That's sort of what I am hearing too. The acting is good and the SFX good but the plot goes into some pretty weird places.
Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi
- Thread starter Overmind One
- Start date
That's sort of what I am hearing too. The acting is good and the SFX good but the plot goes into some pretty weird places.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
retcon schmeck con
if they didn't have anything new, the stories would be completely dry and boring
even st introduced something new with every series
retcon schmeck con
if they didn't have anything new, the stories would be completely dry and boring
even st introduced something new with every series
I have no problem retconning events, and sometimes even characters (long lost relatives anyone?). But not retconning things like how the Force works and who can use it, or lightsaber designs. Some things are just not able to be put in later like that giant moon weapon in Episode VIII. It would have to have been started decades before the Rebel War. So many things.
Actually they built the Death Star in less story time (18 years) than elapsed between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens (over 30 years). So Starkiller Base is not implausible in the SW universe. If anything, because it was a planetary base as opposed to a space station the size of a moon it is a simpler build. And the variant lightsaber designs appeared in Rebels and even (IIRC) in Clone Wars. Note that the only issue the Star Wars fan community had with The Force Awakens was that its plot was derivative of the Original Star Wars. They had no issue with the new characters or the visuals.
Now with The Last Jedi they are having issues, and from what I am seeing the issues are the plot just goes into really weird places. I'm seeing it likely tonight so I'll know more then.
Now with The Last Jedi they are having issues, and from what I am seeing the issues are the plot just goes into really weird places. I'm seeing it likely tonight so I'll know more then.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
IDK, Lucas kind of opened that door way back in '77 when he had Kenobi tell Luke that 'the force is in all of us...moves through all living things (words to that extent)'
when he took on Luke he had no idea if he inherited any of Anakin's abilities, especially knowing Anakin's manner of conception
Luke was a crap shoot, even after Ben sensed he had some talent --remember, Kenobi spent like maybe 4 or 5 hrs tops with him-- Luke still had little training other then basic LS use
exactly how much time he spent trng with Yoda was still less then a jedi was to be trained. there is a retcon for this though. Pablo Hidalgo-the keeper of the SW's flame as it were-has said that Dagobah is a kind of time, no time place. A planet strong in the force where time passes in a type of time dilation--force controlled dilation that is
to me, that is a far less 'believable' retcon then crossguard LS's
ESPECIALLY given the next to non existent talk on any type of hard science in the movies (it is in some of the novels depending on the character)- then suddenly bring in the physics of time dilation to explain stuff? not buying it
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
yeah maybe, but TPTB are TPTB and what they put up on screen or, in authorized print, becomes canon
And THAT is why I was primarily a Star Trek fan and not Star Wars. Even though Abrams and Kurtzman have tried to mess with canon, the fans are rejecting the movies and Discovery and do NOT consider what happened in them canon. That dynamic may have changed now, but Star Wars was always driven by TPTB and not any sort of canon. It's a formula they preserve, not canon so much.
PussyGalore
Meow
I'll be interested in hearing your impressions of this one. Give a review when you get time please. Thanks.
Okay, I saw it.
Impressions.....
Good visuals and overall good acting - especially by Adam Driver. His Kylo Ren was the best character in the film and actually followed an arc. Daisy Ridley was ok as Rey but did not get a lot to work with. Neither did John Boyega and, surprisingly, Mark Hamill.
Plotwise....how to do this without mad spoilers...I would characterize it as VERY choppy. And also seemed to be trying to go new places just to avoid being charged with being derivative, almost like overreacting to criticism of The Force Awakens. Examples include....
Really weird film. I feel like nicknaming it Star Wars Into Darkness but it still is better than STID.
Impressions.....
Good visuals and overall good acting - especially by Adam Driver. His Kylo Ren was the best character in the film and actually followed an arc. Daisy Ridley was ok as Rey but did not get a lot to work with. Neither did John Boyega and, surprisingly, Mark Hamill.
Plotwise....how to do this without mad spoilers...I would characterize it as VERY choppy. And also seemed to be trying to go new places just to avoid being charged with being derivative, almost like overreacting to criticism of The Force Awakens. Examples include....
Kylo Ren kills Snoke and declares himself Supreme Leader after letting Rey go. Leia survives the film and the whole issue of Carrie Fisher having passed really paints the writers into a corner. Luke astral projects across the galaxy (it was weird) and then becomes a Force Ghost. Oh, and Rey turns out not to have any special lineage - she's just an ordinary schlub.
Really weird film. I feel like nicknaming it Star Wars Into Darkness but it still is better than STID.
