Why Shatner's scene was deleted from 2009's Star Trek
- Thread starter heisenberg
- Start date
As a Trekkie...
Meh...for me, Star Trek was embodied more in the whole core crew than in Kirk as an individual. The only individual I found truly deep and interesting is (not surprisingly) Spock. At conventions, you will see far more Vulcans, Klingons, Romulans and even Bajorans but very few Kirk's, McCoys, Uhurus, Sulus (well, there are actually a fair amount of Sulus) and Chekovs. Kirk is at the core of Trek, but he is not the CENTER of it. He died in Generations so he's dead. I wouldnt have wanted the huge plothole of him in that scene. I dont need to ever see Shatner as Kirk again. He was a great Kirk...but no longer. Spock, on the other hand, can still be Spock even if he is made into a wizened old puppet like Yoda and becomes 600 years old.
. Kirk can only be Kirk when he is in shape and chasing women. Fat old Kirk doesnt cut it...sorry!
Meh...for me, Star Trek was embodied more in the whole core crew than in Kirk as an individual. The only individual I found truly deep and interesting is (not surprisingly) Spock. At conventions, you will see far more Vulcans, Klingons, Romulans and even Bajorans but very few Kirk's, McCoys, Uhurus, Sulus (well, there are actually a fair amount of Sulus) and Chekovs. Kirk is at the core of Trek, but he is not the CENTER of it. He died in Generations so he's dead. I wouldnt have wanted the huge plothole of him in that scene. I dont need to ever see Shatner as Kirk again. He was a great Kirk...but no longer. Spock, on the other hand, can still be Spock even if he is made into a wizened old puppet like Yoda and becomes 600 years old.
. Kirk can only be Kirk when he is in shape and chasing women. Fat old Kirk doesnt cut it...sorry!
heisenberg
Earl Grey
I agree but wouldn't have hurt for them to put it in the bluray extras like an easter egg.
True...I think that showing the remaining crew members who are still alive would be a good addition to it. Perhaps interviews with how the old crew members feel about the new one, etc. But Shatner playing the role of Kirk now? I dont really want to see that. I didnt want to see him in Generations either. I think if they tried to force him in the movie it would have ruined it.
They need to change some things.
They are going to have to fix that. And there is other stuff they are going to have to change (gets notebook out).
I know what you mean. Kirk is hilarious, but best in small doses.
I think it was a huge mistake to blow up Vulcan, it's one of the main reasons I didn't like Abrams' Trek.
They are going to have to fix that. And there is other stuff they are going to have to change (gets notebook out).
- Undo blowing up Vulcan, or create a new Vulcan immediately.
- Change the sounds of pretty much everything (ESPECIALLY the shuttles). Get rid of the Jetsons sounds and pick more logical ones. The background sounds are pure anime. Please change them.
- Un-bling the bridge. Remove the club lights and the beer taps and especially that chrome stick shift at Sulu's station. I should NEVER have to see a single lens flare in the movie when they are filming on the bridge.
- Sharpen the lines of the Enterprise. The swoopy character lines on the nacelles dont make sense from a design standpoint, and look more like the LED accent lighting on an Audi than functional running lights.
- Dump the "laser machine-gun" effect of the "phasers" in the new film. Phasers are BEAM weapons, and I should be seeing beams, not "bullets" of light. That didnt come until the Defiant in DS9, and just because they looked cool in BSG 2.0 doesnt mean they look good shooting from the Enterprise.
- KEEP the cool new warp effect where the ships only have a brief engine glow then "blam" they are gone. But DUMP the new swirly transporter effect and go for linear beams and a glow like we are used to.
- Do NOT change the appearance of familiar aliens like the Klingons, Vulcans, Romulans, Cardassians, etc. They must carry the look of the TNG defined universe.
- Do NOT change the design of favorite ships like the Klingon warbird, The Romulan cruisers or the familiar diamond shaped ships of the Tholians.
- DO NOT trample on canon that is still part of the new timeline.
They already have a winner - the huge boxoffice (especially given the fairly modest budget) and the overall very positive reception demonstrate that.
One really nice thing Abrams did was to get Trek back to its more optimistic roots and away from the darker, more cynical DS9 and Enterprise mood. ST09 is also a resounding repudiation of "soap-fi" - everything is tightly paced and while we get small amount of personal relationships it never is allowed to control the plot. The humor is a part of that and it even extended (per Abrams and Orci) to using light colors for the Enterprise interiors - it is all intended to reinforce the more upbeat theme. And that is a big part of its success - they stripped Trek down to its essence and built a film around that eseence.
As to Vulcan, I have to say I do not think anything in the revised timeline should be undone - that is simply the "reset button" we typically rail against. In fact we even see the underlying positive view here, in that despite the destruction the Vulcans find a new planet and begin again. Also, so far they have not violated the canon of the pre-Kirk times. In fact they built off of it. Trek 09's universe is the TOS Pre-Kirk universe with alteations introduced by Nero (for example Kirk's backstory changed, and as a result others were also affected). In this storyline he becomes a Captain a few years earlier, and also Pike while injured is not maimed as in TOS.
