The end of episodic science fiction? The dawn of serialized (unfinished) science fiction will replac

[Overmind One]

Im very concerned with the future of science fiction. A very strange thing has happened to it. It is now shaped by target demographics (which is based in one's ability to buy products or pay subscription fees), and is now almost exclusively serialized. I understand the "why" of this, but I dont like the implications. Will it mean that we will start seeing amalgams of all the most popular shows rolled into some blobby, pulsating mess of a show combining what is thought to be the best of its ingredients? How about a scifi-gladiator show on Syfy which features all the most popular WWF wrestleers, only they are fighting for their respective planets in a stylized ring with flashing lights around it? We already have the Quantum Kitchen as an example. . So, what happened to episodic science fiction?

Movies.

Movies today are episodic, with some minor elements of serialization (when announced as a "Part 1" or a "Part 2" or a "trilogy"). But basically, most of the scifi movies are episodic by necessity. James Bond movies are episodic. Transformers movies are slightly serialized. Harry Potter was serialized as well as episodic. I think the only reason for this is because the studios cant seem to create characters that people will follow into EVERY movie they appear in. Also, the actors may not want to wait years between each movie. Im not sure how it works anymore because everything seems to be made to make money and not to entertain. The only mitigating factor seems to be the internet. I can listed to reviews and read them, I can read reactions on forums and blogs that are not controlled by the greedy media.

Serialized TV has burned me out. Shows that are good writing talent go for a season or two, or perhaps three, but then are cancelled. If the shows are episodic, then the series can end ad be rewatched in a variety of combinations and it wont much make a difference. But shows like Surface, Survivors, Outcasts, V...they are ended on excruciating cliffhangers and then are gone forever. Audiences WILL get tired of this. They will refuse to watch such shows without assurances...eventually. People will start pointing fingers at the writing teams who write series that get cancelled. Some other method will be invented by the fans, but at some point the draw of a new show and the pumped up hype wont work anymore.

[/RANT]

 

[shavedape]

Movies.

Movies today are episodic, with some minor elements of serialization (when announced as a "Part 1" or a "Part 2" or a "trilogy"). But basically, most of the scifi movies are episodic by necessity. James Bond movies are episodic. Transformers movies are slightly serialized. Harry Potter was serialized as well as episodic. I think the only reason for this is because the studios cant seem to create characters that people will follow into EVERY movie they appear in. Also, the actors may not want to wait years between each movie. Im not sure how it works anymore because everything seems to be made to make money and not to entertain. The only mitigating factor seems to be the internet. I can listed to reviews and read them, I can read reactions on forums and blogs that are not controlled by the greedy media.

Serialized TV has burned me out. Shows that are good writing talent go for a season or two, or perhaps three, but then are cancelled. If the shows are episodic, then the series can end ad be rewatched in a variety of combinations and it wont much make a difference. But shows like Surface, Survivors, Outcasts, V...they are ended on excruciating cliffhangers and then are gone forever. Audiences WILL get tired of this. They will refuse to watch such shows without assurances...eventually. People will start pointing fingers at the writing teams who write series that get cancelled. Some other method will be invented by the fans, but at some point the draw of a new show and the pumped up hype wont work anymore.

[/RANT]

I would agree with this. Movies, by their very nature, need to be episodic. There are rare exceptions such as Harry Potter or LOTR, but by and large movies must have a beginning, middle and end within their 120 minute confines. It's why they're successful. Can you imagine paying all that money to see a movie only to have it end mid-action and then being told you have to wait two years to see the next installment? That would be dumb and would not work on a large scale in the industry. Exceptions to this rule, yes, but they are just that-- exceptions.

As for shows, yes, I think people will grow tired of becoming invested in characters and stories only to know they won't ever get a resolution. The failure rate of serialized shows is happening more and more and viewer fatigue with this nonsense is only a matter of time. Additionally, who will want to buy a DVD set of a single season show like Surface or Invasion or Threshold when everyone knows it will end on a cliffhanger? There is virtually no replay value in such a show. It's pointless for any network to replay those shows and it's pointless for any consumer to purchase those shows.

At least with episodic shows that last only one season one can still find value in them. I'll use the non-scifi show Freaks and Geeks as an example (because it's a good one). There are only 18 episodes of this show and although there are over arching character stories each episode was self-contained in many ways. The show didn't end on a cliffhanger although it did have an interesting ending that could have been continued into a second season if they were renewed. People love this show. People still buy this show on DVD even though it only lasted one season back in 2001. This is because the show was episodic.

