ASTRONAUT TWIN STUDY REVEALS SPACE TIME CAN CHANGE DNA

[YJ02]

Conducted with Scot Kelly and his twin

seems we knew that time in space can cause some physical issues, know they know it can cause actual DNA deviations

<<side personal note--a fee weeks ago, I found out through a town facebook page on West Orange NJ, where I grew up till age 13, that the Kelly brothers who are 2 yrs older then I, went to the same school i did there (there were 4 grade schools, 2 jun hs, and 2 hs in town) and were 2 grades ahead of me. we had the same teachers. me and my friends probably hung out with them playing stick ball and 3 flies.... pretty cool in the scope of things>>

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/astronauts-dna-changed-by-time-in-space/ar-BBKdBPT

 

[Overmind One]

From your link:

The study looks at what happened to Kelly before, during and after he spent one year aboard the International Space Station through an extensive comparison with his identical twin, Mark, who remained on Earth.

NASA has learned that the formerly identical twins are no longer genetically the same.

More current scientific findings regarding "identical" twins:

https://www.livescience.com/24694-identical-twins-not-identical.html

Science is showing us that all living organisms are individually different in some way, even individuals created by budding or cloning. No identical twins are also identical genetically.

SAN FRANCISCO – Identical twins may not be so identical after all. Even though identical twins supposedly share all of their DNA, they acquire hundreds of genetic changes early in development that could set them on different paths, according to new research.

The findings, presented Friday (Nov. 9) here at the American Society of Human Genetics meeting, may partly explain why one twin gets cancer while another stays healthy. The study also suggests that these genetic changes are surprisingly common.

 

[YJ02]

From your link:



More current scientific findings regarding "identical" twins:

https://www.livescience.com/24694-identical-twins-not-identical.html

Science is showing us that all living organisms are individually different in some way, even individuals created by budding or cloning. No identical twins are also identical genetically.

SAN FRANCISCO – Identical twins may not be so identical after all. Even though identical twins supposedly share all of their DNA, they acquire hundreds of genetic changes early in development that could set them on different paths, according to new research.

The findings, presented Friday (Nov. 9) here at the American Society of Human Genetics meeting, may partly explain why one twin gets cancer while another stays healthy. The study also suggests that these genetic changes are surprisingly common.

and that is entirely true for physical/health issues

for health "nurture" can be more of an issue than "nature"

in human behavior though, twin studies are without any real match or replacement when it comes to things like personality traits, mental health and emotional issues

outcomes as well

most twins are born with the same intellectual abilities-the same promise, so to speak

but studies of twins separated at birth and adopted to others, shows that family, early education, environment and emotional attachments to adopted family and friends have significant impact on behavior and educational training achievements

sure it is not perfect, but again, for behavior, learning ,mental health, it has no close competitor that achieve the same longitudinal results

----------------------
with this finding though, I hardly think that any imperfections in twin dna at birth would have little if anything to do with the findings of this so called 'space dna'

it is going to take repeat studies with more twin astronauts that is a definite issue as with any scientific finding

AND

this is a real world finding in humans not just what has been found previously in plants or animals, that is the basis for those things we see in sci fi

like how humans born in, or long lived in zero g or artificial g environments or 'heavy' g environments bring about mutations in human dna

like in ANDROMEDA or in THE EXPANSE

this is one small, real finding in humans, that shows that these sci fi musings do indeed have a foundation in not just theory but in a actual experiment

 

[Overmind One]

and that is entirely true for physical/health issues

for health "nurture" can be more of an issue than "nature"

in human behavior though, twin studies are without any real match or replacement when it comes to things like personality traits, mental health and emotional issues

outcomes as well

most twins are born with the same intellectual abilities-the same promise, so to speak

but studies of twins separated at birth and adopted to others, shows that family, early education, environment and emotional attachments to adopted family and friends have significant impact on behavior and educational training achievements

sure it is not perfect, but again, for behavior, learning ,mental health, it has no close competitor that achieve the same longitudinal results

----------------------
with this finding though, I hardly think that any imperfections in twin dna at birth would have little if anything to do with the findings of this so called 'space dna'

it is going to take repeat studies with more twin astronauts that is a definite issue as with any scientific finding

