Question

[stclare]

Ya know, I have to tip my hat off to you. I've never seen anyone champion a cause like this with such passion and disgust. Although I feel the same, I'm just not able to articulate it as eloquently as you do and with such a plethora of facts and numbers at hand. I think nearly everyone here will agree.

You got my vote, brother.

OM1 for President (of SGU Sucks).

Here, here :sgusucks:

 

[Overmind One]

No, I cant accept! But thank you for your support anyways.

Ya know, I have to tip my hat off to you. I've never seen anyone champion a cause like this with such passion and disgust. Although I feel the same, I'm just not able to articulate it as eloquently as you do and with such a plethora of facts and numbers at hand. I think nearly everyone here will agree.

You got my vote, brother.

OM1 for President (of SGU Sucks).

I am a fan, no doubt about that. I also take my science fiction media seriously (like so many of us here do). I actually cheer outloud for my heroes in SG-1 and also Atlantis. I grin and laugh and feel sorrow and anxiety, and I go through that gate with those characters (not really, Im not a schizo, but you know what I mean! ) Before I write stuff like that, I have already gotten to a point in my head. I see others here do that to...even you! Then, I try to write out what Im feeling in the clearest possible way, then I go back and correct typos if I can catch them before somebody quotes them

But I hate it when people choose to say something is unknown or waffle the meaning of cold hard data. Thats why Major Davis and those ultra-rabid SGU fans get under my skin. They seem like the type of people who would go to the Magic Castle magicians club in Hollywood, then after the show you hear them saying stuff like,

Squeeboi: "Well, I know its a magician's club, but who is to say whether he really is a wizard?"
Othersquee: "I know. Since nobody else in the room could figure out how it was done, then perhaps he is really a wizard in real life hiding in this club".
Squeeboi: "Until I can figure out if its a trick, I believe he is really a wizard and can do magic"
Othersquee: " "Me too. Who is to say he isnt?"

 

[Robbie_Rocket_Pants]

I've already mentioned this but I really don't think that's true. Most of the people I talk to on Gateworld were fans before SGU.
Plus I still don't think anyone can comment on who the audience of SGU is made up of - The majority of Stargate fans don't use forums or go to conventions - there's no way to measure their response.

The majority of Stargate fans may not do those two things you mention but the most loyal & invested fans do. Have you been to a convention? because I have & of the people (total strangers) I randomly spoke to regarding SGU (& there were alot of them) not a single one actually said they liked SGU & most winced at the mention of the show & said it was dross - one girl said her boyfriend likes it (he oddly wasn't at the con, strange that).

Within any gathering like that, it is a cross section of the fandom from every possible demographic so is indeed a very good way to measure the response of the fandom - by survey/statistics (plus they are at a convention so they clearly take it very seriously & are devoted fans).

I would say my little survey/statistic is pretty accurate & also fairly telling about the overall feeling towards SGUnrelated within the Stargate fandom.

For all we know the audience is made up mainly of Stargate fans and the show has dropped those more casual viewers who preferred the lighter tone of Atlantis.

I think you mean "those more casual viewers who preferred the lighter tone of Atlantis & SG-1 have dropped the show"................ ergo most of the original fanbase.

 

[Gatefan1976]

You seem to be saying that I agree with people being "shafted" without deserving it, and that is so far from being the case it's out of this world. Often times, I've been one of the first people to defend the rights of even an abrasive pro-SGU person that has come here. I believe in treating people fairly, and I think I have a pretty good track-record of that. :icon_e_wink:

When have I unfairly shafted or targeted anyone? That's not my style, buddy. Not at all. Usually when a complete troll, idiotic, and/or deluded person comes here, I just leave them be because they do more damage to themselves than I ever could.

Methinks a misread is going on here buddy.

All I meant by my words is that you and I have both talked about other forums before and I said at the time "I'm a fucking beastie boy, I'll always fight for my right to party"
To which you responded "cool"
(or words to this effect in the exchange)

My personal feeling of:
"but I honestly feel sorry for the poor guys who get shafted without "deserving" it."
was merely that, I do feel sorry for the actual "innocent" ones and I was not trying to imply that you didn't.

Make more sense now dude? :beckettu:

 

[Gatefan1976]

Again sorry for the long wait for a reply.

No I don't and I completely understand the reasoning behind people who think that way. You don't like the show and its dragging the ratings down. Here's where we disagree though - I think the best thing for the franchise is too continue the show (which imo is becoming more mainstream and generally better) and get those movies out there. Or at the very least a miniseries for Atlantis - I think it would do well and would help to try and reconcile fans of the franchise. No longer would it be SGU as opposed to SG1/SGA it would be 3 arms of a franchise.

Here's the problem though, even if SGU is getting better (and yes, in some ways I do believe it has) its ratings are so bad that to continue it will only (imo) hurt the franchise. What studio/station will risk money on Stargate again if SGU goes into it's third season and the ratings tank even further? As much as fans of any show want it to "go on forever", at the end of the day, the comercial TV industry exists to sell products, the entertainment is a by-product (an important one sure, but a byproduct nonetheless). What you want here, whilst admirable, just isn't a realistic outcome. Consider this, The next SG1 movie was supposed to be "Jack-centric", can you see RDA going back to "Jack", after loosing 1.2M dollars?. Do you think Joe F wants to deal with the current PTB after seeing stuff like the "I smell bullshit" photo? What about Jason M if Conan goes well?
Having 3 arms would indeed be better and would be (from a purely selfish fan point of view) awesome, but I cannot realisticly hold out any hope of it happening in the current environment.