One need only look at the DVD sales of episodic SG-1/SGA verses that of serialized SGU to understand the issue. It's not rocket surgery. Why writers/producers arrogantly cling to their serialized vanity projects when scifi fans in particular are screaming for episodic shows with resolutions is a mystery.

Many people didn't change their negative opinion of Falling Skies until it picked up the action and gave some resolutions (mini ones) to certain story lines. We saw that change of opinion right here on this forum. It wasn't until there was a sense of a conclusion, of something actually happening other than just talk talk talk that got people to change their opinions of this show. It wasn't until there were elements of episodic story telling within this show that made this change of opinion happen. This show walks the line between episodic and serial and owes much of its success to the episodic side of things.

Scifi fans (and all genre fans) want satisfying resolutions to the stories they enjoy, especially serialized ones. But if producers/writers of serialized shows don't give satisfying mini- resolutions along the way in the story then they will eventually lose viewers due to boredom and fatigue.

 

[Gatefan1976]

You know, you 2 sound like SGU fans

 

[Overmind One]

You know, you 2 sound like SGU fans

(finishing up at the toilet with my Scott n Chloe toilet paper). What was that? SGU fan? I dont think so!

 

[Gatefan1976]

(finishing up at the toilet with my Scott n Chloe toilet paper). What was that? SGU fan? I dont think so!

Context my man, context
When SGU bought the farm, these are exactly the kind of comments SGU fans made, everywhere. I'm not so much "dissing your opinion" as I am "yanking your chain"

 

[mzzz]

Dexter's very good with self-contained seasons, although the novelty wore off for me after a few seasons in. Would Red Dwarf be considered episodic? Eh, they don't really have a Outer Limits or Twilight Zone anymore. Lol, considering all the rewatch stuff that's going on this forum, one fun show to bring back would be Mystery Science Theater 3000, although I've only seen a few episodes.

 

[Gatefan1976]

RD started episodic, but in later seasons it switched to a more serialized format. Quite frankly, I think that swtchover is a very good thing. The episodic style excels at introducing characters a begining the process of drawing the viewer into the characters and making you care about them. Serialization excels at telling better, longer stories. Many shows use this "blending" of the two ideas, and most of them are succesful.

 

[Red Mage]

I don't mind serialized TV but I hate season ending cliffhangers. If they want to use a serialized format, writers need to create story arcs that they can tell within their current contract committments. They shouldn't don't write a story that is going to take 3 seasons to resolve unless they got a 3 season deal upfront. If they only have 13 episodes gauranteed then their current major story arc should be written to be resolved with in that timeframe with a few tiny plot seeds being planted here and there in the case of a possible next season. I'm ok with a few loose ends being left open for the next season but I just hate it when writers end a season right in the middle of the action. SGA was a victim of this. They ended the first season IN THE MIDDLE of the Wraith siege of Atlantis! Imagine if Atlantis got cancelled after the first season with the plot being left open like that.

 

[Overmind One]

I don't mind serialized TV but I hate season ending cliffhangers. If they want to use a serialized format, writers need to create story arcs that they can tell within their current contract committments. They shouldn't don't write a story that is going to take 3 seasons to resolve unless they got a 3 season deal upfront. If they only have 13 episodes gauranteed then their current major story arc should be written to be resolved with in that timeframe with a few tiny plot seeds being planted here and there in the case of a possible next season. I'm ok with a few loose ends being left open for the next season but I just hate it when writers end a season right in the middle of the action. SGA was a victim of this. They ended the first season IN THE MIDDLE of the Wraith siege of Atlantis! Imagine if Atlantis got cancelled after the first season with the plot being left open like that.

BINGO. Im sick of playing spin-the-seasons with these writers. If they dont have a 5 year deal or three years or two, then Im not gonna watch it. I know for instance that Falling Skies is in for two seasons *actually one season of 20 episodes* and if I hear that the next season is unsure, then I will wean myself off of it until the last episode has played then see if the reaction is good or bad. The worse cliffhanger/endings I have seen recently are Surface and V, where the exciting cliffhanger (arguably the best episode of each series) was the end of the series and no ending. Im freakin SICK of that!

 

[Gatefan1976]

The chances of getting an "upfront deal" of 3-5 seasons is exceedingly (dismally so) low. Lets face it OM, would you have liked it if SGU got a deal like that? . I do agree that writers should write to thier contracted time as RM notes, serial or episodic and what they really need to do is pay far FAR more attention to what fans say (good or bad), and the ratings. If A shows ratings really start to slide, they should get in the writing room and work out a way to close out the series within the time allowed them, doing otherwise is really a slap to the fans more than anyone else.

