Joelist, to me, it seemed more like that was just the final straw. She didn't seem like she would just be petty for pettiness sake, but that it was the final straw that led her to become the really hard person and treat her like she did... (trying to talk in code so as not to give spoilers to Graybrew - sorry if I did...)

No Good Job.
That was vague enough, nothing spoiled for me.

 

[Joelist]

Yeah, I think they stuck it with Season 4 because that is when it was actually released - between seasons 3 and 4. Though, thematically, I'd watch it after Pegasus, etc.

Joelist, to me, it seemed more like that was just the final straw. She didn't seem like she would just be petty for pettiness sake, but that it was the final straw that led her to become the really hard person and treat her like she did... (trying to talk in code so as not to give spoilers to Graybrew - sorry if I did...)

I could buy it better if it were just "hardness" but it isn't - her method in this case is deliberately (as evidenced by her specific orders) sadistic. That means vengeance and hence pettiness. It was a bad idea to write this element in because it degrades her character (as I said earlier before this one could at least try to rationalize her away as a stress related breakdown).

 

[ArwenOfTrek]

No Good Job.
That was vague enough, nothing spoiled for me.

Good, glad to hear. Now let's hope this doesn't either...

I could buy it better if it were just "hardness" but it isn't - her method in this case is deliberately (as evidenced by her specific orders) sadistic. That means vengeance and hence pettiness. It was a bad idea to write this element in because it degrades her character (as I said earlier before this one could at least try to rationalize her away as a stress related breakdown).

Yes, they were deliberate and cruel. And yes, I'm sure some vengeance/pettiness was involved to a certain degree - it did hit her pretty hard; she was definitely betrayed. To me, it was a combination of everything though that pushed her over the edge to where she became petty. She had gone through A WHOLE LOT of stuff and made a lot of sacrifices and hard decisions only for it to come to this... So, she got a little petty right afterwards (and her personality, once you've made a decision, you stick with it regardless of whether you feel differently about it later).

Now, don't get me wrong, I would never really defend Caine's character. I absolutely hated the woman! But, I can see how even an extremely military person who has been held in check could lose it in this instance, and that it does still fit with her character. Of course, as I said before, I don't have near the military background or understanding that you or many others have, so I could be completely misreading things... Just the way I see it...

 

[Joelist]

True, differences in view. To me it really debased her character as she was petty and deliberately sadistic. Which of course also goes back to the basic point that a psychotic like Cain would never have made it thru the screening and psych evaluation modern militaries use (especially one as professional as the Colonial Fleet is depicted as being) for officer candidates - to say nothing of having risen to flag rank. It is quite similar to a reason SGU was not credible in it's military depiction - there was simply no way people like Young, Scott and Greer would ever have mad officer much less been admitted to the Stargate program.

 

[ArwenOfTrek]

Haven't seen SGU yet. I know this is a Stargate forum and all, but I'm only on season 2 of SG-1 so far... It's okay. My daughter is really getting into it and wanted to participate in here, but since she's still quite young (though very advanced philosophically), she can't be on here unless I am...

Yeah, see since I have no idea what screenings, etc., people go through for military, that stuff just basically goes over my head. I didn't know there was screening, to be honest with you, until you mentioned it here a few days ago... But, still, even if she did pass through the screening, a lot more stuff happened than anyone really foresaw being possible. It's possible they didn't test for quite such extremes. Or maybe she cheated like Kirk did on the Kobyashi Maru (sp?) (though I can't really see her doing that; I think she just snapped because of everything). Also, tests are different than real life...

 

[Graybrew1]

Haven't seen SGU yet. I know this is a Stargate forum and all, but I'm only on season 2 of SG-1 so far... It's okay. My daughter is really getting into it and wanted to participate in here, but since she's still quite young (though very advanced philosophically), she can't be on here unless I am...

