Who's responsible for the end of Stargate?

Who is to blame for the end of Stargate?


  • Total voters
    41

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
Who's resposible for it?

Lets take each point one at a time:

1: Syfy
Hmm, the only thing I can blame Syfy for is not structuring a better deal with MGM at the time SGA was ended. IF the movies were part of the package (drop SGA, pick up SGU and movies) then I don't think I would be blaming Syfy for anything at all. At the end of the day, Syfy is merely a "shopfront" in order for studio's to sell thier products. Did they advertise it poorly? I don't think so. In fact the largest complaints about poor advertising come from people seem to only watch Syfy for SGU and, shockingly enough, you generally don't do too much advertising for a show while it is airing......
Moving the night it was shown on, nope. I firmly beleive that it was done to give SGU a better shot at new viewers. Tuesday may not have been the best night, but I don't feel it was sent there to die. So, perhaps a little blame there as well for not thinking it through better.

2:MGM
MGM's greatest failure imo is what I give Syfy a total pass on, advertising. It is up to the Studio to hype it's product in locations other than Syfy, no one else. I've heard that there was significant advertising for it before it aired, but unless you continue the campaign, joe public is just going to forget any product, So, blame on them for that aspect.

3: TPTB
Unsuprisingly, this is where the bulk of the blame should lie. TPTB produced the product, and if the product does not appeal to the public, the product gets dropped. This is simple business practice and TPTB are not "nebies", but old hands. They know the way the game is played. I won't even go into the whole attitude of TPTB as it's not nessesary

4:Neilson System
Umm, it's a system designed for advertisers and networks to arrange a "fair price" for advertising costs and revenue, It's not a popularity meter. Blaming the nielson sytem is only done because people cannot understand why it exists. No blame at all.

5: Downloads
Legal or otherwise, this is a level playing feild for the makers of any product that can exist in digital format, be it movies, tv or music. The current systems in place for tracking usage of these things may be a problem, but, like I said, it's everyones problem.

6: The viewers
I honestly don't know how you can blame the viewers at all except to make a case for them not understanding the impact of online viewing. Viewers are the end user and the only decison they truly have is weather they find a product interesting or not and where to obtain it.

7/8 Online forums & "angry SGA/SG1 fans
I'll combine these two as they are IMO directly linked. While the online community may be small, for every person who takes the time to post and discuss a show, there are probably hundreds, if not thousands that share a similar viewpoint. To me, forums are what the people blaming the neilson system are really looking for, a way to guage popularity of a product. GW as the largest SG site around firmly jumped on the SGU bandwagon and as such created the dominant online culture of the coming of SGU being a positive thing. In response, well, you had Counterculture (SGUS) The mere existance of a site for people to go and vent about the problems of a show should have raised red flags, Instead it was dismissed by the GW culture as the rantings of "fringe lunatics". As the site (SGUS) grew however DESPITE GW's efforts to not advertise it, it should have not only raised red flags, but been a bonfire to TPTB and MGM. Can forums really "change stuff"? Probably not, but in this day in age, I would consider it foolish of anyone making a product to ignore what amounts to free market reaserch in you target audience.
 
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Stonelesscutter

Guest
Oh my god!

“Were you surprised by the reaction of fans to the announcement of the cancellation of SGA and the start-up of SGU?”
BW: No. You guys are actually pretty predictable (take no offense, most fan groups are). Unfortunately, you represent a very small portion of the actual viewing audience we need for financial success.


I hadn't seen this quote in a long time but as I just read it now I am suddenly realising we might have been misreading this all along!
"You guys are actually pretty predictable" - Meaning that we as SG fans are fairly loyal to Stargate. (meant as a compliment instead of a slap in the face)
"Unfortunately, you represent a very small portion of the actual viewing audience we need for financial success." - Meaning that even though SG has a loyal fanbase, for this new show to be a success we will need an EVEN LARGER viewing audience. Note how that sentence starts with 'unfortunately'.

