King of the Monsters thoughts

[Overmind One]

Mothra wounded but did not kill Rodan. Godzilla did not eat Ghidorah - two of the heads he had burned up and bit the last one off - that is what he was mangling and then just disintegrated. In fact remember he literally put his foot through Ghidorah's torso while in Fire mode immediately before the last Nuclear Pulse (another throwback - the ability was introduced in Godzilla v Biollante).

I don't agree that the Russells were the center of the story. Emotionally Serizawa was. Kyle Chandler's character had anger with the Kaiju after his son was killed in San Francisco. But by the end of things he had made his peace and wasn't angry at Godzilla any longer. Yes Emma built the Orca that she and Kyle had designed earlier and yes she came off a bit like a virtue signaler for a bit - then she started to get what she had done was foolish at best and finally tried to fix it. Her arc made sense as did his.

I guess I did not mind having this family because they were properly integrated into the story and were not ordinary people caught up in the battle. That and Kyle Chandler is a much better actor than Aaron Taylor Johnson.

Note my take is similar to other Godzilla fan groups (DMan1954 et al).

We will agree to disagree on the family point then. . My main concern with them is that they might continue with their story in the next film. Serizara is gone, but both Kyle and Madison Russell survived. All I care to see in the next movie is Godzilla and perhaps some of the other monsters. No Russels or Joneses or Williams or any other new family. We needed a more scientist centered story with Serizawa in the center. At this point, we need a Monster Island and a soft-reboot of Destroy All Monsters since all of the kaiju are awake now. And the writers will need to be mindful that many major cities are destroyed and not just show them rebuilt after 5 years.

 

[Joelist]

Good enough.

Note that they stated San Francisco is still not rebuilt five years later. As to scientists, the only characters not scientists in this were Madison and Jonah. I do wonder who is running Monarch now? The Number One and the Number Two were killed in this film and while Mark Russell took command after Serizawa died I am not sure it was made permanent - he was just senior scientist and also had the closest to a plan (he overruled Bradley Whitford and said this time they were taking a side in the Kaiju battle - Godzilla's side).

As long as they tell us Bradley Whitford got eaten by a Kaiju I am totally okay with Mark Russell being head of Monarch - just say something like Madison is off at college. Plus there is a director video where he says the next film will definitely reveal the Doctors Chen as the Shobijin and demonstrate their ability to communicate with the Kaiju.

 

[Overmind One]

Good enough.

Note that they stated San Francisco is still not rebuilt five years later. As to scientists, the only characters not scientists in this were Madison and Jonah. I do wonder who is running Monarch now? The Number One and the Number Two were killed in this film and while Mark Russell took command after Serizawa died I am not sure it was made permanent - he was just senior scientist and also had the closest to a plan (he overruled Bradley Whitford and said this time they were taking a side in the Kaiju battle - Godzilla's side).

As long as they tell us Bradley Whitford got eaten by a Kaiju I am totally okay with Mark Russell being head of Monarch - just say something like Madison is off at college. Plus there is a director video where he says the next film will definitely reveal the Doctors Chen as the Shobijin and demonstrate their ability to communicate with the Kaiju.

I hope the bolded happens. I am still wondering why the Shobijin did not intervene with Monarch while Mothra's larva was being held captive. I do know that the Shobijin will not themselves do violence, and although they are magical they can be trapped. Traditionally, when Mothra shows up she dies after morphing into her moth form after laying her egg. There is still room to add Gamera. When I watched the movie for the second time, I was specifically looking for the connection between the twin researchers and the Shobijin and did not see it. Why would the Shobijin hide themselves in a lab? They are fairies. Their Mahara Mothra chant is consistent through all the kaiju films. Maybe the writers want to avoid the overt fantasy elements? So, no Kilaak aliens?

 

[Joelist]

IIRC the Chen doctors were shown as:

- Identical twin sisters descended from identical twin sisters

- Both mythologists

- Understand more than they should both about the Kaiju and especially about Mothra and her function

- We see one appear to be singing or praying when the adult form emerges from chrysalis

- When Mark Russell is speaking to Ilene Chen it is revealed that the Chen family comes from Infant Island

Maybe they reasoned that the safest place to watch over Mothra was with the larva in the Monarch facility. They were in essence assisting her in plain sight.

As to aliens, they went with the alien origin for Ghidorah so they are already down the same road the Kilaaks reside on. In fact I liked that plot point - that Ghidorah was the problem as it was not part of the natural order but rather came to Earth and usurped the Alpha position in the Titan pack - the False King.

