shavedape
Well Known GateFan
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2012/April/Swedish-Home-Schoolers-Flee-Parental-Inquisition/
Seig freakin' heil, comrade.
Seig freakin' heil, comrade.
Sweden strikes again
- Thread starter shavedape
- Start date
EvilSpaceAlien
Sinister Swede
Yep, this is the result of the Liberal Party and the rest of our ruling right-wing coalition's attempt to "improve" our educational system. 
And while the gov't are chasing after normal parents, independent religious schools are free to flourish. Freedom of choice my ass.
Frakking Jan Björklund. How this guy got to be our Minister of Education is frankly beyond me.
And while the gov't are chasing after normal parents, independent religious schools are free to flourish. Freedom of choice my ass.Frakking Jan Björklund. How this guy got to be our Minister of Education is frankly beyond me.
EvilSpaceAlien
Sinister Swede
I agree that the article was extremely hyperbolic and one sided, but there is a tiny sliver of something similiar to truth here and there, especially the parts about the reforms of the school law 2010 which I thought were plain idiotic in the first place. Granted, compared to some of the other stuff in the reform package, I don't think that home schooling is a major issue, but I'll take any opportunity I can to rant about the pure idiocy of our current government.
OMNI
My avatar speaks for itself.
funny how this so called reporter is making it sound like people are fleeing the totalitarian commie sweden.... just wow LMMFAO... obviously this douche has no f'n clue about anything and is just trying to create headlines.. and Ape shame on you for believing it and not applying source critique...
as for the topic itself i see no issue with banning home schooling as i dont want a bunch of religious extreemists running around here nor do i want madrasas here as "free schools" nor do i want the american version of homeschooled idots running around either..
tho i will say the current government ie the moderates (rightwing party) is most def turning sweden into a damned police state passing all kinds of laws allowing them to oversee and store comunications such as emails SMS phone calls IM convos etc etc along with putting ludicrus punishments in place for "crimes" that arnt even crimes.. yeah they have most def lost their F'n minds but in this case they are on track imo.. now if they could just clamp down on our rampant imigration problems too.. but noo that wont happen f'n spineless shits..
as for the topic itself i see no issue with banning home schooling as i dont want a bunch of religious extreemists running around here nor do i want madrasas here as "free schools" nor do i want the american version of homeschooled idots running around either..
tho i will say the current government ie the moderates (rightwing party) is most def turning sweden into a damned police state passing all kinds of laws allowing them to oversee and store comunications such as emails SMS phone calls IM convos etc etc along with putting ludicrus punishments in place for "crimes" that arnt even crimes.. yeah they have most def lost their F'n minds but in this case they are on track imo.. now if they could just clamp down on our rampant imigration problems too.. but noo that wont happen f'n spineless shits..
OMNI
My avatar speaks for itself.
bolded = hence me thinking it was BS but yah i agree björklund is a goddamn idiot who has NO idea how to fix our schools.. i mean come on earlier grading and grades in behaviour? that will fix our problems for sure... fookin idiot..
Gatefan1976
Well Known GateFan
Did anyone happen to notice WHO was reporting this.................
ROFLMFAO!!
ROFLMFAO!!
SciphonicStranger
Objects may be closer than they appear
Gatefan1976
Well Known GateFan
So I'm assuming you were absolutely unsuprised by the umm, *bias* of the artice then
SciphonicStranger
Objects may be closer than they appear
So I'm assuming you were absolutely unsuprised by the umm, *bias* of the artice then
Not surprised at all - we have a sizable home schooling movement over here that is starting to join up with the school voucher movement.
What is the actual law? That part seemed a little fuzzy.
Gatefan1976
Well Known GateFan
Not surprised at all - we have a sizable home schooling movement over here that is starting to join up with the school voucher movement.
What is the actual law? That part seemed a little fuzzy.
After some digging I came across this Sci:
"Current school conventions make it clear that the education in school shall be comprehensive and objective, and thereby be created so that all pupils can participate, no matter what religious or philosophical views the pupil or its legal guardian/s may have. In accordance with this it is the opinion of the Government that there is no need of a law to make possible homeschooling based on the religious of philosophical views of the family."