 

[Overmind One]

The chances of getting an "upfront deal" of 3-5 seasons is exceedingly (dismally so) low. Lets face it OM, would you have liked it if SGU got a deal like that? . I do agree that writers should write to thier contracted time as RM notes, serial or episodic and what they really need to do is pay far FAR more attention to what fans say (good or bad), and the ratings. If A shows ratings really start to slide, they should get in the writing room and work out a way to close out the series within the time allowed them, doing otherwise is really a slap to the fans more than anyone else.

I like the ending of an ARC each season, without a cliffhanger. Sure, make the season episodic, and then wrap up the ARC at the end of the season...sorta like Sanctuary does it.

 

[Gatefan1976]

I like the ending of an ARC each season, without a cliffhanger. Sure, make the season episodic, and then wrap up the ARC at the end of the season...sorta like Sanctuary does it.

Sure, I don't think we are really disagreeing here dude, individual arcs should be resolved by seasons end, TV however, WANTS to give you that "reason to come back", what these idiots have not figured out yet is that if you like the show and characters, the viewers will be back anyway. I just recently finished watching S2 of Farscape for the first time and I really dug the ending of it, It closed off the arcs and gave fans a "finale" that was good. S3 opened up with the repercussions of that finale which I thought was awesome.

 

[mzzz]

They should shoot an extra episode per season or cut the season short by one episode, one episode that resolves whatever cliff-hanger they come up with.

 

[Gatefan1976]

They should shoot an extra episode per season or cut the season short by one episode, one episode that resolves whatever cliff-hanger they come up with.

What, and give more fans of shows the EaTG treatment?? Stuff that!! We all like what we like, and no fan of any show, weather you personally think it's crap or not, deseves to be left hanging. I might loathe a show, but I've been left hanging enough times to not want anyone to have to go through half assed endings or no ending at all.

 

[Graybrew1]

What, and give more fans of shows the EaTG treatment?? Stuff that!! We all like what we like, and no fan of any show, weather you personally think it's crap or not, deseves to be left hanging. I might loathe a show, but I've been left hanging enough times to not want anyone to have to go through half assed endings or no ending at all.

I hate that. Do not leave me hanging. The finale of Sopranos sucked, the finale of Lost sucked, the finale of SGU sucked.
Write me a real ending. Don't make me guess. If you make a cliffhanger, you had better have already gotten the ability to show the next episode.

Most cliffhangers are BS these days anyway. You know that they are not going to kill off that main star, or get home, all starve or or whatnot. If they did there would be no more show. Show after show keeps resorting to that these days. The writers seem to be getting lazier in general. Shorter seasons, is what I blame for that. That is just IMHO.

 

[mzzz]

Ahhh meant enemy at the gates would be a season finale and then an extra episode after that would resolve everything after. Eh most cliffhangers are as graybrew said, not really cliffhangers and you usually know what is going to happen and usually could be resolved in one episode. Sorry but Atlantis really didn't have overall arcs a lot, although there was the replicator arc but you know what I mean.

 

[Overmind One]

I hate that. Do not leave me hanging. The finale of Sopranos sucked, the finale of Lost sucked, the finale of SGU sucked.
Write me a real ending. Don't make me guess. If you make a cliffhanger, you had better have already gotten the ability to show the next episode.

Most cliffhangers are BS these days anyway. You know that they are not going to kill off that main star, or get home, all starve or or whatnot. If they did there would be no more show. Show after show keeps resorting to that these days. The writers seem to be getting lazier in general. Shorter seasons, is what I blame for that. That is just IMHO.

Thats what I mean. Many people will soon tire of it to the point that they wont watch the show AT ALL unless they know it will finish. Would people buy a ticket to a movie if they knew it was incomplete? Would they watch half a movie if they already knew that the second half would NEVER be made? Yep, audiences will get sick of this tactic and will abandon the sources of their stress. For instance, because of Stargate Universe and the surrounding tantrums that were thrown by Brad Wright, I will most likely never watch anything written by him or conceived by him again unless it has been vetted by viewers. Same with Tim Burton and James Cameron and Michael Bay. Conversely, I will watch ANYTHING written by Quentin Tarantino just on the strength of his name alone. Same was true for Gene Roddenberry and yes...Steven Spielberg. Not George Lucas.

Basically, I think that audiences will start noting the connection between certain channels/writers and a pattern of unfinished series or unresolved cliffhangers followed by cancellation and will seek more satisfying entertainment elsewhere. For instance, Disney/ABC does not know how to do science fiction. And when it does, it drops the ball EVERY time. Tron 3? Really....no thank you, Disney! You suck at science fiction.