AND

this is a real world finding in humans not just what has been found previously in plants or animals, that is the basis for those things we see in sci fi

like how humans born in, or long lived in zero g or artificial g environments or 'heavy' g environments bring about mutations in human dna

like in ANDROMEDA or in THE EXPANSE

this is one small, real finding in humans, that shows that these sci fi musings do indeed have a foundation in not just theory but in a actual experiment

The reason I posted that response is because the original article was implying that somehow space and time "changed" the DNA of the twins because of studying the brother's DNA. There is the flaw. If they really want to test the theory, then they need to ake a DNA sample before the flight and stay in space, then another one later. After doing a comparative study of the samples from the SAME individual, then you have the basis for a theory.

 

[YJ02]

Well, as a member of-or a recent member of, the US military alone, then his DNA would be on file, as well as other physical info from 5 year physicals that are required for all military members

as a member of nasa, i am sure they have the dna of every astronaut for studies and for basic things like ID in the case of a fiery crash or some other event.

Also, as I said, this needs to be repeated with other sets of twins.

and, there are so many other flaws with our astronaut program (and maybe other nations as well?)
-age being the biggest one I see.

too many of our astronauts are just damned old. many go into space in their 40's and 50's (i believe Kelly was 52 when he went up). at those ages, there are already SO MANY changes occurring in a man's, and woman's body that affect hings like bone density and cell integrity

we need to make the astro program far more streamlined and open it up to far m ore ppl, being a military pilot should only be necessary for those who will fly the craft (yes i know they have had non military ppl, but not all that many compared to the military ones)

I know, from being bored one time on staff duty all night, while in the army, I once read the reg on applying for the army astronaut program. time in service requirements alone made it automatically the youngest you could be was in your 30's.

I think that a future space program, like going to mars, or setting up shop on the moon or a permanent orbiting platform, is going to require ppl with far more of a skill set then military pilot or the other limited fields they do recruit from.

also, i think ppl in their 20's would be a far better choice. they are at the peak of health having just completed their growth to full physical maturity. they are going to have more stamina and just plain old "oompf' then a 50 yr old

a 50 yr od may have better drive and motivation mentally, but they are lacking in the physical side NO MATTER how fit they are.

--other things as well. we do not do enough tests on human conditions in space

at some point we are going to have ppl staying permanently on the moon or in near earth orbit. we are eventually going to need to know zero/low g effects on things like reproduction as well as pregnancy and birth

what is the alt.? just send ppl out to the moon or elsewhere and have them just 'wing it' and hope for healthy offspring-their replacements or future colonists?

we also need to send sick ppl to space to study the effects of that. not seriously ill ppl, but ppl with flu and other virus (non death causing ones), we will need to study how bacterial infections work in humans in space and then how treatments like anti biotics (since many are made from living organisms) will function in space

we cant just assume things like this will work the same as on earth
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

here is an interesting article written by Kelly himself. again ,one wonders if a person 30 yrs younger would have the same severe reactions in the same manner as he did?

https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/as...fects-of-a-year-in-space-20170922-gyn9iw.html

 

[Jim of WVa]

Well, as a member of-or a recent member of, the US military alone, then his DNA would be on file, as well as other physical info from 5 year physicals that are required for all military members

as a member of nasa, i am sure they have the dna of every astronaut for studies and for basic things like ID in the case of a fiery crash or some other event.

Also, as I said, this needs to be repeated with other sets of twins.

and, there are so many other flaws with our astronaut program (and maybe other nations as well?)
-age being the biggest one I see.

too many of our astronauts are just damned old. many go into space in their 40's and 50's (i believe Kelly was 52 when he went up). at those ages, there are already SO MANY changes occurring in a man's, and woman's body that affect hings like bone density and cell integrity

we need to make the astro program far more streamlined and open it up to far m ore ppl, being a military pilot should only be necessary for those who will fly the craft (yes i know they have had non military ppl, but not all that many compared to the military ones)

I know, from being bored one time on staff duty all night, while in the army, I once read the reg on applying for the army astronaut program. time in service requirements alone made it automatically the youngest you could be was in your 30's.

I think that a future space program, like going to mars, or setting up shop on the moon or a permanent orbiting platform, is going to require ppl with far more of a skill set then military pilot or the other limited fields they do recruit from.

also, i think ppl in their 20's would be a far better choice. they are at the peak of health having just completed their growth to full physical maturity. they are going to have more stamina and just plain old "oompf' then a 50 yr old

a 50 yr od may have better drive and motivation mentally, but they are lacking in the physical side NO MATTER how fit they are.

--other things as well. we do not do enough tests on human conditions in space

at some point we are going to have ppl staying permanently on the moon or in near earth orbit. we are eventually going to need to know zero/low g effects on things like reproduction as well as pregnancy and birth

what is the alt.? just send ppl out to the moon or elsewhere and have them just 'wing it' and hope for healthy offspring-their replacements or future colonists?

we also need to send sick ppl to space to study the effects of that. not seriously ill ppl, but ppl with flu and other virus (non death causing ones), we will need to study how bacterial infections work in humans in space and then how treatments like anti biotics (since many are made from living organisms) will function in space

we cant just assume things like this will work the same as on earth
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

here is an interesting article written by Kelly himself. again ,one wonders if a person 30 yrs younger would have the same severe reactions in the same manner as he did?

https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/as...fects-of-a-year-in-space-20170922-gyn9iw.html

Twin studies of spaceflight are in their infancy. I agree that they need to repeat the experiment with younger twins.

 

[YJ02]

Twin studies of spaceflight are in their infancy. I agree that they need to repeat the experiment with younger twins.

and, with the program/ recruiting for it the way it currently is, it is going to be awfully hard to find enough twins

 

[Overmind One]

and, with the program/ recruiting for it the way it currently is, it is going to be awfully hard to find enough twins

The point that I was making is that you cannot use twins in a comparative DNA study because they are not genetically identical. However as a researcher, such a study (pitched to philanthropists or government agencies who are unaware that "identical twins" are only visually identical), would be quite profitable in terms of grant money and equipment requirements.

 

[Overmind One]

Twin studies of spaceflight are in their infancy. I agree that they need to repeat the experiment with younger twins.

I think twin studies are interesting, but they are not really a good basis for comparative DNA studies because the DNA is not actually identical (according to...twin studies!).

http://www.sciencefocus.com/article/human-body/do-identical-twins-have-identical-genes
http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask68
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ll-identical-twins-apart-just-melt-their-dna/

 

[YJ02]

cannot use twins in a comparative DNA study because they are not genetically identical.

right, not perfect, but they are the best we have to study changes.

if they only studied the changes in a unilateral, one astronaut, before and after way, that would be flawed and very limited as well

the twin who did not go to space for a year is the control group, the one who went up for a year is the test group

triplets would be better! one control, one test and one null. the null would have to not be an astronaut

 

[YJ02]

DNA is not actually identical (according to...twin studies!).

but those differences are not that large and would have led to each twin doing different things, having different health and careers

the Kelly's are twins who were cohabited and nurtured in an identical manner

I PROBABLY missed it, but didn't the first link you put up reference a classic twin study? that is, one where the twins were separated and raised/nurtured in different ways?

The Kellys were raised same, made same life choices, etc,etc,etc

 

[Tripler]

WTH !!! Can't keep track of there own satellites !!!

https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/16/17129586/nasa-cloud-observation-challenge-ceres-instruments

 

[Overmind One]

WTH !!! Can't keep track of there own satellites !!!

https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/16/17129586/nasa-cloud-observation-challenge-ceres-instruments

LMAO...also interesting on that site:

https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/15/...y-dna-scott-kelly-international-space-station

Several stories this week have proclaimed that the DNA of former NASA astronaut Scott Kelly changed during his year living on the International Space Station. The stories say that 7 percent of his genes did not return back to normal when he came back to Earth. It makes it seem as if the space environment permanently altered his genetic code. The problem? That’s not true.

The mistake stems from an inaccurate interpretation of NASA’s ongoing Twins Study. When Scott went to space in 2015, his identical twin Mark — also a former NASA astronaut — stayed on the ground. The idea was that Mark would serve as a control subject — a nearly identical genetic copy that NASA could use to figure out how the space environment changed Scott’s body.