R
Robbie_Rocket_Pants
Guest
ST: Insurrection is a terrible Trek film but you're probably right, it will not doubt get more viewers than SGU.
ST: Insurrection is a terrible Trek film but you're probably right, it will not doubt get more viewers than SGU.
Aragon101
Illusive Deity of Fanfic
That's because TNG is TOS's ultrabadass result. TNG! The longest running trek series! *Yes, totally rubbing it in your face*thanks for posting that! great to see!
ENCHANTED is hilarious! I love businesses that can poke fun at themselves and disney does a great job in that movie!
Hated ST:I, but then not a tng fan...that is what hubby likes!
Okay okay, Insurrection sucked gonads, but come on, they were burnt out by that point just like SGA season 5.
Rac80
The Belle of the Ball
Rac rulez!!!
VOY and DS9 also lasted 7 years. and DS9 was the tops- waaay better! you don't know good when it comes to Trek junior!
TNG was horrible, simply a reworking of TOS scripts in the first two seasons!
VOY and DS9 also lasted 7 years. and DS9 was the tops- waaay better! you don't know good when it comes to Trek junior!
Aragon101
Illusive Deity of Fanfic
Neither Voyager nor DS9 had four movies made from it. Voyager was a moderner TNG, and DS9 broke away from the 'utopian' style adventures by relying on a 'war' scenario for its stories. Just because DS9 was written well doesn't mean it's better than TNG (which for Season 3 onwards was written quite well), it's apples and oranges as far as i'm concerned. TNG made me think and go "Wow" with the sense of wonder. That's why TNG still gets better ratings than SGU does nowTNG was horrible, simply a reworking of TOS scripts in the first two seasons!
The movies were one hit and several misses. Generations was bleh and full of plot holes. First Contact was pretty badass, but Jonathan Frakes ruined it with his meddling and making it more 'pop' culture style. Insurrection was a WTF that raised many eyebrows and Nemesis was just facepalm worthy.
But that's still 4 movies more than Voyager or DS9.
I don't deny that TNG sucked pretty bad for the first two seasons, but by season 3 it became a much truer sci-fi show
Season 1 was a headache but had enough good episodes to keep it going. Season 2 was marginally better but not by much, but Season 3 really upped the ante and from there it just became something awesome.I understand if you don't enjoy it Rac, but i don't appreciate the way you insult my intelligence when i CAN defend my position and can admit that there WERE problems with the show. You're just as bad as that SGU fan who goes "Your argument is invalid" when you do that and it's one of the reasons i've been shifting away from this whole SGU*S forum.
Rac80
The Belle of the Ball
Neither Voyager nor DS9 had four movies made from it. Voyager was a moderner TNG, and DS9 broke away from the 'utopian' style adventures by relying on a 'war' scenario for its stories. Just because DS9 was written well doesn't mean it's better than TNG (which for Season 3 onwards was written quite well), it's apples and oranges as far as i'm concerned. TNG made me think and go "Wow" with the sense of wonder. That's why TNG still gets better ratings than SGU does now
The movies were one hit and several misses. Generations was bleh and full of plot holes. First Contact was pretty badass, but Jonathan Frakes ruined it with his meddling and making it more 'pop' culture style. Insurrection was a WTF that raised many eyebrows and Nemesis was just facepalm worthy.
But that's still 4 movies more than Voyager or DS9.
I don't deny that TNG sucked pretty bad for the first two seasons, but by season 3 it became a much truer sci-fi show
I understand if you don't enjoy it Rac, but i don't appreciate the way you insult my intelligence when i CAN defend my position and can admit that there WERE problems with the show. You're just as bad as that SGU fan who goes "Your argument is invalid" when you do that and it's one of the reasons i've been shifting away from this whole SGU*S forum.
