Did battlestar galactica(2003) set a bad precedence?

[heisenberg]

Fellow GF members,

When BSG(2003) started airing,did it sucess set a bad precendence of drama being incorporated into sci-fi? IMO, BSG is very little sci-fi. Infact I wouldn't even consider it as a science fiction show(very little discussion on the technology of the cylon etc)... I wish shows DID NOT copy BSG...Now we have started to see more and more drama sort of shows protraying to be sci-fi,when they clearly aren't.

 

[Joelist]

Don't get too worried about it.

SyFy has cancelled all their "Soap-Fi" shows and there are no new ones in the works.

 

[Robbie_Rocket_Pants]

& with any hope, blood & chrome will be all "pew pew".

 

[ChromeToasterX]

Fellow GF members,

When BSG(2003) started airing,did it sucess set a bad precendence of drama being incorporated into sci-fi? IMO, BSG is very little sci-fi. Infact I wouldn't even consider it as a science fiction show(very little discussion on the technology of the cylon etc)... I wish shows DID NOT copy BSG...Now we have started to see more and more drama sort of shows protraying to be sci-fi,when they clearly aren't.

Not really. I've seen and read plenty of scifi that didn't focus on the tech, so having tons of exposition on how X, Y, and Z work is not a prerequisite for being scifi. Besides, drama is in practically every genre and medium in existence. It's an inherent result of having characters with conflicting goals and approaches to the situations they are in.

The problem is that TV execs/producers tend to copy the most superficial elements of shows without understanding the real reasons why people liked those shows and/or lacking people competent/good enough to produce something on that level or better.

 

[YoshiKart64]

I don't think drama is a bad thing to have in sci-fi, even if it does become the prevalent part of the show.

The important thing is to make sure the stories you tell surrounding that drama is compelling and interesting. The common complaint with SGU is that the characters were not people you could get invested in and the storylines surrounding the drama seemed to be going nowhere.

With a show like Caprica as well, I think the writers created something entirely unique. It was a drama set against a sci-fi backdrop - not only was there the primary storyline but also this culture and lifestyle being presented in the background, one that was totally removed from our society. It wasn't traditional sci-fi, and perhaps it was entirely to niche to find an audience, but I thought it was pretty compelling as its own thing.

 

[ginogoneforever]

I don't think drama is a bad thing to have in sci-fi, even if it does become the prevalent part of the show.

The important thing is to make sure the stories you tell surrounding that drama is compelling and interesting. The common complaint with SGU is that the characters were not people you could get invested in and the storylines surrounding the drama seemed to be going nowhere.

http://www.pinkraygun.com/2008/02/08/the-sci-fi-channel-needs-women/

With a show like Caprica as well, I think the writers created something entirely unique. It was a drama set against a sci-fi backdrop - not only was there the primary storyline but also this culture and lifestyle being presented in the background, one that was totally removed from our society. It wasn't traditional sci-fi, and perhaps it was entirely to niche to find an audience, but I thought it was pretty compelling as its own thing.

The series was created from two separate ideas. In 2005, writer Ronald D. Moore and producer David Eick (who had made the remake of "Battlestar Galactica" (2004)) announced they were planning to make a spin-off prequel series called "Caprica" which was set at the time when humanity first created the Cylons. Although they had a vague idea of what the series would entail, they were too busy working on "Battlestar Galatica" to develop it further at that time. Some months later, a separate idea about artificial intelligence and using robots as slaves was pitched to NBC/Universal by Remi Aubuchon. Universal did not pick up Aubuchon's concept by itself but felt it would work within the realm of Moore's premise for the "Caprica" series. At Universal's suggestion, Moore and Eick then met with Aubuchon and their ideas were merged together.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0799862/trivia

 

[Gatefan1976]

Fellow GF members,

When BSG(2003) started airing,did it sucess set a bad precendence of drama being incorporated into sci-fi? IMO, BSG is very little sci-fi. Infact I wouldn't even consider it as a science fiction show(very little discussion on the technology of the cylon etc)... I wish shows DID NOT copy BSG...Now we have started to see more and more drama sort of shows protraying to be sci-fi,when they clearly aren't.

I don't think it set a bad precedent at all. NBSG was fine for what it was. From what I gather, S1-2 did fine ratings wise and then started to drop S3-4 (correct me if i'm wrong). Do I wish other shows did not copy the style, sure I do. Copying any (other) shows style shows to me at least that the writers of said show simply cannot come up with thier own ideas and it is grating to watch.