I think his comment was never meant to sneer at fans but because of the general atmosphere at the time lots of people (including myself) mistook his words for a fanbashing.
A very unfortunate happenstance all in all.
 
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Stonelesscutter

Guest
He's a writer right? If so, that's one lousy way to write a compliment.

Everyone knows that when you're interviewed you react differently than when you're casually talking to a friend.
I've noticed from video of Brad that he's definitely a tad camera shy and he has some difficulty with standing in a spotlight.
I can relate to that feeling pretty well myself because I usually prefer to remain in the background myself.
Right now I honestly believe that he said something which he meant well but he didn't notice that his words could be easily misinterpreted.
Things like that happen. In case of written text quite often I think.
I'm sure you've had situations when you send somebody a text message which didn't quite come across the way you actually meant it.
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
Everyone knows that when you're interviewed you react differently than when you're casually talking to a friend.
I've noticed from video of Brad that he's definitely a tad camera shy and he has some difficulty with standing in a spotlight.
I can relate to that feeling pretty well myself because I usually prefer to remain in the background myself.
Right now I honestly believe that he said something which he meant well but he didn't notice that his words could be easily misinterpreted.
Things like that happen. In case of written text quite often I think.
I'm sure you've had situations when you send somebody a text message which didn't quite come across the way you actually meant it.

It's the greatest failing of text based communication, you cannot "hear" how someone is saying something. The English language does support inflection and tone in text format, yet sadly, it's not commonly used these days, especially with the use of emoticons to convey feeling rather than bothering to do it "properly"
 

Tropicana

Council Member
Everyone knows that when you're interviewed you react differently than when you're casually talking to a friend.
I've noticed from video of Brad that he's definitely a tad camera shy and he has some difficulty with standing in a spotlight.
I can relate to that feeling pretty well myself because I usually prefer to remain in the background myself.
Right now I honestly believe that he said something which he meant well but he didn't notice that his words could be easily misinterpreted.
Things like that happen. In case of written text quite often I think.
I'm sure you've had situations when you send somebody a text message which didn't quite come across the way you actually meant it.
I haven't, my exs have though. I try to be as clear as possible, removing any ambiguity to avoid confusion.
 

shavedape

Well Known GateFan
This

I cannot get past the idea that it was TPTB with not necessarily knowledgeable collaboration with MGM and SyFy.

I truly believe that TPTB had attempted to get a completely non-Stargate show greenlighted, and that they were told NO. Then, knowing that they had streetcred with the Stargate shows, they tacked on a couple Stargate related things and resubmitted the idea, at which point, MGM and SyFy said "YES!" because it was Stargate, and neither understands what the Real People (TM) out there are like, and what they will and will not like.

Imagine the show as a redo of Lost In Space, but with some different elements. Instead of a loving family stuck in space because someone (a doctor, just like our beloved Dr Smith) sent them there, you have people who hardly knew one another. The character who HAD a familiar face with her lost him in the first episode, so she doesn't have that connection to another person. This breeds suspicion, etc., especially when you're trapped in a mysterious ship with about a third the number of fluorescent bulbs needed to light it (or the equivalent thereof of Mysterious Alien Technology In A Show Without Aliens).

As far as I'm concerned, it's Lost In Space without it being a family, having The Robot, being humorous or having much of anything to help it connect with the viewer.

That said, I'm now picturing the cast photo of SGU with Dr Zachary Smith (Jonathan Harris) and The Robot included.

...sigh...

At least Dr. Smith was fun and campy unlike Dr. Rush. (I absolutely loved it when Dr. Smith would call the Robot a "bubble-headed booby". :icon_lol:)
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Oh no you di'int! Brad did NOT make a mistake, sorry!