Movies do not excellence make-- TNG got them because it finished it's television run first, simple as that. Voyager had finished up it's series with the return to the alpha quadrant. DS9 was cheated of a dominion war movie. I actually liked the acting and writing better on DS9, between Avery Brooks, Nana Visitor, Louse Fletcher (oscar winner!) and Jeffery Coombs- to name but four, DS9 had highly talented actors as regulars and recurring characters. Not all ideas worked well, but the plots were more compelling for me. I loved Bajoran politics, Sisko making the truly hard decisions, etc... TNG simply missed the mark and only rode on the coat-tails of TOS's movies. IV, V, and VI were all made while TNG was on the air and the horrible "gernerations" was to transition into the TNG cast. DS9 finished in 99 after the horrible Insurrection bombed. Supposedly after Nemesis was to be made a DS9 movie on the Dominion wars, but by then the last two of the four (? generations wasn't fully TNG IMHO) TNG movies had bombed so they put the franchise to sleep.
Never ever liken me to squeedrones!
Aragon101
Illusive Deity of Fanfic
Movies do not excellence make-- TNG got them because it finished it's television run first, simple as that. Voyager had finished up it's series with the return to the alpha quadrant. DS9 was cheated of a dominion war movie. I actually liked the acting and writing better on DS9, between Avery Brooks, Nana Visitor, Louse Fletcher (oscar winner!) and Jeffery Coombs- to name but four, DS9 had highly talented actors as regulars and recurring characters. Not all ideas worked well, but the plots were more compelling for me. I loved Bajoran politics, Sisko making the truly hard decisions, etc... TNG simply missed the mark and only rode on the coat-tails of TOS's movies. IV, V, and VI were all made while TNG was on the air and the horrible "gernerations" was to transition into the TNG cast. DS9 finished in 99 after the horrible Insurrection bombed. Supposedly after Nemesis was to be made a DS9 movie on the Dominion wars, but by then the last two of the four (? generations wasn't fully TNG IMHO) TNG movies had bombed so they put the franchise to sleep.
Never ever liken me to squeedrones!
Unlike SGU which is just bad, TNG has a huge following and reinvigorated the franchise whether you like it or not. Voyager and DS9 were based on TNG, not TOS. You hear that? Your precious DS9 wouldn't exist without TNG. Same as SGU wouldn't exist without SG1 or SGA. You're taking your own personal likes and dislikes and treating them as if it were an objective qualification of the show. TNG wasn't cancelled in its second season, it picked up and went 7 seasons. So yes, you are making a ridiculous argument by trying to put down the longest running Trek series in the history of the franchise.
Most TNG fans i know dislike the movies because it wasn't at all like the show was. The show was scientific, it focused on creative plots and ideas without having to fall back on tired cliches of war and romance every other episode, and there's a reason why TNG episodes are so well known that even other shows copy them. Does that mean DS9 wasn't those things? NO! DS9 wouldn't have lasted 7 seasons if it weren't good in its own right.
You don't see the cast of DS9 on "Family Guy" because it's nowhere near as well known.
And yes, i will compare you to a squeedrone if you come to me saying i don't know what good trek is. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
Rac80
The Belle of the Ball
Think what you wish kiddo. not going to change my mind and I obviously won't change yours. TNG didn't reinvigorate the series- The Wrath of Khan did that. (not that horrible first movie) Yes I know we have ds9 due to tng, but it was a great improvement with a darker edge (thanks to RDM), IMHO. Ok I'm done.
S
Stonelesscutter
Guest
TNG is great because it has Picard and Data. Vogager is great because it has the doctor and seven-of-nine. DS9 is great because it has Garak and Bashir. Dukat had his moments. Nog was nice later on. Avery Brooks' acting truly sucked though. In Voyager Chakotay wasn't really to my liking and Kes was cute at first but then got to be annoying.
All three series lasted for 7 seasons and as far as I'm concerned they could all have existed longer.
Each of the shows is different and has it's own qualities.
I can't make a good comparison to determine which one is best.
They're all great.
All three series lasted for 7 seasons and as far as I'm concerned they could all have existed longer.
Each of the shows is different and has it's own qualities.
I can't make a good comparison to determine which one is best.
They're all great.
Rac80
The Belle of the Ball
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
I tend to agree
DS9 was something of a dog. I could only watch so much before I got tired of the Bajoran shit. *YAWN* And Avery Brooks' acting was nonexistent. You can actually tell he's reading lines off a prompter in certain parts, he's that wooden. He lacked the ability to emote at all. Very strange. Horrible casting choice.