If the show goes down I think Stargate will be in an even worse position than it is now - at least its out there. I think if it goes off the air the majority of people will move on and the fanbase thats left wont be worth making anything for.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Here's my own personal bit of "crystal balling". I think BSG B&C is going to get rushed into production as soon as humanly possible and if it does well (after specificly being sold as a "action-adventure show"), SGU will be cancelled soon after and a new SG series will be launched, sold again as action-adventure. If B&C flops, SGU will get it's 3rd "goodwill season" played out and SG will go into long term hiatus. Now, I have no facts to back that up, BUT, if I was a network exec it's the kind of move I'd be looking at, using BSG as a testbed for the viability of a new stargate show.

Yeh I didn't know that but I think with MGM's current position the next couple of months will decide if those movies are going ahead or not. If it wasn't for the SGU announcement likely to come first I'd be quite optimistic.

I disagree, based on what I said further up. Sorry dude

Yes my point here though is that I don't get what is productive about creating a forum based solely around disliking SGU and laughing at fans (which does sometimes go on here) who do like it. I know you guys do other things than that on here and I think the name should have reflected that. I mean the site is more about having the right to air your views and not feel abandoned because you didn't jump on board a new Stargate show than bitching and moaning because something you don't like is on the air. Let's be honest - this site would not exist if SGA still did because nobody would have been pushed aside.

Yoshi my man, you really are getting the hang of this place aren't you.:beckettu:
You poor bastard!!

The thing is though mate, What other name would you pick? Honest question here. You've been here on and off for what, about a month now, If you were given full discretional power to change the name of the site that would more accurately describe the people and commentry that goes on here, what would YOU pick?

I'm not going to argue against any of that as it's clearly your viewpoint and experience. I will say that it's extremely unfortunate for all Stargate fans that the whole thing turned out the way it did. I feel just as strongly that you guys shouldn't have been pushed aside as I do about wanting more SG1/SGA/SGU. It's silly to think that a more inclusive attitude by the producers might have saved a lot of arguing and fallout.

Well, I would add "some fans, some sites and some actors" to that last bit, but imo, your quite right. But the reality is, here we are now, this is where we are at. No amount of wishing, rainbows and magic fairies is going to change that fact. Why do you think people find it so utterly hilarious when people say "it's all the fault of those nasty SGUS people", all the way up to the goddamn showrunners and creators? The people on this board may "keep it alive", but the "fault" for it's entire existance can be laid squarely at the feet who complain about it the most.

 

[JohnSN7]

I disagree, and here's why

Imagine being a Batman fan and seeing Batman Forever and Batman & Robin directed by Joel Schumacher. Would you be pissed? Yes. Would you want new creative talent to take over the Batman films? Yes. And it did happen. Christopher Nolan took over and made the best Batman films (and two great films by their own merits) ever. The same can and does apply to Stargate.

Brad Wright and Robert Cooper have made their equivalent of Batman & Robin. Not only have they made an awful show, they have refused to admit it. And they not only refuse to admit it, but also respond arrogantly and unprofessionally to criticism. We are fans of the franchise. We made it successful in the first place and the producers have given the fans the middle finger. Mallozzi and Wright have made statements to the effect of dismissing the current fanbase as unimportant or unnecessary. Never mind unprofessional journalists such as Michael Hinman who are in TPTB's pockets. This behavior by the creative heads of the franchise justifies our desire to see them gone from the Stargate franchise. We do not feel like the Stargate franchise is in safe hands right now.

Look at the state of the Stargate franchise currently. SG1 and SGA were pulling in millions (over 2 million) viewers consistently. Even SGA at its worst when it was under 2 million viewers was pulling in more viewers than SGU at its (rare) best. SGU's ratings are abysmal and bordering on sub-million viewers. The lore, canon, and mythology of Stargae has been demolished by SGU. Gateworld, once the best Stargate fan site, has so much censorship that it is not fun to post there anymore. Stargate has had its controversial moments (like when Daniel Jackson was taken off of the show) but even then Gateworld was still open. The fanbase has been so divided because of SGU that the franchise itself is at a huge low point. I recommend checking out Overmind One's "Burning Bridges" thread. It gives a long list of ways SGU has hurt the franchise.

You cannot deny that the Stargate franchise is in a bad spot right now. That is why we want SGU to be cancelled. Cancelling SGU will save the franchise. There won't be a Stargate show for at least a year, maybe more. But we are Stargate fans and are willing to wait for something good. But there will be a reboot with different writers and producers. There will be a Christopher Nolan who will reboot the franchise. Stargate is a sci fi franchise that has incredible creative potential. It may take awhile, but we will see our "Stargate Begins."

 

[Robbie_Rocket_Pants]

The thing about the arrogance of TPTB & the arguments of the SGU squeedrones is that SGU & the SG franchise are the intellectual property of MGM & the people who write/produce the show & not the property of the fans & fan input is irrelevant............. well............. bollocks!

The producer/fan relationship was, is & should be, a symbiotic one - one cannot exist without the other. TPTB & co may argue that without the guys writing & producing the show we wouldn't get our "Stargate fix" (as if we are depedent junkies) but I would say equally, that without us, Stargate SG-1 would have got cancelled in it's first season - the reason it didn't was it was quality entertainment.

The fact is that we can afford to be alot moee picky than TPTB. They may want to go elsewhere for "the right audience" & they have tailor-made their show to that end but they have failed miserably - there simply isn't an audience for shit TV. Whereas we want "the right sci-fi show" & we can well afford to go elsewhere if a TV show is a miserable failure & we have done so to that end.