 

[Joelist]

Also a thought about the final scene where the other Kaiju all bow to Godzilla. This is right out of natural pack behavior when the old alpha is replaced by a new one. The others choose right then and there whether to challenge the new alpha (in which case another fight ensues) or they exhibit some type of submission behavior in essence accepting the new pack leader.

The other Kaiju had just arrived and saw Ghidorah was burnt rubbish and Godzilla triumphant. Godzilla looked at each Kaiju and one by one they bowed. Rodan seemed like he might challenge for a moment but Godzilla stared at him and then he too bowed. Then came the final Goji roar in essence saying "I am the Alpha".

 

[Overmind One]

Also a thought about the final scene where the other Kaiju all bow to Godzilla. This is right out of natural pack behavior when the old alpha is replaced by a new one. The others choose right then and there whether to challenge the new alpha (in which case another fight ensues) or they exhibit some type of submission behavior in essence accepting the new pack leader

For me, the bolded is a head tilter. Since when did the kaiju of the world become a "pack"? In most of Godzilla's films, he was battling most every other kaiju at some point, and they were not just wrestling or play fighting. They could have left that scene out.

The other Kaiju had just arrived and saw Ghidorah was burnt rubbish and Godzilla triumphant. Godzilla looked at each Kaiju and one by one they bowed. Rodan seemed like he might challenge for a moment but Godzilla stared at him and then he too bowed. Then came the final Goji roar in essence saying "I am the Alpha".

That scene was a cringe for me. I get what you are saying, but all of that only makes sense if you accept that the world's kaiju are now a "pack". The orca device makes this assumption and builds upon it before I am ready to accept it. I am to believe that a manmade device can send out a signal that forces all of the kaiju (which are different species) to respond to it? The Kilaak devices were controlled by the Kilaak directly, and could be tailored to each kaiju (or human) as they saw fit. The orca device is essentially a transmitter. How could it send something called an "alpha signal" that makes spiders, birds, insects, reptiles and mammals respond? That is what I meant by it being a deus ex machina. The humans were assumed to be in control of all the kaiju from the beginning, only briefly losing it to Ghidorah, then regaining it. To me that is not in keeping with what the kaiju are.

 

[Joelist]

The Orca was portrayed as a communication device that Emma thought might be able to be used for some control of Kaiju but it did not prove out to be so (as evidenced when it did nothing at all to Ghidorah). Ghidorah was the one that exercised some control when it defeated Rodan who submitted to it then it made its domination call which awakened all the other Kaiju and set them to destroy. Note that Mothra and Godzilla did not obey the call - one assumes because they were different than the others (in the movie they theorized that they are cooperating alphas themselves so they were immune to Ghidorah's call).

When late in the movie Madison stole the Orca and wired it into the transmitters it had been already rewired by Emma to emit a frequency designed to try to break Ghidorah's effect. It did so and indeed attracted them all to Boston - including Ghidorah who came to destroy it.

As it was all explained and set up in the story it is not a Deus Ex Machina. In fact it didn't even magically fix everything which is typically what a Deus Ex Machina does. Oh, and the effect of the Orca was actually a callback to Godzilla 1985 and also Terror of Mechagodzilla.

As to the Kaiju all acknowledging Godzilla as leader that we saw several times in the series. Godzilla leads other Kaiju in several Showa films.

 

[Overmind One]

The Orca was portrayed as a communication device that Emma thought might be able to be used for some control of Kaiju but it did not prove out to be so (as evidenced when it did nothing at all to Ghidorah). Ghidorah was the one that exercised some control when it defeated Rodan who submitted to it then it made its domination call which awakened all the other Kaiju and set them to destroy. Note that Mothra and Godzilla did not obey the call - one assumes because they were different than the others (in the movie they theorized that they are cooperating alphas themselves so they were immune to Ghidorah's call).

When late in the movie Madison stole the Orca and wired it into the transmitters it had been already rewired by Emma to emit a frequency designed to try to break Ghidorah's effect. It did so and indeed attracted them all to Boston - including Ghidorah who came to destroy it.

As it was all explained and set up in the story it is not a Deus Ex Machina. In fact it didn't even magically fix everything which is typically what a Deus Ex Machina does. Oh, and the effect of the Orca was actually a callback to Godzilla 1985 and also Terror of Mechagodzilla.

As to the Kaiju all acknowledging Godzilla as leader that we saw several times in the series. Godzilla leads other Kaiju in several Showa films.