There were some good characters like Quark and even the Cardassian guy was given some good storylines. The shape shifter guy (Rene Blahblahblah) was just creepy and the love interest thing with him and the boring Bajoran woman was nauseating. Also, the doctor just screamed "effete homosexual" and was NOT convincing as a ladys man. (not that I have a problem with homosexuals, just saying the actor did NOT fit the role). DS9 should have met a similar fate as SGU.
DS9 was something of a dog. I could only watch so much before I got tired of the Bajoran shit. *YAWN* And Avery Brooks' acting was nonexistent. You can actually tell he's reading lines off a prompter in certain parts, he's that wooden. He lacked the ability to emote at all. Very strange. Horrible casting choice.
There were some good characters like Quark and even the Cardassian guy was given some good storylines. The shape shifter guy (Rene Blahblahblah) was just creepy and the love interest thing with him and the boring Bajoran woman was nauseating. Also, the doctor just screamed "effete homosexual" and was NOT convincing as a ladys man. (not that I have a problem with homosexuals, just saying the actor did NOT fit the role). DS9 should have met a similar fate as SGU.
Rac80
The Belle of the Ball
you are aware the bajoran (kira) and the doctor had a child together off screen and were even married for a while?
ParagonPie
Well Known GateFan
In terms of superiority TNG was more effective than DS9. Looking back a pop culture and you'll see which shows had the most impact. TNG was so popular that it transcended from the circles from science fiction fans to that of regular pop culture, much like TOS people now days know who Picard is as much as Kirk, can you say the same for Captain Sisko? Thought not. Now I'm not bashing DS9 here but what I am saying is that while DS9 was a good show in that in brought something new yet familiar to the Trek series it didn't break free of the bounds of being within the niche that is Star Trek fan base. Sisko was a different Captain to that of Picard and that was his thing, Picard's mission was that of peaceful exploration, while Sisko's was that of enforcing the peace while on the frontier/borders surrounded by enemies, so really comparing the two, for me at least is just plain stupid when neither would function in either environment. So when judging a show on which is superior, there are many ways you can look at it, hidden gems/diamonds (like Babylon 5) to those which have the greater impact our media culture. TNG did that. DS9 did not.
When I watched DS9, it is one of those shows where I felt the supporting or recurring characters are more effective than the main ones, personal opinion I know. But I found Garak, Odo and Quark to be far more interesting characters than the Starfleet personnel.
Until the Dominion Conflict came .Sadly while this conflict was also its high point to true trek fans if you want to call them that, it was also a bad move. TNG teased the fans of seeing these incredibly powerful war machines, the galaxy class starship and Romulan Warbird almost come to blows but yet it never did, however in DS9 this once powerful engines of destruction were portrayed as something made out of a crate paper and were disabled/destroyed after 3 phaser shots. I know it was the FX budget that restricted it however they didn't have to have thousands of ships on screen, sometimes less is more you know?
Voyager to me, was just horrible, absolutely awful. It did have some good episodes here and there but those were few and far between. It was to me the SGU of the Trek world, then Enterprise came around. Oh fuckeroo! The same applies to the Trek Movies (the TNG ones that is), those were just dumb action movies that are not related to the characters of the TV show but in fact the opposite to how they would and should react to given situations, it effectively broke its own universe. Generations, First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis were just awful.
I know its just my opinion but I do like DS9 as its own independent trek show
Anyways, wuv you's rac80!
When I watched DS9, it is one of those shows where I felt the supporting or recurring characters are more effective than the main ones, personal opinion I know. But I found Garak, Odo and Quark to be far more interesting characters than the Starfleet personnel.
Until the Dominion Conflict came .Sadly while this conflict was also its high point to true trek fans if you want to call them that, it was also a bad move. TNG teased the fans of seeing these incredibly powerful war machines, the galaxy class starship and Romulan Warbird almost come to blows but yet it never did, however in DS9 this once powerful engines of destruction were portrayed as something made out of a crate paper and were disabled/destroyed after 3 phaser shots. I know it was the FX budget that restricted it however they didn't have to have thousands of ships on screen, sometimes less is more you know?