Also, neither Spock's ship not the Narada violate canon, as neither type of ship had yet been built during the traditional canon period. Spock's ship was an experimental ship for the red matter mission, and the Narada was an an advanced mining ship used to strip down whole planets. These vessels are actually even post-TNG and Post-Nemesis (spit), as Spock has concluded his work on Romulus.
In short, they have a nice, wide open universe they can set adventures in without having to worry that they are violating canon.
One really nice thing Abrams did was to get Trek back to its more optimistic roots and away from the darker, more cynical DS9 and Enterprise mood. ST09 is also a resounding repudiation of "soap-fi" - everything is tightly paced and while we get small amount of personal relationships it never is allowed to control the plot. The humor is a part of that and it even extended (per Abrams and Orci) to using light colors for the Enterprise interiors - it is all intended to reinforce the more upbeat theme. And that is a big part of its success - they stripped Trek down to its essence and built a film around that eseence.
As to Vulcan, I have to say I do not think anything in the revised timeline should be undone - that is simply the "reset button" we typically rail against. In fact we even see the underlying positive view here, in that despite the destruction the Vulcans find a new planet and begin again. Also, so far they have not violated the canon of the pre-Kirk times. In fact they built off of it. Trek 09's universe is the TOS Pre-Kirk universe with alteations introduced by Nero (for example Kirk's backstory changed, and as a result others were also affected). In this storyline he becomes a Captain a few years earlier, and also Pike while injured is not maimed as in TOS.
Also, neither Spock's ship not the Narada violate canon, as neither type of ship had yet been built during the traditional canon period. Spock's ship was an experimental ship for the red matter mission, and the Narada was an an advanced mining ship used to strip down whole planets. These vessels are actually even post-TNG and Post-Nemesis (spit), as Spock has concluded his work on Romulus.
In short, they have a nice, wide open universe they can set adventures in without having to worry that they are violating canon.
Yes, but if they want LONGEVITY they better go easy.
Yes, but a huge part of the Trek essence is the vision of the future as an extension of the present. I dont see where we would ever want to hear sounds like the ones they used in the 2009 movie. That bridge is just...it needs to change. Those lights on the nacelles really bug me, as do other design elements of the new Enterprise:
What about the phasers? Since when do we have rapid-fire phasers in the 22nd Century?
Yes, and then that kills the whole story of the Talosians and their power of illusion What about the Organians? There is a galaxy-wide treaty signed with all the major races called the Organian Peace Treaty. How will that happen? Will it happen? I just hope they dont go for boxoffice and miss the long haul.
They could violate the core premise, however. Cheesy sounds alone could kill enthusiasm.
Yes, but a huge part of the Trek essence is the vision of the future as an extension of the present. I dont see where we would ever want to hear sounds like the ones they used in the 2009 movie. That bridge is just...it needs to change. Those lights on the nacelles really bug me, as do other design elements of the new Enterprise:
What about the phasers? Since when do we have rapid-fire phasers in the 22nd Century?
Yes, and then that kills the whole story of the Talosians and their power of illusion
What about the Organians? There is a galaxy-wide treaty signed with all the major races called the Organian Peace Treaty. How will that happen? Will it happen? I just hope they dont go for boxoffice and miss the long haul.They could violate the core premise, however. Cheesy sounds alone could kill enthusiasm.
heisenberg
Earl Grey
They are going to have to fix that. And there is other stuff they are going to have to change (gets notebook out).
- Undo blowing up Vulcan, or create a new Vulcan immediately.
- Change the sounds of pretty much everything (ESPECIALLY the shuttles). Get rid of the Jetsons sounds and pick more logical ones. The background sounds are pure anime. Please change them.
- Un-bling the bridge. Remove the club lights and the beer taps and especially that chrome stick shift at Sulu's station. I should NEVER have to see a single lens flare in the movie when they are filming on the bridge.
- Sharpen the lines of the Enterprise. The swoopy character lines on the nacelles dont make sense from a design standpoint, and look more like the LED accent lighting on an Audi than functional running lights.
- Dump the "laser machine-gun" effect of the "phasers" in the new film. Phasers are BEAM weapons, and I should be seeing beams, not "bullets" of light. That didnt come until the Defiant in DS9, and just because they looked cool in BSG 2.0 doesnt mean they look good shooting from the Enterprise.
- KEEP the cool new warp effect where the ships only have a brief engine glow then "blam" they are gone.
WARNINGS:
- Do NOT change the appearance of familiar aliens like the Klingons, Vulcans, Romulans, Cardassians, etc. They must carry the look of the TNG defined universe.
- Do NOT change the design of favorite ships like the Klingon warbird, The Romulan cruisers or the familiar diamond shaped ships of the Tholians.
- DO NOT trample on canon that is still part of the new timeline.
If Abrams keeps the show on that delicate zone between Trek fan approval and a new younger audience like the last one did, they will have a winner.
If they are to have Klingons in the next movie, they must look human like(which is what TOS had)..
Well, they can go either way with that, since the reason there were supposedly human-looking Klingons was because the Klingons were going to infiltrate the Federation and it was an experiment gone awry.