I understand why you want to explain away all of the things that were weak points in the movie, but to almost imply that no mistakes were made and the movie was fine as released would give nothing for the producers and writers to improve upon. The reality is, that this Godzilla movie was far less successful than the 2014 movie and there have to be reasons for that. I have suggested a few reasons, and I have explained the issues I had with the film. If they improve upon those things I thought were stumbles, I think (for me) the next movie will be better. I would even like to see them do a prequel to the 2014 movie where Godzilla first appears (in the 1954 movie). The only completely foreign element in the 2014 movie and also this 2019 movie is the story of a family woven within it. Individual characters like Serizawa, and even Bryan Cranston's Brody character were just fine. The family thing with Brody's son and wife and child were not necessary. Add in a female scientist to round it out and perhaps a bruiser type military guy or girl. But no family. There was never any family story as part of any kaiju film ever made until the 2014 movie. Let's not bring the Russells back or any other family.

 

[Overmind One]

Good enough.

Note that they stated San Francisco is still not rebuilt five years later. As to scientists, the only characters not scientists in this were Madison and Jonah. I do wonder who is running Monarch now? The Number One and the Number Two were killed in this film and while Mark Russell took command after Serizawa died I am not sure it was made permanent - he was just senior scientist and also had the closest to a plan (he overruled Bradley Whitford and said this time they were taking a side in the Kaiju battle - Godzilla's side).

As long as they tell us Bradley Whitford got eaten by a Kaiju I am totally okay with Mark Russell being head of Monarch - just say something like Madison is off at college. Plus there is a director video where he says the next film will definitely reveal the Doctors Chen as the Shobijin and demonstrate their ability to communicate with the Kaiju.

I would be okay with Kyle running Monarch too. But to bring back Kyle is to also bring back Madison, and to being back the story of poor dead Andrew driving his pain. Maybe they could have Serizawa have a son he never mentioned?

 

[Joelist]

Actually I was just quoting right from the movie, so the movie actually did the explaining.

Boxoffice wise a LOT of films right now are way underperforming in the US. Dark Phoenix was a total flop and will lose about 100 million. MiB International is also on the road to a complete implosion. I think it is partly Endgame basically sucking all the air out of the room and as a result poor release scheduling. Had they stuck with the original March release plan the numbers in the US would be rather higher. What Legendary has going for it is because it is part of Wanda Group it gets a FAR higher percentage of the Asian boxoffice take than the other studios. Consequently KotM is already at breakeven.

 

[Joelist]

I would be okay with Kyle running Monarch too. But to bring back Kyle is to also bring back Madison, and to being back the story of poor dead Andrew driving his pain. Maybe they could have Serizawa have a son he never mentioned?

Not necessarily. He resolved the whole Andrew thing in the course of the film and for Madison just say she is off at college or something.

 

[Overmind One]

Not necessarily. He resolved the whole Andrew thing in the course of the film and for Madison just say she is off at college or something.

Yeah, they could definitely do that. I think Millie Bobby Brown is AWESOME as an actress, and I love her. But I am not sure what her place would be in another Godzilla film, I don't think she took anything away from the movie, she just did not really need to be in it. Kyle works very well in this genre. We really needed to keep Serizawa, and I am not sure why they killed him off.

 

[Joelist]

Yeah, they could definitely do that. I think Millie Bobby Brown is AWESOME as an actress, and I love her. But I am not sure what her place would be in another Godzilla film, I don't think she took anything away from the movie, she just did not really need to be in it. Kyle works very well in this genre. We really needed to keep Serizawa, and I am not sure why they killed him off.

I'm not sure why they sacrificed Serizawa. But he definitely lived up to his name and his final scenes carried a lot of weight. And yes Kyle Chandler is so much better than Aaron Taylor Johnson it defies comparison.

 

[Overmind One]

I'm not sure why they sacrificed Serizawa. But he definitely lived up to his name and his final scenes carried a lot of weight. And yes Kyle Chandler is so much better than Aaron Taylor Johnson it defies comparison.

Yep, with the few things I had issue with, I still loved this movie and I look forward to more. I don't really get why this movie did not do at least as well as the last one. They gave us everything we asked for. Lots more Godzilla, Mothra and Rodan and at least appearances by Spiga, Anguirus and I thought I saw Manda too. For kaiju fans, this was a monsterfest! I hope the lower profits won't throw the next movie into question.

 

[Joelist]

As of yesterday I have the home video release (in this case 4K streaming).

The quality is superb and interestingly it looks better than it did in the theatre. If I had to say how, it would be that the Kaiju fight scenes have had the contrast between the background and the Kaiju punched up a bit so now they are closer in palette to what we saw in the original Pacific Rim.

 

[Joelist]

This is an interesting video looking at the film structurally: