Sci-fi elements

[mzzz]

Gonna spoiler some science (some cool chemistry stuff)/math pics but that's not what the topic is:

Spoiler

Alright, now for the topic. Basically, discuss any sci-fi element you've had interesting thoughts about or insights. For example:

1. When Trek ships are in 'warp', I'm guessing they're doing the whole bending of spacetime thing. But that means they're outside of local spacetime. However, there is still time passage when they're in warp. So it seems that within the Trek universe, there exists at least two 'timelines' so to speak. One within warp and the other in normal spacetime. Feel free to correct me though if I'm missing technical knowledge regarding Trek science. This is just from my naive observations.

2. I think I stated this earlier but for the life of me, I can't find what thread I wrote this on. It's that Trek ships and other sci-fi spaceships must have ftl capable communications. Not only that, it would be several multiples above ftl. This would allow a whole plethora of new kinds of space warfare, crew complement reduction, automation capabilities, etc.

3. They don't ever really address sentience regarding holograms rigorously. But personally, I think a lot of the holograms are sentient in many ways. That, to me, is basically creation of life (outside of the usual biological process).

4. I honestly think with all the technology presented in Trek (replicators, deep level of trek 'physics' understanding, teleportation, etc.), the people in Trek truly should have achieved immortality. Even with just teleportation you have immortality. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't teleportation essentially store the pattern (information of the particles and makeup of an individual) then transport it and reconstruct the person according to the information? So wouldn't a person, in essence, be able to live for a long time? I mean they even sorta had that in Atlantis with the Wraith ships beam thing. And this is all disregarding all the magical bio-sciences they've demonstrated in Trek. They should be able to replicate new healthy organs to replace aging ones and replenish the blood supply by making new ones from base stem cells. There are just so many options for them to achieve immortality.

That's all I got for now. Hopefully, this will lead to a discussion since there isn't much sci-fi on tv to talk about.

 

[shavedape]

Didn't they use a fictional construct, "sub-space", to broadcast communications through? If I remember correctly there is no theoretical concept for such a thing, rather, it was simply made up by the ST writers. I could be mistaken here of course, but that's what I thought I had heard in the past.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Didn't they use a fictional construct, "sub-space", to broadcast communications through? If I remember correctly there is no theoretical concept for such a thing, rather, it was simply made up by the ST writers. I could be mistaken here of course, but that's what I thought I had heard in the past.

You are right Shaved, communication is done via subspace, and it has no real world theoretical counterpart, except for a crystal ball............

 

[shavedape]

You are right Shaved, communication is done via subspace, and it has no real world theoretical counterpart, except for a crystal ball............

 

[ParagonPie]

I think I remember watching something about how (what they dubbed as) hyperspace could be used as a method of interstellar/galactic communications, since obviously you'd have to get around the natural bodies such as stars, black holes and Oprah.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Gonna spoiler some science (some cool chemistry stuff)/math pics but that's not what the topic is:

Alright, now for the topic. Basically, discuss any sci-fi element you've had interesting thoughts about or insights. For example:

1. When Trek ships are in 'warp', I'm guessing they're doing the whole bending of spacetime thing. But that means they're outside of local spacetime. However, there is still time passage when they're in warp. So it seems that within the Trek universe, there exists at least two 'timelines' so to speak. One within warp and the other in normal spacetime. Feel free to correct me though if I'm missing technical knowledge regarding Trek science. This is just from my naive observations.

They were actually quite good at following the warp space theory. The passage of time is not affected in warp travel because there is no movement, theoretically. The ship is static but space is moving around it by shortening it in front and stretching it out in back. This doesn't violate Einstein's relativity theory because, although the ship gets to its destination at several times the speed of light, it is not actually traveling at that speed at all.

 

[shavedape]

They were actually quite good at following the warp space theory. The passage of time is not affected in warp travel because there is no movement, theoretically. The ship is static but space is moving around it by shortening it in front and stretching it out in back. This doesn't violate Einstein's relativity theory because, although the ship gets to its destination at several times the speed of light, it is not actually traveling at that speed at all.