Voyager to me, was just horrible, absolutely awful. It did have some good episodes here and there but those were few and far between. It was to me the SGU of the Trek world, then Enterprise came around. Oh fuckeroo! The same applies to the Trek Movies (the TNG ones that is), those were just dumb action movies that are not related to the characters of the TV show but in fact the opposite to how they would and should react to given situations, it effectively broke its own universe. Generations, First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis were just awful.
I know its just my opinion but I do like DS9 as its own independent trek show
Anyways, wuv you's rac80!
Rac80
The Belle of the Ball
In terms of superiority TNG was more effective than DS9. Looking back a pop culture and you'll see which shows had the most impact. TNG was so popular that it transcended from the circles from science fiction fans to that of regular pop culture, much like TOS people now days know who Picard is as much as Kirk, can you say the same for Captain Sisko? Thought not. Now I'm not bashing DS9 here but what I am saying is that while DS9 was a good show in that in brought something new yet familiar to the Trek series it didn't break free of the bounds of being within the niche that is Star Trek fan base. Sisko was a different Captain to that of Picard and that was his thing, Picard's mission was that of peaceful exploration, while Sisko's was that of enforcing the peace while on the frontier/borders surrounded by enemies, so really comparing the two, for me at least is just plain stupid when neither would function in either environment. So when judging a show on which is superior, there are many ways you can look at it, hidden gems/diamonds (like Babylon 5) to those which have the greater impact our media culture. TNG did that. DS9 did not.
When I watched DS9, it is one of those shows where I felt the supporting or recurring characters are more effective than the main ones, personal opinion I know. But I found Garak, Odo and Quark to be far more interesting characters than the Starfleet personnel.
Until the Dominion Conflict came .Sadly while this conflict was also its high point to true trek fans if you want to call them that, it was also a bad move. TNG teased the fans of seeing these incredibly powerful war machines, the galaxy class starship and Romulan Warbird almost come to blows but yet it never did, however in DS9 this once powerful engines of destruction were portrayed as something made out of a crate paper and were disabled/destroyed after 3 phaser shots. I know it was the FX budget that restricted it however they didn't have to have thousands of ships on screen, sometimes less is more you know?
Voyager to me, was just horrible, absolutely awful. It did have some good episodes here and there but those were few and far between. It was to me the SGU of the Trek world, then Enterprise came around. Oh fuckeroo! The same applies to the Trek Movies (the TNG ones that is), those were just dumb action movies that are not related to the characters of the TV show but in fact the opposite to how they would and should react to given situations, it effectively broke its own universe. Generations, First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis were just awful.
I know its just my opinion but I do like DS9 as its own independent trek show
Anyways, wuv you's rac80!
to each his own babe. wuvs you back!
My fav would have to be Voyager cause having a female captain at its time was great. Tho the story was getting old I did adore the cast.
Loved DSN concept but hated the cast, but the best thing was the Dominion war and the Founders.
TNG was great for just fun viewing
TOS never got into it.
Loved DSN concept but hated the cast, but the best thing was the Dominion war and the Founders.
TNG was great for just fun viewing
TOS never got into it.
R
Robbie_Rocket_Pants
Guest
In terms of superiority TNG was more effective than DS9. Looking back a pop culture and you'll see which shows had the most impact. TNG was so popular that it transcended from the circles from science fiction fans to that of regular pop culture, much like TOS people now days know who Picard is as much as Kirk, can you say the same for Captain Sisko? Thought not. Now I'm not bashing DS9 here but what I am saying is that while DS9 was a good show in that in brought something new yet familiar to the Trek series it didn't break free of the bounds of being within the niche that is Star Trek fan base. Sisko was a different Captain to that of Picard and that was his thing, Picard's mission was that of peaceful exploration, while Sisko's was that of enforcing the peace while on the frontier/borders surrounded by enemies, so really comparing the two, for me at least is just plain stupid when neither would function in either environment. So when judging a show on which is superior, there are many ways you can look at it, hidden gems/diamonds (like Babylon 5) to those which have the greater impact our media culture. TNG did that. DS9 did not.
When I watched DS9, it is one of those shows where I felt the supporting or recurring characters are more effective than the main ones, personal opinion I know. But I found Garak, Odo and Quark to be far more interesting characters than the Starfleet personnel.
