Babylon 5 thoughts and why it is better than DS9

Joelist

Joelist

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Over the past 2 weeks I did a full binge watch of Babylon 5. Some things I noticed:

1) It obeys its own internal canon VERY well. This is probably because Babylon 5 is the poster child for a show that had a show "Bible" and actually adhered to it. As a result the show is semi-serialized and it is good at paying off every long running plot line. The show left nothing dangling out there.

2) The characters. This is an area where B5 simply outclasses DS9 and to be honest most other Science Fiction except possibly The Expanse. Deep characterization everywhere and the characters may do dark things but even the most morally suspect ones (Bester, Londo) either have some good qualities and/or at least a sort of redemption arc (Londo). One of my favorites is how Vir Cotto evolves over time from kind of timid and bumbling aide to Londo into eventually probably the greatest Emperor the Centauri Republic ever has. Likewise G'Kar, Lyta, heck everyone. DS9 has okay characterization but not on this level.

3) The acting. DS9 has some good acting (Jadzia, Quark) and some not so good acting (Sisko, Keiko, and more). Generally they do inhabit their characters decently well. B5 however is again on another level. The acting out of everyone is first level. Some REAL standouts include Mira Furlan as Delenn, Walter Koenig as Bester, Peter Jurasik as Londo, Andreas Katsulas as G'Kar and Claudia Christian as Ivanova.

4) The plot. B5 is a sweeping epic space opera that feels a lot like a high quality novel - it's even structured that way. You feel the historical arc as it fills in and you care about the characters and want to see them do well. DS9 clearly is copying B5 here but also trying to stay recognizably Star Trek and this is where it is hampered - Trek's premise doesn't really work well in a serialized format. The other problem DS9 has here is it really feels more like a soap opera a fair amount of the time with "who's shipping with who" being too prominent. B5 smartly kept the shipping both to a minimum and also tied closely to the story and the story always came first - even in the romance of Sheridan and Delenn.

Some thoughts...
 
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Shadow Mann

Shadow Mann

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I 100% agree. I really need to rewatch it in a binge to remember all the nuances of the series, but the writing and semi-serialized episodic format over a single long epic arc is still unmatched to this day IMO. Like you said, it's likely because the entire show from beginning to end was written out before anything even went into production. As it should be. The ONLY complaints I had about it were the graphics (in space). They were using vector graphics and it just does not look as good to me compared to Star Trek was airing at the same time. Still, that was not enough to take away from the show.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVXCE7bLgbo
 
Joelist

Joelist

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Watch the remastered version, it has improved graphics.
 
Shadow Mann

Shadow Mann

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I will see if I can get those. I have all five seasons already, but not the remastered one. Thanks for the tip!
 
Joelist

Joelist

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It has roughly 110 episodes and while they have episodic elements there are series long storylines and ALL are followed and resolved. Just so you know what kind of binge you're in for.
 
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G

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
Joelist said:
I did one recently and posted an article concerning it:

Babylon 5 thoughts and why it is better than DS9

Over the past 2 weeks I did a full binge watch of Babylon 5. Some things I noticed: 1) It obeys its own internal canon VERY well. This is probably because Babylon 5 is the poster child for a show that had a show "Bible" and actually adhered to it. As a result the show is semi-serialized and it...
www.gatefans.net
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B5 IS very much true to it's own "internal canon" but J. Michael Straczynski is simply a better writer than Rick Berman. Also, a lot of the dialogue in DS-9 felt "forced" whereas B5 feels more natural (again more of a writing style). I think you are underrating Avery Brooks though, Sisko was an excellent character, especially in the last 3 seasons of DS-9. I love both shows, but B5 will always hold a higher regard in my heart G'Kar will ALWAYS remain quite possibly my favorite Sci-fi character, but a great deal of that comes down to Andreas Katsulas performance, and the touching monologues he had.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2UQ2l9NPIg

If that does not touch your heart, nothing will.
 
Joelist

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
Gatefan1976 said:
B5 IS very much true to it's own "internal canon" but J. Michael Straczynski is simply a better writer than Rick Berman. Also, a lot of the dialogue in DS-9 felt "forced" whereas B5 feels more natural (again more of a writing style). I think you are underrating Avery Brooks though, Sisko was an excellent character, especially in the last 3 seasons of DS-9. I love both shows, but B5 will always hold a higher regard in my heart G'Kar will ALWAYS remain quite possibly my favorite Sci-fi character, but a great deal of that comes down to Andreas Katsulas performance, and the touching monologues he had.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2UQ2l9NPIg

If that does not touch your heart, nothing will.
Click to expand...
I agree, JMS was at the top of his game and produced something remarkable. The quality of the writing is on another level and the acting likewise is superb across the board. I concur Andreas Katsulas killed it as G'Kar and the rest of the cast likewise gave memorable performances. One that was a surprise was Walter Koenig as Bester - I just cannot think of him as Chekov anymore.

If you have the ability to get them I recommend reading the Legions of Fire book trilogy (which is canon per JMS) then watch Sleeping in Light - it adds context to make an already poignant and excellent episode brilliant.
 
Joelist

Joelist

What ship is this?
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That was a classic G'Kar moment.
 
Joelist

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
Decent scene. My issue with Avery Brooks was always his chronic overacting.
 
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Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
Joelist said:
Decent scene. My issue with Avery Brooks was always his chronic overacting.
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He was intense, far more than Picard, sure, but I feel that suited the character. Sisko was always more a "ends justify the means" kind of persona.
 
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Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
Bester was an utter bastard, but Walter DID pull off the character EXTREMELY well. One thing to note, during the series there is a growing sense of desperation or outright fear coming off him which leads to many of his cutting remarks that Walter also played extremely well. He's going from the ultimate insider due to Psi-Cores level of access and control over Earth-Gov, to losing it all., itself an Allogory.
 
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