Ratings II

[shavedape]

I'm not really disagreeing with you vehemently here, so don't take it that way, but I think a few things need to be pointed out.

I haven't listened to the podcast but your comment brings up a good point. The arrival of SGU caused many to try and downplay the quality of Atlantis/SG1, to the point where it was presented as a fact that Universe was the better show. Equally though the response to to that has led to Atlantis being put on a pedestal, it being the image of this great show that was lost. To me that seems just as bad as it ignores the large amount of criticism the show faced in its final years and the myriad of issues it had.

When someone dies (or something in this case) it is natural to forget the bad things, remember the good things and to deify that entity. That's just human nature, we do that all the time. SGA wasn't a work of art and it had its lame moments, but overall it was liked and appreciated by Stargate fans. The problem comes in with the confluence of the cancellation of SGA and the birth of SGU. The new show was so radically different in style and tone and characterizations from the other Stargate shows that it was shocking. I think the premature cancellation of SGA would have gone over better had SGU been more of the type of Stargate show that fans were used to (and expecting). That's when people started to protest against the radical shift in the Stargate world and naturally putting SGA on a pedestal was bound to happen. It became the martyr for the cause and was no longer a show that had campy moments or bad episodes but rather was a shining example of how great Stargate had been. Like I said, it's natural for people to take such a view. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's how it is.

Still I don't really understand the need to place emphasis on one over the other anyway. They're all made by the same people, set in the same universe and feature a lot of the same characters. It's not like we're looking at different people's visions of the Stargate idea.

Made by the same people yes, but both radically different in tone, style, characterization and story telling. SGA represents the Stargate of old which is what many fans want so naturally they are going to use it as an example of what they want to see again. It's the perfect contrast to that which they revile, SGU, so it's natural that it would be used as a cudgel in the Stargate war of attrition.

 

[stclare]

Serenity S, we need to fight the power not be the power (can you imagine the strees if you were in power???)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WHe5fxS3dA

 

[Mr. A]

Season 4 was great, the best, imo. Makes you wonder why the total viewers went from like 1.7 Million to 2.2 Million by the end of Season 4, going into Season 5. The last few eps of Season 4 were just epic and how a season should end.

The reason the ratings increased (back) to 2.2 Million was not because the show "improved" IMO but just a rebound after fans had gotten over Beckett and Weir being killed off and poorly replaced.
Having said that, I agree with BG78 and we are in a minority here in thinking that SGA Season 4 was one of the best ones of Stargate. Sure, I hated Keller taking over Beckett's position (even as Rodney's "buddy") and Carter being even more useless that Weir, and I think they started some very bad story lines such as the kidnapping of the Athosians as Rac80 also pointed out, but all that is counterbalanced by some really amazing episodes, e.g. the trilogy TMC/BAMSR/SoW, Adrift/Lifeline and Last Man.

More viewers isn't equivalent to rising quality though. Wasn't season 4 the one where they didn't have a mid-season break? Still people don't need to go back and pretend Atlantis was better than it was to put down Universe, just like people don't need to put it down to hype up Universe. And there's way too much of both going on.

Regardless though the argument "my show has more viewers than another show so it's of higher quality" is just a silly as "my show has a higher budget and more experienced actors so it's of higher quality".

While this certainly is true when comparing different shows from different genres (see DWTS and American Idol) because the masses aren't into high quality or sci-fi for that matter, there is a greater correlation within a genre (e.g. when comparing SG to ST to BSG, or even SGA to SGU), and ratings might very well equal quality within a series (e.g. S1 and S2 of SGA), since fans will tune in and out according to whether they appreciate the direction the series they already enjoy is going - although other factors also play a role. So BG78's argument for changes in viewership numbers reflecting the quality of the season of a certain show has some validity IMO.

 

[Briangate78]

More viewers isn't equivalent to rising quality though. Wasn't season 4 the one where they didn't have a mid-season break? Still people don't need to go back and pretend Atlantis was better than it was to put down Universe, just like people don't need to put it down to hype up Universe. And there's way too much of both going on.