One interesting development that make come out of this whole debacle is the idea of the 2-3 season show by intent rather than by ratings may come out of it. It would require much tighter writing on behalf of the storytellers, but I think it could be a interesting concept to explore. Apparently the "Dark Tower" screen adaption is going to be in a format like this with movies breaking up the seasonal sections, and I'm looking forward to see how that concept plays out. I think if DT works this way it would make for a very interesting direction for visual entertainment to take.

 

[I Miss Fri Night SCIFI]

& with any hope, blood & chrome will be all "pew pew".

Couldn't have said it any better! And that goes for the general state of the SciFi channel. Less "boo hoo" and more "pew pew"!

 

[Joelist]

NuBSG was almost a tale of two series.

Season 2 and roughly the first half of Season 2 were not so soapy. They had drama, but also compelling characters to work it with and well considered stories. The show started to go into the tank following the "Pegasus" 2 parter and Season 3 was awful - poorly considered plots (the whole Final Five thing was stupid and forced them to do a lot of retconning). Season 4 in a few rare spots (like the Mutiny 2 parter) recovered some of that Season 1 fire, but overall it again was just too soapy. And the series finale was absolute twaddle.

 

[Aragon101]

Hmmm interesting question.

Precedent yes, but not in that BSG was completely guilty. As said above. alot of the show WAS well written and balanced. It veered off into Soapy territory after the Pegasus arc, but the escape from New Caprica was brilliantly written in both drama and action because everyone had their issues to resolve, and their part to play in the battle.

The issue i find with BSG was that it was a science fiction show that didn't want to take itself as a science fiction show. Religion and "god did it" can be explained in a 'Sci-fi" way, but they chose not to go that way because it 'niches' itself more than sci-fantasy.

If BSG hadn't decided to go into the fantasy element to avoid the 'cliche' aliens, i think it would have been much more successful, then again, the actors weren't all that interested in Sci-fi anyway (didn't Olmos say if aliens come up he's quitting?)

For what it's worth, i enjoyed nBSG because it had a great balance for the first half of its showing, afterwards... not so much.

the precedent it set though is appalling. Drama need not be the focus of a sci-fi show, merely the seasoning in a great stew of goodness!

 

[Rac80]

NuBSG was almost a tale of two series.

Season 2 and roughly the first half of Season 2 were not so soapy. They had drama, but also compelling characters to work it with and well considered stories. The show started to go into the tank following the "Pegasus" 2 parter and Season 3 was awful - poorly considered plots (the whole Final Five thing was stupid and forced them to do a lot of retconning). Season 4 in a few rare spots (like the Mutiny 2 parter) recovered some of that Season 1 fire, but overall it again was just too soapy. And the series finale was absolute twaddle.

Yep initally it caught my interest but when it devolved into "bunk bingo" I was over it. it was well written (at least initally) and I admit to being predisposed to giving RDA a chance since he worked on my beloved DS9. But that is one series I will not bother buying...whereas I own the orignal series (with a cylon head box no less) and have enjoyed it's 70's cheesiness a number of times.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Yep initally it caught my interest but when it devolved into "bunk bingo" I was over it. it was well written (at least initally) and I admit to being predisposed to giving RDA a chance since he worked on my beloved DS9. But that is one series I will not bother buying...whereas I own the orignal series (with a cylon head box no less) and have enjoyed it's 70's cheesiness a number of times.

Didn't ya just wish that frigging medical bay would just explode sometimes!

 

[Rac80]

Didn't ya just wish that frigging medical bay would just explode sometimes!

I was always waiting for someone, ANYONE to shoot that idiotic "daggit" muffit!

 

[circle square circle]

I really liked galatica, even through its decline after the second season, even though its finale. I liked the dynamic between the creator and the created. I liked how the show constantly asked whether humanity was truly worth saving instead of the default of so many sf shows that humans are awesome. I liked how the characters did shitty things but still had glimmers of hope and honor. I liked the strong women who didn't take any shit like roslin and cain and starbuck. I liked the pew pew pew! I liked going into a commercial or a season finale saying 'holy shit what just happened!'

sgu was stargate's answer to galactica and it was worse in every way. Slow. Predictable. Characters who were so flawed that you didn't care about them. Weak women. Evading the hard ethical questions.

I liked caprica too but holy shit it took a long time to get anywhere. And what the hell happened to adama's daughter in the end?

 

[Gatefan1976]

I was always waiting for someone, ANYONE to shoot that idiotic "daggit" muffit!