Yeah, see since I have no idea what screenings, etc., people go through for military, that stuff just basically goes over my head. I didn't know there was screening, to be honest with you, until you mentioned it here a few days ago... But, still, even if she did pass through the screening, a lot more stuff happened than anyone really foresaw being possible. It's possible they didn't test for quite such extremes. Or maybe she cheated like Kirk did on the Kobyashi Maru (sp?) (though I can't really see her doing that; I think she just snapped because of everything). Also, tests are different than real life...

Actually, don't let the name fool you. We are much more than a Stargate forum. We are a Scifi and more forum. Check out our threads on many other shows from Fringe to Deadliest Catch. I have one going on right now for Supernatural, and of course for BSG. We also do rewathces are TV shows and movies that you can feel free to join into at any time.

 

[Joelist]

Haven't seen SGU yet. I know this is a Stargate forum and all, but I'm only on season 2 of SG-1 so far... It's okay. My daughter is really getting into it and wanted to participate in here, but since she's still quite young (though very advanced philosophically), she can't be on here unless I am...

Yeah, see since I have no idea what screenings, etc., people go through for military, that stuff just basically goes over my head. I didn't know there was screening, to be honest with you, until you mentioned it here a few days ago... But, still, even if she did pass through the screening, a lot more stuff happened than anyone really foresaw being possible. It's possible they didn't test for quite such extremes. Or maybe she cheated like Kirk did on the Kobyashi Maru (sp?) (though I can't really see her doing that; I think she just snapped because of everything). Also, tests are different than real life...

Graybrew is indeed right - the site is named Gatefans but we cover a lot of ground. We have threads and even full show reviews on series not only Stargate but Warehouse 13, Sanctuary, Mythbusters, Deadliest Catch, Eureka and many more. So NuBSG discussion fits right in.

Military screening (especially if you are going to be in charge of a strategic weapons platform) is a layered and in depth process. It includes a detailed personality profile for example (there are personality types that will not be entrusted with such command precisely because the objective is to know how they will react in extreme situations). Someone who is temperamental or has any tendencies towards letting anger or feelings of vengeance override their reasoning is disqualified (this is probably why Hollywood shows officers acting out on this stuff a lot but it is hard to find real life examples in modern professional officer corps). So there is no real way to cheat the test.

Adama is much closer to reality than Cain or Tigh are. Granted he has his own weakness in that he tends to let things slide, especially where he has attachments to the individuals. But note that overall he is pretty level headed.

 

[ArwenOfTrek]

Graybrew is indeed right - the site is named Gatefans but we cover a lot of ground. We have threads and even full show reviews on series not only Stargate but Warehouse 13, Sanctuary, Mythbusters, Deadliest Catch, Eureka and many more. So NuBSG discussion fits right in.

Military screening (especially if you are going to be in charge of a strategic weapons platform) is a layered and in depth process. It includes a detailed personality profile for example (there are personality types that will not be entrusted with such command precisely because the objective is to know how they will react in extreme situations). Someone who is temperamental or has any tendencies towards letting anger or feelings of vengeance override their reasoning is disqualified (this is probably why Hollywood shows officers acting out on this stuff a lot but it is hard to find real life examples in modern professional officer corps). So there is no real way to cheat the test.

Adama is much closer to reality than Cain or Tigh are. Granted he has his own weakness in that he tends to let things slide, especially where he has attachments to the individuals. But note that overall he is pretty level headed.

I have noticed that the board has a lot more discussions on it. So far this is the only one I've explored at all. Watch parties don't really work very well with me, though, because my hours are so odd... And changing... Though someday I would love to participate in one...

Joelist, thank you very much for your breaking down of military screening. I honestly had no idea. However, in the show, we are talking about a whole different world. Their screening processes could have been considerably different than ours are. Obviously, there must have been some screenings (Zach was supposed to have failed one), but maybe they're different and don't catch as much. Maybe in the Galactica world, more officers are allowed through who do operate off of emotion - or at least might tend to go in that way. Just a thought...