Regardless though the argument "my show has more viewers than another show so it's of higher quality" is just a silly as "my show has a higher budget and more experienced actors so it's of higher quality".

not talking about quality. I'm talking about what people find appealing or not. When ratings maintain or rise it means they have a steady audience and people are sticking with the program. When you have a show that loses more than half of their audience it means people are losing interest. Why do I say this? Because if SGU was moved to whatever spot, the DVR would of picked up that change in day. How come SGU's DVR numbers have also been going down and not making up the lost live viewers? It means people stopped watching it.

I'm not putting SGA on a friggin pedestal, if anything SG-1 deserves to be on top, with SGA right below it, when with SGU way below SGA. But that is my opinion.

The reason the ratings increased (back) to 2.2 Million was not because the show "improved" IMO but just a rebound after fans had gotten over Beckett and Weir being killed off and poorly replaced.
Having said that, I agree with BG78 and we are in a minority here in thinking that SGA Season 4 was one of the best ones of Stargate. Sure, I hated Keller taking over Beckett's position (even as Rodney's "buddy") and Carter being even more useless that Weir, and I think they started some very bad story lines such as the kidnapping of the Athosians as Rac80 also pointed out, but all that is counterbalanced by some really amazing episodes, e.g. the trilogy TMC/BAMSR/SoW, Adrift/Lifeline and Last Man.

Ratings 101 dude, if people like what they are watching they will be back for more, if they don't like it they stop watching. The show improving is just an opinion of course.

 

[Overmind One]

Thats why people respect what you say on boards.

not talking about quality. I'm talking about what people find appealing or not. When ratings maintain or rise it means they have a steady audience and people are sticking with the program. When you have a show that loses more than half of their audience it means people are losing interest. Why do I say this? Because if SGU was moved to whatever spot, the DVR would of picked up that change in day. How come SGU's DVR numbers have also been going down and not making up the lost live viewers? It means people stopped watching it.

I'm not putting SGA on a friggin pedestal, if anything SG-1 deserves to be on top, with SGA right below it, when with SGU way below SGA. But that is my opinion.

Ratings 101 dude, if people like what they are watching they will be back for more, if they don't like it they stop watching. The show improving is just an opinion of course.

See, THAT is what I like about your posts. You look at it logically and analytically. Sure, quality is nce but it doesnt make ratings. Not by itself. The WHOLE PACKAGE needs to be appealing, or at least most of it. If it isnt, then the esoteric little groups that do like it are going to be disappointed because the producers are NOT catering to them, they are trying to snare the mainstream. SGU was supposed to do that, not shrink its audience down to a coffee shop poetry reading crowd.

 

[Briangate78]

See, THAT is what I like about your posts. You look at it logically and analytically. Sure, quality is nce but it doesnt make ratings. Not by itself. The WHOLE PACKAGE needs to be appealing, or at least most of it. If it isnt, then the esoteric little groups that do like it are going to be disappointed because the producers are NOT catering to them, they are trying to snare the mainstream. SGU was supposed to do that, not shrink its audience down to a coffee shop poetry reading crowd.

I know some folks did not care for SGA towards the last couple of eps, but when Season 4 aired, DVR had reared it's ugly head. People went at me, saying it was excuses and even had myself mocked by one of the GW members. Now Live+7 DVR is a major factor that has been proven to impact ratings. So it was a legit excuse. SGA had not lost viewers they were watching at different times, which had been proven with the DVR.

It kinda sucks, because shows like "Fringe" are on the bubble. Not because of lack of viewership, but lack of "Live" viewership. I truly hope the networks and ad companies can work out something, or TV will just be added with more reality shows.