[/B]

I hadn't seen this quote in a long time but as I just read it now I am suddenly realising we might have been misreading this all along!
"You guys are actually pretty predictable" - Meaning that we as SG fans are fairly loyal to Stargate. (meant as a compliment instead of a slap in the face)
"Unfortunately, you represent a very small portion of the actual viewing audience we need for financial success." - Meaning that even though SG has a loyal fanbase, for this new show to be a success we will need an EVEN LARGER viewing audience. Note how that sentence starts with 'unfortunately'.

I think his comment was never meant to sneer at fans but because of the general atmosphere at the time lots of people (including myself) mistook his words for a fanbashing.
A very unfortunate happenstance all in all.

If I could, I would bitchslap you for trying to play Devil's Advocate for Brad this time! :) How can you even think about protecting him after his "Atlantis fans are punishing Stargate Universe" rant(s)? His outburst towards Maureen Ryan at the Chicago Tribune is proof that he is edgy, fretful and arrogant. I would be far more willing to admit a misstep with Mallozzi rather than with Brad. Every indication I have tells me that I was wrong about Mallozzi. I have now spoken to people who have worked with him closely and they all say the same thing...that he is a very likeable guy, with a good sense of humor and a bit of a ham. I have written so much bile about him and I am now sorry I wrote much of what I wrote.

Brad does not deserve such leeway. He deserves no mercy. Even Rob Cooper and Paul Mullie and the rest of them left. He is the one who pushed Atlantis off the cliff. He is the one who had decision making powers for season 2. He has shown that his original "slap in the face" is indeed correct.
 

shavedape

Well Known GateFan
That's something of a stretch, even for you

[/B]

I hadn't seen this quote in a long time but as I just read it now I am suddenly realising we might have been misreading this all along!
"You guys are actually pretty predictable" - Meaning that we as SG fans are fairly loyal to Stargate. (meant as a compliment instead of a slap in the face)
"Unfortunately, you represent a very small portion of the actual viewing audience we need for financial success." - Meaning that even though SG has a loyal fanbase, for this new show to be a success we will need an EVEN LARGER viewing audience. Note how that sentence starts with 'unfortunately'.

I think his comment was never meant to sneer at fans but because of the general atmosphere at the time lots of people (including myself) mistook his words for a fanbashing.
A very unfortunate happenstance all in all.

I know I owe you some green but it won't be for this post. Even if he was saying it the way you explain it he was referring to SGA fans as being small in number. They weren't. In fact, there are more SGA fans than SGU fans as evinced by the cold, hard numbers.

No matter how you parse it, he said what he said.

And, if it was as you posit, why would he have taken such a pessimistic tone that early on in SGU's history? That wouldn't make sense for someone as arrogant as he clearly is.
 

shavedape

Well Known GateFan
It's the greatest failing of text based communication, you cannot "hear" how someone is saying something. The English language does support inflection and tone in text format, yet sadly, it's not commonly used these days, especially with the use of emoticons to convey feeling rather than bothering to do it "properly"

I'm not disagreeing with you here but have to ask don't you think that when it became clear that that particular line was taken as an insult to a huge segment of Stargate fans that BW would have clarified what he meant? If it was truly benign in nature (tone, inflection, meaning) then why didn't he try to clear that up?
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
I'm not disagreeing with you here but have to ask don't you think that when it became clear that that particular line was taken as an insult to a huge segment of Stargate fans that BW would have clarified what he meant? If it was truly benign in nature (tone, inflection, meaning) then why didn't he try to clear that up?

Oh, my comment was on the language as a whole brother Ape, not BW's statement.
Even if Stonless'es position is correct on that statement (which I personally doubt), Tropi is dead on saying that as a person who lives and now dies by his own words should have chosen them more carefully. I know that under "interview" type conditions it's easy to slip up, but thats just the sign of a good interviewer in my opinion.
 