Sounds mediocre.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
yes, choppy. but not in a distracting way
i think that if they would have just gone with the Luke and Rey, then Rey and Kylo story all on its own, then the story would have more "meat" to it and probably more satisfied customers
the who deal with the side trip to the casino place was all DISNEY input. it was totally unneeded, everything they did there could have happened off screen
the idea that Leia and her admiral chic had--the "oh damn, they can track us through hyperspace! well, hell, lets sacrifice the whole fleet we have left just so MAYBE some of our sympathizers will come to help us once we get to this old abandoned rebel base, get more ppl to help and new ships and stuff, then will show those bad guys what were mad of" line of thinking was a bit bizarre
the action on the salt planet and the 'rescue' of what is left of the resistance by the native dog like animals was also a story basically told in REBELS (when the lothal wolves-force sensitive animals-showed Ezra and crew how to get away from the imperials through a cave system)
this luke is defi, to me, and of course with the plot of Maul in rebels and his becoming a grey jedi-as had Ashoka-is basically what Luke has become.
there is another in rebels that is grey and neither sith nor jedi--the Bendu
in this subject (jedi/sith/grey), rebels defi foreshadows the events of last jedi
AND BEST OF ALL!!! C3PO was told to shut up and neither he or r2d2 get much screen time! beautiful!! [spolier/]
in total, i liked it, my son liked it as well
we can see what those 'crying' over it are upset about, but ppl change as do their perspectives--luke is not immune to this. now maybe, had he been a properly trained jedi and spent a lot of time immersed in the jedi culture -pre empire style-he would be less changed
for a analogy from history, luke holding the jedi line is like the Romano Britons being considered truly roman and the keepers of the imperial flame. they weren't and neither is luke this to the jedi. he is nothing more then a self taught remnant
the action on the salt planet and the 'rescue' of what is left of the resistance by the native dog like animals was also a story basically told in REBELS (when the lothal wolves-force sensitive animals-showed Ezra and crew how to get away from the imperials through a cave system)
this luke is defi, to me, and of course with the plot of Maul in rebels and his becoming a grey jedi-as had Ashoka-is basically what Luke has become.
there is another in rebels that is grey and neither sith nor jedi--the Bendu
in this subject (jedi/sith/grey), rebels defi foreshadows the events of last jedi
AND BEST OF ALL!!! C3PO was told to shut up and neither he or r2d2 get much screen time! beautiful!! [spolier/]
in total, i liked it, my son liked it as well
we can see what those 'crying' over it are upset about, but ppl change as do their perspectives--luke is not immune to this. now maybe, had he been a properly trained jedi and spent a lot of time immersed in the jedi culture -pre empire style-he would be less changed
for a analogy from history, luke holding the jedi line is like the Romano Britons being considered truly roman and the keepers of the imperial flame. they weren't and neither is luke this to the jedi. he is nothing more then a self taught remnant
Okay, saw it and did not like it. It's almost like Star Wars The Last Jedi drank the same poison that killed the Star Trek franchise. Wait, they did! JJ Abrams is Executive Producer on this film, and is sitting at the top of the film's food chain with complete veto power, creative control, and final approval. I believe somebody else here said he did not have anything to do with this film, and that is incorrect.
In a nutshell: This film is heavy in it's SJW message, light on continuity and a paper thin story from the writers. It's like they forgot that The Force Awakens set some threads in motion that were never resolved in TLJ, and they never resolved them. Kylo Ren and Rey in this film were like anchors weighing the story down in my opinion. And BB-8 at some point was being petted like a dog (can he even feel it?). The new Empire stand-in The First Order has crushed the "resistance", and it does not look good for the future. Snoke is dead, but nobody talks about how he came to power or who he was or how he acquired his position as the top bad guy. Kylo Ren is now trying to lure Rey to the Dark Side...why? It just makes no sense.
I am not one of the viewers who liked this film (obviously). This film kinda has already dinged Episode IX before it has even been written, because it is telling a story already ruined by The Force Awakens and now The Last Jedi. Sadly, the same lack of writing and vision that killed Star Trek has also killed Star Wars in my opinion. The way they changed and ended Luke was just no. This is possibly the worst Star Wars film ever made, even worse than all three of the prequels (in writing). I actually like the prequels I do understand why Star Wars fans don't like them, but I did. This one, not so much. And I did not like The Force Awakens either.
In a nutshell: This film is heavy in it's SJW message, light on continuity and a paper thin story from the writers. It's like they forgot that The Force Awakens set some threads in motion that were never resolved in TLJ, and they never resolved them. Kylo Ren and Rey in this film were like anchors weighing the story down in my opinion. And BB-8 at some point was being petted like a dog (can he even feel it?). The new Empire stand-in The First Order has crushed the "resistance", and it does not look good for the future. Snoke is dead, but nobody talks about how he came to power or who he was or how he acquired his position as the top bad guy. Kylo Ren is now trying to lure Rey to the Dark Side...why? It just makes no sense.
I am not one of the viewers who liked this film (obviously). This film kinda has already dinged Episode IX before it has even been written, because it is telling a story already ruined by The Force Awakens and now The Last Jedi. Sadly, the same lack of writing and vision that killed Star Trek has also killed Star Wars in my opinion. The way they changed and ended Luke was just no. This is possibly the worst Star Wars film ever made, even worse than all three of the prequels (in writing). I actually like the prequels
I do understand why Star Wars fans don't like them, but I did. This one, not so much. And I did not like The Force Awakens either.