 

[heisenberg]

Pretty Little Liars (ABCF, 8pm)
- 2.688 million viewers
- 1.9/3 HH
- 1.0/3 A18-49
- 2.3/7 W18-34
- 3.8/12 T12-17
Greek (ABCF)
- 0.889 million viewers
- 0.6/1 HH
- 0.5/1 A18-49
- 1.1/3 W18-34
- 0.7/2 T12-17
Heavy (A&E)
- 1.417 million viewers
- 0.9/2 HH
- 0.7/2 A18-49
Bethenny Ever After (BRAVO)
- 1.500 million viewers
- 1.1/2 HH
- 0.8/2 A18-49
Fashion Police: 2011 Oscars (E!)
- 1.594 million viewers
- 1.2/2 HH
- 0.7/2 A18-49
Skins (MTV)
- 1.170 million viewers
- 0.9/2 HH
- 0.5/1 A18-49
- 0.8/3 W18-34
- 1.6/6 T12-17
Bad Girls Club: Flo Gets Married (OXYG, 9pm)
- 0.859 million viewers
- 0.6/1 HH
- 0.4/1 A18-49
Being Human (SYFY, 9pm, 61 minutes)
- 1.407 million viewers
- 0.9/1 HH
- 0.6/2 A18-49
Cake Boss (TLC, 9pm)
- 1.930 million viewers
- 1.2/2 HH
- 0.8/2 A18-49
Lizard Lick Towing (TRU)
- 1.789 million viewers
- 1.1/2 HH
- 0.7/2 A18-49
All Worked Up (TRU, 10:30pm)
- 1.655 million viewers
- 1.0/2 HH
- 0.7/2 A18-49
Adventure Time (TOON)
- 1.981 million viewers
- 1.2/2 HH
- 0.3/1 A18-49
- 1.4/5 T12-17
- 2.9/10 K2-11
Mad (TOON)
- 2.040 million viewers
- 1.3/2 HH
- 0.3/1 A18-49
- 1.7/6 T12-17
- 3.0/10 K2-11
Regular Show (TOON, 8:30pm)
- 1.868 million viewers
- 1.2/2 HH
- 0.2/1 A18-49
- 1.7/6 T12-17
- 2.7/9 K2-11
WWE Raw (USA, 9pm)
- 5.599 million viewers
- 3.3/5 HH
- 2.1/6 A18-49
WWE Raw (USA, 10pm, 71 minutes)
- 5.610 million viewers
- 3.3/6 HH
- 2.2/6 A18-49
You’re Cut Off (VH1)
- 0.761 million viewers
- 0.5/1 HH
- 0.4/1 A18-49
The X-Life (VH1)
- 0.376 million viewers
- 0.3/0 HH
- 0.2/1 A18-49
-

FAIL


http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...rise-pretty-little-liars-cake-boss-more/84108

 

[Mr. A]

FAIL

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...rise-pretty-little-liars-cake-boss-more/84108

What failed, Heisenberg?

 

[heisenberg]

What failed, Heisenberg?

WWE getting 5 million+ and pretty little liars getting 2 million +

 

[Rac80]

See, THAT is what I like about your posts. You look at it logically and analytically. Sure, quality is nce but it doesnt make ratings. Not by itself. The WHOLE PACKAGE needs to be appealing, or at least most of it. If it isnt, then the esoteric little groups that do like it are going to be disappointed because the producers are NOT catering to them, they are trying to snare the mainstream. SGU was supposed to do that, not shrink its audience down to a coffee shop poetry reading crowd.

Now I have a mental image of a bunch of teen angsty emos with greasey hair and those skinny jeans reading bad poetry with a little sob in their voices!

I know some folks did not care for SGA towards the last couple of eps, but when Season 4 aired, DVR had reared it's ugly head. People went at me, saying it was excuses and even had myself mocked by one of the GW members. Now Live+7 DVR is a major factor that has been proven to impact ratings. So it was a legit excuse. SGA had not lost viewers they were watching at different times, which had been proven with the DVR.

It kinda sucks, because shows like "Fringe" are on the bubble. Not because of lack of viewership, but lack of "Live" viewership. I truly hope the networks and ad companies can work out something, or TV will just be added with more reality shows.

