The Truth about Hydrogen
- Thread starter heisenberg
- Start date
Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are a non-starter. Besides that, the face of it in America is the HIDEOUS Toyota Mirai. The Mirai might be the most hideous car ever created.
Lord Ba'al
Well Known GateFan
I don't know what a Toyota Mirai looks like, but I'm pretty sure the title of ugliest car ever goes to the Fiat Multipla.
Yeah, they are neck and neck.
I put them together on this pic. I still think the Mirai is uglier. In real life, it is bulbous and bigger than it looks on the picture. And those giant scoops in the front, they don't do anything at all. The car does not use air for cooling or anything. Its actually supposed to be decorative. Things have gotten weird in the Toyota design department.
PussyGalore
Meow
Yeah, they are neck and neck.
View attachment 34338
Those "scoops" are ridiculous. And I'm getting sick of this trend in car design to make them all look like wedges. What are these car designers smoking these days?
Jim of WVa
Well Known GateFan
Those "scoops" are ridiculous. And I'm getting sick of this trend in car design to make them all look like wedges. What are these car designers smoking these days?
with tailfins
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
not to disrupt the thread
but
you'd think that if these companies were so concerned about 'saving the planet" etc, they would stop developing anything other then electric and improving existing vehicles (gas efficiency,etc)
i know there is a big diff in power req's but just look at how much better stuff like rechargeable tools and mowers and chainsaws (there are up to a kick ass power 20" bar now) have gotten in the last few yrs
that is an example of product development focus
but
you'd think that if these companies were so concerned about 'saving the planet" etc, they would stop developing anything other then electric and improving existing vehicles (gas efficiency,etc)
i know there is a big diff in power req's but just look at how much better stuff like rechargeable tools and mowers and chainsaws (there are up to a kick ass power 20" bar now) have gotten in the last few yrs
that is an example of product development focus
Why? Because electricity can be produced by EVERYONE, without paying a power company. Hydrogen vehicles means that people will still be paying to fill up, and the oil companies will be the ones who end up owning any alternate fuel infrastructure...except electric. A home sitting on enough land can put up a solar array large enough to power the home and also charge an electric vehicle like a Tesla or a Volt. I am 100% positive that the oil companies do not like that.
Tripler
Well Known GateFan
Honda' s have also gone into ugly mode . But Toyota / Nissan are truly making some disgusting to look at vehicles .
How is any of those stupid angles a benefit to fuel or electric econmy . Look how smooth the lines are on a Tesla. Tesla is designed to have the least amount of drag .
My elantrash has stupid useless lines also and gets shit fuel economy .
How is any of those stupid angles a benefit to fuel or electric econmy . Look how smooth the lines are on a Tesla. Tesla is designed to have the least amount of drag .
My elantrash has stupid useless lines also and gets shit fuel economy .
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
yes, i know this, just didn't want to "bleed" the other thread we have on MMCC,etc into this. the monetization of all this is probably nearly always the first answer to any "why" question
as far as the solar stuff, a couple of things
1- why dont they put solar panels on the vehicle? like a roof. i know there is a lot of component to turning solar into electric,especially when wanting to store it, but if it is used while in motion, like direct to motor, then wouldn't it require less?
2- solar panels for home- the thing is that, from what i have read, and it probably isn't enough, it seems that many of the home use stuff is inferior product...made that way on purpose? and, when i looked into those alt electric company or those govt programs to help homeowners install solar, when i enter our zip every one of them states "it is not possible for you to generate enough electric at your location". that we dont have enough good solar days. that is BS.
and all the ppl i see on documentary, etc, who do have solar say that even on cloudy days they are able to generate some electric
like my power tool example, and again, I KNOW they are much smaller in scale/power needed, but if we can more then adequately power by the sun all the solar devices we do have already in our yard (from little ornamental stuff to big bright motion activated LED spot lights) at our latitude, then i am sure the tech can be scaled up for solar panels here
and ppl do have them here, they just pay through the nose for it
-------------------------------------
on electric vehicles. any reason why the motion of the vehicle itself cant be used to generate power? like attaching a generator to capture the energy made by turning axles and wheels? is it again, a money answer? as in, it would make an electric car too capable of self powering
Lord Ba'al
Well Known GateFan
It is bullshit indeed. Modern solar tech can generate plenty of energy even on cloudy days. There are even materials being developed now which get cooler when put in the sun. (not that that is related to energy generation) Have you checked out Solarcity?
The "laws of physics" prevent this, at least in the way I think you envision it. In a sense this is already done and has been for decades. A dynamo gets turned by the rotation of the axle and the power this generates is used to charge the car battery which provides power in order to use headlights and run the car stereo and such things. But you could never generate more power by means of this process than you'd have to put in in order to get the thing moving, that's where those pesky laws come in. You couldn't even generate the same amount of power as you put in as there's always some loss. Moving a car takes a lot of energy due to friction. The faster you go, the more energy it will take. The energy is converted into motion.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
so "an object in motion" cannot generate more energy then it is using to be in motion?