 

[Overmind One]

Ahhh meant enemy at the gates would be a season finale and then an extra episode after that would resolve everything after. Eh most cliffhangers are as graybrew said, not really cliffhangers and you usually know what is going to happen and usually could be resolved in one episode. Sorry but Atlantis really didn't have overall arcs a lot, although there was the replicator arc but you know what I mean.

The end of the Goa'uld were an arc, as were the Ori, but they had to be resolved with a movie. To me, the SGU finale was actually mild compared to EATG. I know the crew went into stasis and that Eli was smiling and happy when the show ended. I dont need any resolution. But EATG had Atlantis in San Fran harbor, on earth, and the Pegasus was left without protection and Teyla had a new baby and now there was wormhole drive...

Atlantis needed a true story arc, and the only one I can recall was the Michael arc (which I didnt like). The Siege and the war between the Atlanteans and the Wraith could have been a cool arc. Deep Space Nine had the BEST story arcs I have seen in recent memory.

 

[shavedape]

Thats what I mean. Many people will soon tire of it to the point that they wont watch the show AT ALL unless they know it will finish. Would people buy a ticket to a movie if they knew it was incomplete? Would they watch half a movie if they already knew that the second half would NEVER be made? Yep, audiences will get sick of this tactic and will abandon the sources of their stress. For instance, because of Stargate Universe and the surrounding tantrums that were thrown by Brad Wright, I will most likely never watch anything written by him or conceived by him again unless it has been vetted by viewers. Same with Tim Burton and James Cameron and Michael Bay. Conversely, I will watch ANYTHING written by Quentin Tarantino just on the strength of his name alone. Same was true for Gene Roddenberry and yes...Steven Spielberg. Not George Lucas.

Basically, I think that audiences will start noting the connection between certain channels/writers and a pattern of unfinished series or unresolved cliffhangers followed by cancellation and will seek more satisfying entertainment elsewhere. For instance, Disney/ABC does not know how to do science fiction. And when it does, it drops the ball EVERY time. Tron 3? Really....no thank you, Disney! You suck at science fiction.

Yup, this is happening already, at least with me. I now look at new scifi offerings with a jaundiced eye of suspicion and cynicism. It's a natural response to being lied to and ripped off in terms of satisfaction for so many years. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

The way I see it is I don't have the time or energy to invest in a show/story if it's not going to give me a payoff at some point. And nowadays I simply refuse to put much faith in most writers/producers because I've been burned too many times before. Surface was a great show and I watched every episode but it was all for nothing. I got zero satisfaction when it ended -- zero. I'm tired of that BS. Live and learn.

 

[Red Mage]

Thats what I mean. Many people will soon tire of it to the point that they wont watch the show AT ALL unless they know it will finish. Would people buy a ticket to a movie if they knew it was incomplete? Would they watch half a movie if they already knew that the second half would NEVER be made? Yep, audiences will get sick of this tactic and will abandon the sources of their stress. For instance, because of Stargate Universe and the surrounding tantrums that were thrown by Brad Wright, I will most likely never watch anything written by him or conceived by him again unless it has been vetted by viewers. Same with Tim Burton and James Cameron and Michael Bay. Conversely, I will watch ANYTHING written by Quentin Tarantino just on the strength of his name alone. Same was true for Gene Roddenberry and yes...Steven Spielberg. Not George Lucas.

Basically, I think that audiences will start noting the connection between certain channels/writers and a pattern of unfinished series or unresolved cliffhangers followed by cancellation and will seek more satisfying entertainment elsewhere. For instance, Disney/ABC does not know how to do science fiction. And when it does, it drops the ball EVERY time. Tron 3? Really....no thank you, Disney! You suck at science fiction.

I think that's why I like videogames. Very rarely are stories left incomplete as most games do not end on cliffhangers. If I buy and invest in a videogame story chances are despite whether or not I actually like the game or story, the plot is to be mostly like going to be resolved by the end of the game. In fact, Halo 2 is probably the only notable example of a major game I can think of that ends on a cliffhanger but that example wasn't so bad because Halo was such a huge success that a Halo 3 to finish the story was a given. Even then still potential for a payoff with an incomplete game. A game could have an incomplete story but still be great and worth the invested time if the gameplay is fun.

On the other hand, TV shows and movies don't have any other value like gameplay to fall back on and therefore live or die based on the quality of the story. The way serialized TV shows are handled right now is like giving the audience only disc 1 of a PS1 RPG and then more often or not leaving them hanging. In cases of shows like V, Surface, SGA etc. there was no "PLEASE INSERT DISC 2." Viewers simply got left with an incomplete story. I don't expect every single show on TV to have a great ending but there definately is a disturbing current trend of shows getting cancelled before getting proper resolution.