 

[Joelist]

I have noticed that the board has a lot more discussions on it. So far this is the only one I've explored at all. Watch parties don't really work very well with me, though, because my hours are so odd... And changing... Though someday I would love to participate in one...

Joelist, thank you very much for your breaking down of military screening. I honestly had no idea. However, in the show, we are talking about a whole different world. Their screening processes could have been considerably different than ours are. Obviously, there must have been some screenings (Zach was supposed to have failed one), but maybe they're different and don't catch as much. Maybe in the Galactica world, more officers are allowed through who do operate off of emotion - or at least might tend to go in that way. Just a thought...

I think you're referring to Zach failing flight training.

The point, however, is that any advanced military is going to exercise caution about who gets given responsibility for strategic weapons (and a battlestar is definitely such a platform). And Cain's personality (and psychotic tendencies) would have kept her out of command. To assume that in the BSG world they had no such strictures completely blows apart "willing suspension of disbelief". And willing suspension of disbelief is totally critical for BSG, especially as it main selling point was that it was supposed to be realistic Sci-fi.

In fact, a good case can be made that the tanking of the ratings after Season 2 correlates to the loss of realism in the sci-fi and military sections of the show (and the degradation of the show into soap opera). The lack of such realism definitely had a role in sinking SGU.

 

[ArwenOfTrek]

I just meant they might have different strictures than we do, and maybe some of those people who might allow emotion to govern some of their actions would be allowed through. They might test them to make sure they would make better decisions, but they may not have quite as strict codes in their military... I don't know. Just a thought.

But I can see how you would see it that way... I just think it's a completely different ballgame we're talking about, so most anything is possible...

 

[ArwenOfTrek]

Oh, and yeah, I guess I was referring to Zach failing flight training. It's been awhile since I watched the show (my DVDs are loaned out right now)...

 

[Graybrew1]

Okay, today I am finally getting around to watching Razor. This is a really good, and I am only about a half hour into it.

 

[Graybrew1]

All done with Razor.

That was a great mini-movie.Too bad they had to get rid of that one character. I liked her. I now understand why Caine allowed them to torture the Cylon. I also understand why the Pegasus people are so hardened.

 

[ArwenOfTrek]

Yeah, I enjoyed the movie too. Really helps you understand the Pegasus episodes a lot better...

 

[Graybrew1]

I have really kicked up my personal rewatch of BSG. I am now off of New Caprica and the they were killing the collaborators. I am surprised. There was much less shows on New Caprica than I remember their being. The cylons have Hera right now. Their convos are a bit confusing with Gauis. Tigh is devasted over killing Ellen. Starbuck just chopped her hair and broke up with Anders. Sharon is mad and thinks they killed Hera. Rosyln is back in charge.

I will say, they had Appollo lose that weight way too fast. I am curious to know, how much time passage that was supposed to be. One show he was heavy and the next he is saying...."that was hard, don't let me eve do that again". He is not only trim but cut. He looked to be about 40 pounds overweight. I think you can safely lose max of 2 pounds a week. So, was that supposed to be six months later? It did not seem like it.

 

[Joelist]

Get ready for the plunge - a lot of people (including me) found this season to be an almost unwatchable soap opera (which is evidenced by the big ratings tailspin that occured). This is when the show both escalates the relationship drama to an unbearable level and seriously messes with its basic plot (to the point where they had to retcon like crazy later on to try to make it all fit together).

That said, at least Exodus was decent. The funny thing there was had Adama stuck to his guns and ordered Pegasus to be on the mission as originally plannned then in all likelihood Pegasus is not destroyed and Galactica not heavily damaged. The plan was good, as even with only one battlestar they completely skunked the Cylons. It just needed one more ship at the beginning,

The worst part, however, is when you discover (in production notes and such) that the reason they wrote it this way had nothing to do with a consistent story. They needed to save money and the Pegasus sets were a budget item they could trim by destroying the ship.

 

[shavedape]

Yeah, I was a die hard fan up until this point. The show got downright embarrassing this particular season. And no, it never quite recovered.