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That is like taking the line "Where no man has gone before", and then making a Star Trek film which has the Enterprise traveling to Wonkaland because no Star Trek ever went there before. They have ruined the Force in The Force Awakens and now The Last Jedi. Surprisingly, they did not ruin it in Rogue One.
Yoda spent lots more time than that with Luke, and he got some serious training which we all saw in the film, even though it was incomplete.
I don't get why the Star Wars franchise has it's fans wandering around in books and animated TV series just to get answers to stuff they see in the movies. Well, other than getting you to spend time watching everything Star Wars (ad revenue, subscription fees). If it wasn't expained in the previous movies, I should not be expected to watch Rebels or The Clone Wars to answer questions about stuff I saw in The Force Awakens or The Last Jedi.
to me, that is a far less 'believable' retcon then crossguard LS's
This stinks of JJ Abrams doing his "well in MY Star Wars...." thing. I wonder just how far the SW franchise will have to go down this dirt road to disappoint you.
Perhaps have Rey unzip her disguise and reveal that she is actually a young wookie who turns out to be Chewbacca's long lost daughter? 
Actually JJ Abrams was not involved here. It is written and directed by Rian Johnson.
Yes the SJW elements were heavy and dragged down the film. Also, the writing seemed to be trying too hard to be different and as a result made for a choppy story. And I heartily agree a lot of the script elements made no sense (like Leia doing her Mary Poppins act). And I agree Luke was badly handled.
I liked The Force Awakens more than you even while admitting it was derivative. It set up good characters and left some good stories to resolve. The Last Jedi basically failed to build on or resolve those stories. It also failed largely to service the new characters. The way Rey was handled left me wondering if they are holding back because Daisy Ridley can't act or if there is something else going on. Really Kylo Ren was the only actor in the film who did well and and that was likely because he was actually given things to do.
That all said, it is still better than the horrid prequels. They were a noxious stew of overdone CGI, cringeworthy acting and writing both illogical and so bad on the characters that they do not feel real.
Yes the SJW elements were heavy and dragged down the film. Also, the writing seemed to be trying too hard to be different and as a result made for a choppy story. And I heartily agree a lot of the script elements made no sense (like Leia doing her Mary Poppins act). And I agree Luke was badly handled.
I liked The Force Awakens more than you even while admitting it was derivative. It set up good characters and left some good stories to resolve. The Last Jedi basically failed to build on or resolve those stories. It also failed largely to service the new characters. The way Rey was handled left me wondering if they are holding back because Daisy Ridley can't act or if there is something else going on. Really Kylo Ren was the only actor in the film who did well and and that was likely because he was actually given things to do.
That all said, it is still better than the horrid prequels. They were a noxious stew of overdone CGI, cringeworthy acting and writing both illogical and so bad on the characters that they do not feel real.
PussyGalore
Meow
Well, it will be a few months before I see this one, lol. Not gonna go to the theater, especially after reading these reviews.
JJ Abrams is the Executive Producer of this film. He is Rian Johnson's boss, and had final approval of the film over all the writers and other producers. I looked it up.
My jaw dropped when I saw Leia flying through space with the force glow around her. Then I facepalmed.
I think The Force Awakens was a better film than this one, but I liked Rogue One better than both these films. About Rey, it's really a mystery that they are focusing on her now that we know her parents were just nobodies. Doing that reveal in the movie was a mistake IMO. I think it might have been nice to have Rey be related to a prominent family or character (like the Obi Wan theory). You might be right about Daisy Ridley! Kylo Ren, although well acted, is just not doing it for me as a villain. But he is a fun character.
Okay, I won't argue about the prequels, because I mostly agree! But I still include them in my Star Wars rewatches (in order of release, not numerical order). BTW, it is interesting to watch A New Hope then The Force Awakens right after.
Go out and use that money to get something you wont regret spending it on! Of course, you will have to see the film.
I would have watched it no matter how bad the reviews are, just because it's Star Wars. But going to the theater to see it? Nah.
PussyGalore
Meow
Wait, what???
Yep, they did that. The moment felt....bizarre. It was one of the most wtf moments in the film.
Twalet Brash
GateFans Member
JJ Abrams is the Executive Producer of this film. He is Rian Johnson's boss, and had final approval of the film over all the writers and other producers. I looked it up.
My jaw dropped when I saw Leia flying through space with the force glow around her. Then I facepalmed.
I think The Force Awakens was a better film than this one, but I liked Rogue One better than both these films. About Rey, it's really a mystery that they are focusing on her now that we know her parents were just nobodies. Doing that reveal in the movie was a mistake IMO. I think it might have been nice to have Rey be related to a prominent family or character (like the Obi Wan theory). You might be right about Daisy Ridley! Kylo Ren, although well acted, is just not doing it for me as a villain. But he is a fun character.
Okay, I won't argue about the prequels, because I mostly agree! But I still include them in my Star Wars rewatches (in order of release, not numerical order). BTW, it is interesting to watch A New Hope then The Force Awakens right after.
You know as well as anyone who's familiar with Hollywood that the title of Executive Producer is just a handjob title to get some bucks and a credit. JJ was completely absent from this movie.