Until the Dominion Conflict came .Sadly while this conflict was also its high point to true trek fans if you want to call them that, it was also a bad move. TNG teased the fans of seeing these incredibly powerful war machines, the galaxy class starship and Romulan Warbird almost come to blows but yet it never did, however in DS9 this once powerful engines of destruction were portrayed as something made out of a crate paper and were disabled/destroyed after 3 phaser shots. I know it was the FX budget that restricted it however they didn't have to have thousands of ships on screen, sometimes less is more you know?
Voyager to me, was just horrible, absolutely awful. It did have some good episodes here and there but those were few and far between. It was to me the SGU of the Trek world, then Enterprise came around. Oh fuckeroo! The same applies to the Trek Movies (the TNG ones that is), those were just dumb action movies that are not related to the characters of the TV show but in fact the opposite to how they would and should react to given situations, it effectively broke its own universe. Generations, First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis were just awful.
I know its just my opinion but I do like DS9 as its own independent trek show
Anyways, wuv you's rac80!
I agree with every point you made here, a very insightful post. :beckettu:
Rac80
The Belle of the Ball
TOS FTW- in pop culture!
Well if you want to discuss which show effected pop culture the most you must give props to the Original Star Trek. From beam me up to scotty to flip phones to Kirking to "i'm a ____ not a ___"; TOS has had the longest lasting effect of all the series! The Daddy of trek pop culture icons is of course Kirk and there is a hilarious History Channel Documentary called "how William Shatner Changed the World"-- it's about Trek's effect in our every day lives. Would the most popular cellphones be "flip phones" if not for Kirk's little flip open of the communication device? It's hosted by William Shatner himself and is a good blend of interesting and funny as hell. Makes you think and laugh at the same time. TOS's place as a pop culture icon itself was solidified by Galaxy Quest- which poked fun at not only TOS but the fans/convention phenomena. The actors weren't spoofing TNG characters/actors but those from TOS. Alan Rickman does a killer Nimoy! And Tim Allen as Shanter 
! Then of course there is the Smithsonian (America's National Museum of a sort) exhibit of the TOS's sets, costumes, and props. Boy those things looked sooo much cooler on the tv then they look up close. They ahve the bridge set, a transporter room set, and the sick bay.
In the immortal words of James T. Kirk:
In terms of superiority TNG was more effective than DS9. Looking back a pop culture and you'll see which shows had the most impact. TNG was so popular that it transcended from the circles from science fiction fans to that of regular pop culture, much like TOS people now days know who Picard is as much as Kirk, can you say the same for Captain Sisko? Thought not. Now I'm not bashing DS9 here but what I am saying is that while DS9 was a good show in that in brought something new yet familiar to the Trek series it didn't break free of the bounds of being within the niche that is Star Trek fan base. Sisko was a different Captain to that of Picard and that was his thing, Picard's mission was that of peaceful exploration, while Sisko's was that of enforcing the peace while on the frontier/borders surrounded by enemies, so really comparing the two, for me at least is just plain stupid when neither would function in either environment. So when judging a show on which is superior, there are many ways you can look at it, hidden gems/diamonds (like Babylon 5) to those which have the greater impact our media culture. TNG did that. DS9 did not.
When I watched DS9, it is one of those shows where I felt the supporting or recurring characters are more effective than the main ones, personal opinion I know. But I found Garak, Odo and Quark to be far more interesting characters than the Starfleet personnel.
Until the Dominion Conflict came .Sadly while this conflict was also its high point to true trek fans if you want to call them that, it was also a bad move. TNG teased the fans of seeing these incredibly powerful war machines, the galaxy class starship and Romulan Warbird almost come to blows but yet it never did, however in DS9 this once powerful engines of destruction were portrayed as something made out of a crate paper and were disabled/destroyed after 3 phaser shots. I know it was the FX budget that restricted it however they didn't have to have thousands of ships on screen, sometimes less is more you know?
Voyager to me, was just horrible, absolutely awful. It did have some good episodes here and there but those were few and far between. It was to me the SGU of the Trek world, then Enterprise came around. Oh fuckeroo! The same applies to the Trek Movies (the TNG ones that is), those were just dumb action movies that are not related to the characters of the TV show but in fact the opposite to how they would and should react to given situations, it effectively broke its own universe. Generations, First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis were just awful.