This post should be a "sticky". I like how it's concise and easy to understand for everyone. :encouragement:



(Now give us your take on "sub-space communications". )

 

[Gatefan1976]

Damn stoners............

 

[mzzz]

Didn't they use a fictional construct, "sub-space", to broadcast communications through? If I remember correctly there is no theoretical concept for such a thing, rather, it was simply made up by the ST writers. I could be mistaken here of course, but that's what I thought I had heard in the past.

I think I remember watching something about how (what they dubbed as) hyperspace could be used as a method of interstellar/galactic communications, since obviously you'd have to get around the natural bodies such as stars, black holes and Oprah.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Subspace_communication
Yeah, it is subspace communication. Basically magic.

They were actually quite good at following the warp space theory. The passage of time is not affected in warp travel because there is no movement, theoretically. The ship is static but space is moving around it by shortening it in front and stretching it out in back. This doesn't violate Einstein's relativity theory because, although the ship gets to its destination at several times the speed of light, it is not actually traveling at that speed at all.

Memory Alpha says "Warp drive was a technology that allowed space travel at faster-than-light speeds. It worked by generating warp fields to form a subspace bubble that enveloped the starship, distorting the local spacetime continuum and moving the starship at velocities that could greatly exceed the speed of light. These velocities were referred to as warp factors."

Ahh, I see what you're saying. Spacetime isn't really spacetime in Trek. They don't go hand in hand, they're treated as separate entities, space and time. Hence the allowed creation of subspace. Relativity isn't really adhered to, in that sense, since GR has space and time interwoven together as spacetime.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Correct, but the problem with warp fields working in such a way is that there is no need for the trademark visual "warp effect" of ST, you should pretty much be able to go from any velocity (or no velocity) to "warp space" as soon as the field is established as you never move in you local environment.

 

[mzzz]

To me, teleporters sort of render spaceships obsolete. You can set up a sort of set of relay stations like in SGA. Have a bunch of teleporters seeded in the Trek universe and just send things that way. FTL level of communication would render normal wait time insignificant in each relay station. SGA's one took what 30 minutes? between galaxies. I think if Trek really hardcore researched, improved, and expanded on a teleporter relay type system throughout their galaxy, it would probably be faster than warp drives. Hard to find the energy requirements though. But consider this, sometimes the Federation are given tasks to transport this and that or this delegate or whatnot. If they had a relay system, it'd resolve those kind of escort/transport type services. I don't know if that made sense. I couldn't find anything on the energy requirements, but my thinking is that it takes more energy to implement the warp drive rather than teleport. But then again, given the number of transporter malfunctions and dumbasses like that Asian guy in Voyager, hmmm.

I wish I could help design a new Trek tv series. I'd probably have that kind of relay system and force spaceships to be used for bigger missions or basically what Trek was mostly about in the early days, ventures into the unknown, places where relay systems haven't been established. The relay systems would sort of get bigger too as in able to transport building materials or, better worded, assembly materials. When you build something, you usually try to build off of smaller components and assemble them. Maybe they can sort of do this on a larger scale.

 

[Gatefan1976]

To me, teleporters sort of render spaceships obsolete. You can set up a sort of set of relay stations like in SGA. Have a bunch of teleporters seeded in the Trek universe and just send things that way.

The problem with this is, Are you *you* when you come out of a ST teleporter?
A teleporter in essence converts your biological pattern to a computer data stream, transmits that information to point B and then re-constitutes you on the other end. Is the matter when you are reconstituted the *same* matter as before, or is it pulled out of the local area, therefore making it more like a replicator without the need for a "replicator bay". If that is the case, you would not technically be you anymore, but a clone. IF that is the case, your original idea that you would be effectively immortal is correct, any disease or ailment could be corrected by altering the "damaged part" of the pattern with previous "files" of healthy examples of your own "code"

Stargate gets around this to a degree by instead using "matter streams"

FTL level of communication would render normal wait time insignificant in each relay station. SGA's one took what 30 minutes? between galaxies.

30 mins to go from Atlantis, be shunted along the gatebridge and to finally appear in the SGC, correct.