Is that your foot about to go up poor Muffit's Arse Rac80?


​

 

[Rac80]

Is that your foot about to go up poor Muffit's Arse Rac80?​

naaah that's hubby's foot...he's the one with the canoe-sized shoes!

 

[ginogoneforever]

I don't think it set a bad precedent at all. NBSG was fine for what it was. From what I gather, S1-2 did fine ratings wise and then started to drop S3-4 (correct me if i'm wrong). Do I wish other shows did not copy the style, sure I do. Copying any (other) shows style shows to me at least that the writers of said show simply cannot come up with thier own ideas and it is grating to watch.

One interesting development that make come out of this whole debacle is the idea of the 2-3 season show by intent rather than by ratings may come out of it. It would require much tighter writing on behalf of the storytellers, but I think it could be a interesting concept to explore. Apparently the "Dark Tower" screen adaption is going to be in a format like this with movies breaking up the seasonal sections, and I'm looking forward to see how that concept plays out. I think if DT works this way it would make for a very interesting direction for visual entertainment to take.

There was nothing that Moore did with GINO (Galactica In Name Only) that wasn't done many years before. SPACE ABOVE & BEYOND did the dark, realistic, gritty space tv show with ORIGINAL SOURCE MATERIAL 1995-1996 15 9 years before GINO and ALIEN introduced the style into the genre, via the silver screen 1979 25 years prior to GINO.

He DID introduce heavy soapy/relationship drama into the genre, though. ...wish he hadn't.

 

[Joelist]

And ironically nuBSG didn't start out as a soap opera. Basically it was turned into one beginning in the second half of season 2. And that was also when the quality started to tank.

 

[Gatefan1976]

There was nothing that Moore did with GINO (Galactica In Name Only) that wasn't done many years before. SPACE ABOVE & BEYOND did the dark, realistic, gritty space tv show with ORIGINAL SOURCE MATERIAL 1995-1996 15 9 years before GINO and ALIEN introduced the style into the genre, via the silver screen 1979 25 years prior to GINO.

Strangly enough though mate, I really didn't give that much of a toss about the original BSG series. I understand that you love it to bits (and yes it has now joined the ranks of my DVD collection), and thats cool and all, but I was never that invested in the show to begin with, for me it was just more fun Scifi on TV on the same level as the original V. NBSG (for me) still managed to present interesting enough characters (even with a female Starbuck) for it to hold my interest long enough to watch (and own) all of the seasons, even though it did go downhill in S3.5 onwards. To me it's a bit like ST:TOS vs ST 2009, I liked both of them. Even though the story for ST 2009 is radically different from all the background material I have ever seen or read about TOS era, yet I initaily despised ENT for doing a similar thing to ST canon. I guess I forgave it more in ST 2009 because it had an inbuilt reason why it was different to TOS canon.

He DID introduce heavy soapy/relationship drama into the genre, though. ...wish he hadn't.

Hardly. Read enough books from multiple genre's and eventually you come to the realisation we are still reading the exact same stories we have since writing was invented, merely the settings, characters and sub-genre weighting changes.

 

[Rac80]

ENT

Strangly enough though mate, I really didn't give that much of a toss about the original BSG series. I understand that you love it to bits (and yes it has now joined the ranks of my DVD collection), and thats cool and all, but I was never that invested in the show to begin with, for me it was just more fun Scifi on TV on the same level as the original V. NBSG (for me) still managed to present interesting enough characters (even with a female Starbuck) for it to hold my interest long enough to watch (and own) all of the seasons, even though it did go downhill in S3.5 onwards. To me it's a bit like ST:TOS vs ST 2009, I liked both of them. Even though the story for ST 2009 is radically different from all the background material I have ever seen or read about TOS era, yet I initaily despised ENT for doing a similar thing to ST canon. I guess I forgave it more in ST 2009 because it had an inbuilt reason why it was different to TOS canon.




Hardly. Read enough books from multiple genre's and eventually you come to the realisation we are still reading the exact same stories we have since writing was invented, merely the settings, characters and sub-genre weighting changes.

I didn't mind the changes to canon in ENT at all. I am the type that is aware information can easily be lost to history. (I worked on a history of my small town as a school project in my teens - we ahd a hard time peicing together info from the 1930s. )So I saw the "changes" to canon as merely lost information in TOS or TNG's time. I did love however that ENT had Romulans...just as shadowy behind the scenes characters.