I know its just my opinion but I do like DS9 as its own independent trek show
Anyways, wuv you's rac80!
Well if you want to discuss which show effected pop culture the most you must give props to the Original Star Trek. From beam me up to scotty to flip phones to Kirking to "i'm a ____ not a ___"; TOS has had the longest lasting effect of all the series! The Daddy of trek pop culture icons is of course Kirk and there is a hilarious History Channel Documentary called "how William Shatner Changed the World"-- it's about Trek's effect in our every day lives. Would the most popular cellphones be "flip phones" if not for Kirk's little flip open of the communication device? It's hosted by William Shatner himself and is a good blend of interesting and funny as hell. Makes you think and laugh at the same time. TOS's place as a pop culture icon itself was solidified by Galaxy Quest- which poked fun at not only TOS but the fans/convention phenomena. The actors weren't spoofing TNG characters/actors but those from TOS. Alan Rickman does a killer Nimoy!
And Tim Allen as Shanter ! Then of course there is the Smithsonian (America's National Museum of a sort) exhibit of the TOS's sets, costumes, and props. Boy those things looked sooo much cooler on the tv then they look up close. They ahve the bridge set, a transporter room set, and the sick bay.In the immortal words of James T. Kirk:
ParagonPie
Well Known GateFan
Well if you want to discuss which show effected pop culture the most you must give props to the Original Star Trek. From beam me up to scotty to flip phones to Kirking to "i'm a ____ not a ___"; TOS has had the longest lasting effect of all the series! The Daddy of trek pop culture icons is of course Kirk and there is a hilarious History Channel Documentary called "how William Shatner Changed the World"-- it's about Trek's effect in our every day lives. Would the most popular cellphones be "flip phones" if not for Kirk's little flip open of the communication device? It's hosted by William Shatner himself and is a good blend of interesting and funny as hell. Makes you think and laugh at the same time. TOS's place as a pop culture icon itself was solidified by Galaxy Quest- which poked fun at not only TOS but the fans/convention phenomena. The actors weren't spoofing TNG characters/actors but those from TOS. Alan Rickman does a killer Nimoy!
In the immortal words of James T. Kirk:
Oh don't get me wrong I'm not saying that TOS didn't have any impact at all, I was just comparing TNG to that of DS9 in terms of cultural impact. However what I am saying is that TNG had within reason (I am willing to compromise here) the same effect as TOS on that current generation of TV audience. Picard is a well known figure just as Kirk is. And yes the original series (can't speak in tla's any more, thats three letter abbreviations hehe) did change and inspire many technololgical idea's like hand held communication, internet porn, automatic opening doors, more porn. However I will say Kirk is more established than Picard and Kirk didn't have a complete run of crappy movies or Rick Berman practically fucking everything up.
I think it is always best to judge shows within their respective generation, which is why I don't really compare TNG to TOS (though I may have unwittingly done so here). TOS to me was a science fiction show that was way before its time, its ideas were too advanced for the technology of that period of television, and while some may see it as cheesy or corny the stories and ideas behind them remain at the core the very best Trek has to offer. Star Trek the motion picture was by all means just an extended star trek episode, but show progression of that they were getting older, and of course just with more sexual imagery and innuendo of penetrating space vaginas (had to giggle at that).
And finally.
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
Edit: How can anyone top that.
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
you are aware the bajoran (kira) and the doctor had a child together off screen and were even married for a while?
I'm not saying the British guy who played the doctor on DS9 WAS gay, I'm saying he came off as extremely effeminate. I probably should have used that word instead of homosexual. It's just hard to believe a screaming queen in the role of lady killer, that's all. But hey, some chicks are attracted to effeminate guys. That's cool, to each his own. For me it didn't work for the character. And I'm sorry but "Kira" was perhaps the most boring character to ever exist on screen. "Sisko" gave her a run for her money in the boring department but she beat him out in the end. The character is about as thrilling as melted vanilla ice cream.
And no, I didn't know they were married or had a kid, not that I would care. I didn't care about the characters they played on DS9 and have zero interest in their personal lives. If the effete British guy is into poon that's great. I'd say the same if he was into dudes. I'm not a hater, but I do know what works when it comes to characters on screen.