I didn't want to imply that sga was not doing well, I just didn't like the final season to season and a half. but overall it had appeal- a great premise, characters that were appealing, and actors that could (and often did!) rise above the material they were given.

 

[stclare]

they didnt have any choice but to rose above the writting

the whole thing was total mismangement and egos writting checks there minds couldnt cash.

 

[YoshiKart64]

I'm not really disagreeing with you vehemently here, so don't take it that way, but I think a few things need to be pointed out.



When someone dies (or something in this case) it is natural to forget the bad things, remember the good things and to deify that entity. That's just human nature, we do that all the time. SGA wasn't a work of art and it had its lame moments, but overall it was liked and appreciated by Stargate fans. The problem comes in with the confluence of the cancellation of SGA and the birth of SGU. The new show was so radically different in style and tone and characterizations from the other Stargate shows that it was shocking. I think the premature cancellation of SGA would have gone over better had SGU been more of the type of Stargate show that fans were used to (and expecting). That's when people started to protest against the radical shift in the Stargate world and naturally putting SGA on a pedestal was bound to happen. It became the martyr for the cause and was no longer a show that had campy moments or bad episodes but rather was a shining example of how great Stargate had been. Like I said, it's natural for people to take such a view. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's how it is.



Made by the same people yes, but both radically different in tone, style, characterization and story telling. SGA represents the Stargate of old which is what many fans want so naturally they are going to use it as an example of what they want to see again. It's the perfect contrast to that which they revile, SGU, so it's natural that it would be used as a cudgel in the Stargate war of attrition.

Very good points here.

In fact the lattermost paragraph highlights how I seem to differ from a lot of Stargate fans. For me I just see Stargate Universe as the latest show in the franchise while others see it as this totally separate entity from the concepts that encapsulated SG1/SGA. I guess live and let live only really works when everything is allowed to live (in this case Atlantis and Universe).

 

[Rac80]

don't forget Stargate:infinity...if sgpoo counts then infinity does...it was actually better than the poo!

 

[Briangate78]

Syfy has closed the doors so hard on SGU, you will likely not even see reruns air after the final 10 eps are done. Maybe they will air the occasional marathon, but even those I doubt we will see. SGU is basically a tax write off to Syfy, in the loss of income column.

 

[heisenberg]

Syfy has closed the doors so hard on SGU, you will likely not even see reruns air after the final 10 eps are done. Maybe they will air the occasional marathon, but even those I doubt we will see. SGU is basically a tax write off to Syfy, in the loss of income column.

Ouch!

 

[Overmind One]

Yep, MGM feels the same way.

Syfy has closed the doors so hard on SGU, you will likely not even see reruns air after the final 10 eps are done. Maybe they will air the occasional marathon, but even those I doubt we will see. SGU is basically a tax write off to Syfy, in the loss of income column.

Yep, and the person I know in the MGM accounting office in Century City told me only that the production company (Stargate Universe Productions) had been "taken off the books". Why is Brad holding onto hope that MGM will greenlight an SGU movie?

 

[Atlantis]

@Heisenberg Actually that's a different Wrestling show , You are talking about WWE RAW which is not shown on ScyFy but it's shown on 'USA Network'

The one that's shown on ScyFy is WWE Smackdown (I know they are all the same)

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2011/0307/537211/

 

[Tropicana]

When will we find out the ratings for last night's SGU episode? Wednesday?

 

[heisenberg]

When will we find out the ratings for last night's SGU episode? Wednesday?

should be avaliable in about 10-13 hours time...Can't actually give a perfect timing when the ratings are going to come out.It all depends on when they release them.

Yep, and the person I know in the MGM accounting office in Century City told me only that the production company (Stargate Universe Productions) had been "taken off the books". Why is Brad holding onto hope that MGM will greenlight an SGU movie?

Okay, it's even more serious than I thought it would be...

 

[Tropicana]

should be avaliable in about 10-13 hours time...Can't actually give a perfect timing when the ratings are going to come out.It all depends on when they release them.

I will be awaiting for the results!