I think if Trek really hardcore researched, improved, and expanded on a teleporter relay type system throughout their galaxy, it would probably be faster than warp drives. Hard to find the energy requirements though. But consider this, sometimes the Federation are given tasks to transport this and that or this delegate or whatnot. If they had a relay system, it'd resolve those kind of escort/transport type services. I don't know if that made sense. I couldn't find anything on the energy requirements, but my thinking is that it takes more energy to implement the warp drive rather than teleport. But then again, given the number of transporter malfunctions and dumbasses like that Asian guy in Voyager, hmmm.

Warp drive requires dark matter (at least the ones we are considering), I don't know how much energy would be needed for interplanetary or intergalactic transport.

I wish I could help design a new Trek tv series. I'd probably have that kind of relay system and force spaceships to be used for bigger missions or basically what Trek was mostly about in the early days, ventures into the unknown, places where relay systems haven't been established. The relay systems would sort of get bigger too as in able to transport building materials or, better worded, assembly materials. When you build something, you usually try to build off of smaller components and assemble them. Maybe they can sort of do this on a larger scale.

That's handled by industrial replicators in ST.

 

[ParagonPie]

The mention of an intergalactic transportation/relay system, well in Trek that has been done. Twice actually. Scotty's new and improved transporter equation (as long as you have the coordinates you can go there), and the Iconian gateway system. So it is within the realms of possibility of such technology being deployed and used within Star Trek.

When I mentioned hyperspace, I heard it in a Michio Kaku video once when talking about how would intergalactic civilizations communicate.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Do they ever mention how the Iconians work their system??

 

[ParagonPie]

If a group of rebel Jem Ha'dar can figure it out, I'm sure the wise minds of Starfleet can.

 

[Gatefan1976]

If a group of rebel Jem Ha'dar can figure it out, I'm sure the wise minds of Starfleet can.

I was more talking about weather it was a data stream or a matter stream

 

[Bluce Ree]

This post should be a "sticky". I like how it's concise and easy to understand for everyone. :encouragement:



(Now give us your take on "sub-space communications". )

I have a hard time explaining non-science based scifi (stuff they make up based on absolutely nothing).

 

[Bluce Ree]

Warp drive requires dark matter (at least the ones we are considering), I don't know how much energy would be needed for interplanetary or intergalactic transport.

Dark matter? Dark matter is a general term used to describe matter they can't see or account for in space, not a particular class of matter.
When they refer to dark matter they're actually referring to the black areas in space where they detect energy and gravity with no visible or other detectable manifestation.

The latest theory is that the amount of energy needed to warp space would be equivalent to the mass of Jupiter. Apparently, though, some physicist in NASA has shown that it could be done with far less energy.

 

[shavedape]

I have a hard time explaining non-science based scifi (stuff they make up based on absolutely nothing).

Then don't explain it, rather, debunk it. :encouragement:

 

[shavedape]

Dark matter? Dark matter is a general term used to describe matter they can't see or account for in space, not a particular class of matter.
When they refer to dark matter they're actually referring to the black areas in space where they detect energy and gravity with no visible or other detectable manifestation.

The latest theory is that the amount of energy needed to warp space would be equivalent to the mass of Jupiter. Apparently, though, some physicist in NASA has shown that it could be done with far less energy.

Just curious but why would size matter in this regard? A speck of dust "warps" the space around it the same way Jupiter does, just on a smaller scale, does it not? (And I would assume this applies to "dark matter" too.) Correct me if I'm wrong but basically all matter puts out an electromagnetic field and therefore exerts a gravitational effect on surrounding matter (and vice versa). For instance, our bodies have an electromagnetic field that exerts a gravitational pull on the Earth, but the Earth has one also and, being larger, it overwhelms the one our bodies put out. But nonetheless, our bodies exert a gravitational pull on surrounding matter the same as a speck of dust or a planet or a can of beans, yada yada yada.

In effect matter, regardless of size, warps the surrounding space to some degree. Here are some examples of what I mean. Notice the moon is warping the space it sits in the same way the earth does.

So, again, my question is, unless you're a debauched queen, why does size matter?