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Stonelesscutter

Guest
I'm not disagreeing with you here but have to ask don't you think that when it became clear that that particular line was taken as an insult to a huge segment of Stargate fans that BW would have clarified what he meant? If it was truly benign in nature (tone, inflection, meaning) then why didn't he try to clear that up?

Perhaps he did but at that point nobody was listening anymore.
Maybe he thought it was better not to say anything for a while because at that point the outcry over SGU was so huge that people would have taken whatever words he used and used them as fuel for the fire.
 
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Stonelesscutter

Guest
Oh, my comment was on the language as a whole brother Ape, not BW's statement.
Even if Stonless'es position is correct on that statement (which I personally doubt), Tropi is dead on saying that as a person who lives and now dies by his own words should have chosen them more carefully. I know that under "interview" type conditions it's easy to slip up, but thats just the sign of a good interviewer in my opinion.

I think it's a sign of the person being interviewed being nervous.
 

Mr. A

Super Moderator +
Oh, my comment was on the language as a whole brother Ape, not BW's statement.
Even if Stonless'es position is correct on that statement (which I personally doubt), Tropi is dead on saying that as a person who lives and now dies by his own words should have chosen them more carefully. I know that under "interview" type conditions it's easy to slip up, but thats just the sign of a good interviewer in my opinion.

I think it's a sign of the person being interviewed being nervous.
Stone, Brad is a former actor. He isn't 'camera shy' or 'nervous' like you've been trying to put forward in your posts. :roll:
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
Stonelesscutter said:
I think it's a sign of the person being interviewed being nervous.

Why should he be nervous stoneless? it's hardly his first rodeo is it?
At any rate, as interesting as this convo is, can I get mod cleanup here so as not to further derail this topic please.
 
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Stonelesscutter

Guest
If I could, I would bitchslap you for trying to play Devil's Advocate for Brad this time! :)

*** bending over ***

How can you even think about protecting him after his "Atlantis fans are punishing Stargate Universe" rant(s)? His outburst towards Maureen Ryan at the Chicago Tribune is proof that he is edgy, fretful and arrogant.

That he made comments he shouldn't have made is quite clear. But that does not mean that he meant harm with the specific comment I was referring to. Also I think the timeline is important. Did he make scorning comments before or after this specific one? I don't remember exactly which comments were made a what times. I know that at the time Brad made the comment in question I took it as a slap but that's because I was pissed off with SGU. Now I read the same comment again I do not have the same set of mind that I had back then and I see a harmless comment.

I would be far more willing to admit a misstep with Mallozzi rather than with Brad. Every indication I have tells me that I was wrong about Mallozzi. I have now spoken to people who have worked with him closely and they all say the same thing...that he is a very likeable guy, with a good sense of humor and a bit of a ham. I have written so much bile about him and I am now sorry I wrote much of what I wrote.

I can't believe it! Now you're the one that deserves the bitchslapping. :whip: :)

Brad does not deserve such leeway. He deserves no mercy. Even Rob Cooper and Paul Mullie and the rest of them left. He is the one who pushed Atlantis off the cliff. He is the one who had decision making powers for season 2. He has shown that his original "slap in the face" is indeed correct.

I think you're being hard on Brad while in the future he might turn out to be a huggable loveable type of guy, just as you now see Mallozzi. :) Let's not forget that besides SGU he also gave us SG1 which we all love.
 
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Stonelesscutter

Guest
Stone, Brad is a former actor. He isn't 'camera shy' or 'nervous' like you've been trying to put forward in your posts. :roll:

He is??
I didn't know that.
But still, whenever I've seen him on screen giving interviews I noticed something about him which I would attribute to being nervous.
Maybe that was because of the whole outcry about SGU.
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
He is??
I didn't know that.
But still, whenever I've seen him on screen giving interviews I noticed something about him which I would attribute to being nervous.
Maybe that was because of the whole outcry about SGU.

Quite possibly stoneless my old mate, but don't you think that if that was the case he would have been even more careful about his choice of words?
 
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