<<< you'd think i DIDN'T take a intro class in college on thermodynamics due to my ignorance on the subject, BUT YOU can probably deduce my final grade in it
>>>>so, if it can't self power this way, couldn't the existing dynamo principle be expanded to give a "head start" on re-charging when the vehicle is plugged in?
this are just questions..i am under no illusion that some very smart ppl have already thought of this stuff-- i would hope
----
ok,, well how about we at least get some self heating,self de icing windshield wiper hooked up to a low voltage current (like heat tapes on a bldg's roof)? Id settle for that!
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Lord Ba'al
Well Known GateFan
so "an object in motion" cannot generate more energy then it is using to be in motion?
<<< you'd think i DIDN'T take a into class in college on thermodynamics due to my ignorance on the subject, BUT YOU can probably deduce my final grade in it
so, if it can't self power this way, couldn't the existing dynamo principle be expanded to give a "head start" on re-charging when the vehicle is plugged in?
Exactly, you always have to put more energy in than you'd get out. Perpetuum Mobile does not exist. Unless perhaps you'd speak to a quantum physicist, coz those people think anything is possible.
I would imagine that electric cars are already using this principle by the way. Even in non-electric cars you might find this I bet. I think there's something about a fly-wheel which "captures" energy while breaking and stores it in batteries. In a gas-powered vehicle that energy could only be used to run the electric systems, but in a hybrid or fully electric model I bet the batteries which run the engines are the very same as the ones running the electric non-engine stuff.ok,, well how about we at least get some self heating,self de icing windshield wiper hooked up to a low voltage current (like heat tapes on a bldg's roof)? Id settle for that!
There have been windshields that can de-ice themselves for at least two decades using electric current. Turn it on a minute before leaving. Ice melts off the windshield. Turn on the wipers and you're good to go. Well, I guess it depends on the level of ice build-up. I knew a guy who had this feature in a Renault Megane model. That's not even really a special type of car.
PussyGalore
Meow
"In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!"
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
hmm.... well i have never seen one offered for sale. and i live in PA and spent time in way north NY state
maybe they are not allowed in the US?
IDK, be nice to have one though. a car with the same thing for headlights as well
Lord Ba'al
Well Known GateFan
It was an option package I guess when buying the car, or perhaps it came standard with the model. Or perhaps we are somehow talking about completely different things.
so "an object in motion" cannot generate more energy then it is using to be in motion?
<<< you'd think i DIDN'T take a intro class in college on thermodynamics due to my ignorance on the subject, BUT YOU can probably deduce my final grade in it
so, if it can't self power this way, couldn't the existing dynamo principle be expanded to give a "head start" on re-charging when the vehicle is plugged in?
this are just questions..i am under no illusion that some very smart ppl have already thought of this stuff-- i would hope
----
ok,, well how about we at least get some self heating,self de icing windshield wiper hooked up to a low voltage current (like heat tapes on a bldg's roof)? Id settle for that!
Well, you have something there, but this is not a physics issue, it's an efficiency issue. The car in motion with solar panels on it's roof has a net positive energy input from the Sun as it is moving under sunlight. If the battery onboard is at least an 80% retention charge, and the solar panels convert at around 80-90% of the light hitting it into electric power, we are talking a vehicle that potentially never needs to be charged (by plugging in anywhere), and if traveling in daylight, would never need to be re-charged. To achieve this, we would need much more efficient batteries capable of storing between 90-95% of the solar power sent to them for at least 90% of the original exposure time. We would need solar panels which can convert at least 90% of the light hitting it into electric power. Different materials might generate more electrons which would up the power generated as well.
We aren't there yet, but your suggestion is most certainly not impossible or unfeasible at some time in the near future.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
om1 just made my day!!
told me i "had something" in regards to a science/engineering thing
Moi?!
now all of my yrs at GF's have been validated
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
Exactly, you always have to put more energy in than you'd get out. Perpetuum Mobile does not exist. Unless perhaps you'd speak to a quantum physicist, coz those people think anything is possible.
There have been windshields that can de-ice themselves for at least two decades using electric current. Turn it on a minute before leaving. Ice melts off the windshield. Turn on the wipers and you're good to go. Well, I guess it depends on the level of ice build-up. I knew a guy who had this feature in a Renault Megane model. That's not even really a special type of car.
so whats it called when an object in motion..lets say a missile with a warhead, or even a "dumb" High explosive artillery round is used?
either one creates/releases much more energy then it took to put it in flight
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
though some americans "order" their cars to their spec based on options, many of us just buy what is on the lot
and we have been buying on avg, about year old cars for the last 3 vehicles we have had--we just refuse to pay that initial sales overhead/inflated markup on a new vehicle
so, it is probably available, i guess i am saying i have never seen it offered as a standard item on a car on the lot
i just found this after market, DIY add on kit
http://www.everblades.com/