Page 523 in Prop. 2009/10:165 (Swedish Government proposition)
This means that religious or philosophical convictions are no longer valid reasons for homeschooling under the new school law.so from what *I* can see, all they have done is remove a clause that allowed homeschooling based on such factors. Homeschooling is still allowed, yet you must meet some other form of criteria (didn't find that out)
In essence, it reads like this to me:
You have taken away our right to brainwash our kids with our religious dogma so you can brainwash them with yours.
As usual the ones who will suffer from this is the kids, what a shocker!!
SciphonicStranger
Objects may be closer than they appear
As long as someone is washing them. Kids tend to be dirty buggers. 
Gatefan1976
Well Known GateFan
As long as someone is washing them. Kids tend to be dirty buggers.
Don't I know it
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
I'm not arguing this from a religious perspective but perhaps more of an American "independent" perspective if that makes sense. Yes, the majority of home school advocates are religious and raise their kids in their religion ("brainwash" if you want). As parents that's their right (at least here). What this article suggests is that in Sweden parents are no longer sovereign and even if they home school their kids they must also have the state endorsed curriculum. So, basically you're right in your assessment. The way I see it is that it tends to almost cancel each other out. Talk about schizo brainwashing of the kids. Yikes!
Gatefan1976
Well Known GateFan
Perfect sense bud. If you do a little digging, all the groups that are the most umm, vocal about the issue are American based screaming that it breaks first amendment rights. What folks tend to miss, (and in my humble opinion is what causes places to get pissed off with the US) is that not everyone has the US constitution, and nor do they want it sometimes. I sure as hell don't want any kind of "right to bear arms" kinda clause out here, not because I think its nessesaraly a *bad thing*, but because of what it has been used to justify.
Do you not have a similar thing in the "no child left behind" policy in the US? I dunno, but it sure as hell feels to me that you do as an outside observer. The question really boils down to exactly where the balance between rights of the parent and rights of the child lies, a tricky conundrum to say the least.
Exactly, where does the the childs rights end and when do the parents rights begin? Does the state have the right to question the parents judgement, does a parent have the right to question the state?
Rac80
The Belle of the Ball
FYI
"no child left behind" was about getting rid of the idea that a kid can graduate high school and not read or do math at grade level. it was about increasing the accountability of school districts and teachers, not about the home-schooling issue. some people loved it but the teacher's unions hated the entire program (because it was promoted by Bush 43? or just because it called for teacher accountability? ), it was not popular among the democrat wing of the education system mainly because it allowed parents of children in under-performing to transfer to higher performing local school-- even to providing vouchers for private school. Libertarians hated it because of perceived increase in gov't control of schools.
on the plus side: It actually DID improve test scores for reading and math (as seen in a 2005 study : http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/studies/statemapping/)
those who dislike standardized testing for children and/ or accountability for educators really hated this program; but if it worked it could only be good for the children.
"no child left behind" was about getting rid of the idea that a kid can graduate high school and not read or do math at grade level. it was about increasing the accountability of school districts and teachers, not about the home-schooling issue. some people loved it but the teacher's unions hated the entire program (because it was promoted by Bush 43? or just because it called for teacher accountability? ), it was not popular among the democrat wing of the education system mainly because it allowed parents of children in under-performing to transfer to higher performing local school-- even to providing vouchers for private school. Libertarians hated it because of perceived increase in gov't control of schools.
on the plus side: It actually DID improve test scores for reading and math (as seen in a 2005 study : http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/studies/statemapping/)
those who dislike standardized testing for children and/ or accountability for educators really hated this program; but if it worked it could only be good for the children.
shavedape
Well Known GateFan
I guess what I was getting at was the (assumed) universal belief that parents are sovereign in regards to raising their children. Here in America we just assume that this is a universal belief that's why we are so horrified by such stories. That's why the home schooling movement has grown so large here. It's a response to growing government intervention in the raising of children. Some people are just fine with having the state tell them how to raise their kids (or have the state raise the kids for them) while others don't want to give up the responsibility of raising their children. And yes, it often has to do with a clash of philosophies.
I don't know the specifics I admit but I believe that the home schooling standards are such that if a child transitions to public education they have to pass tests based on the public education guidelines. So basically home schooled kids have to meet state standards of education in the long run if they want to go to college and get a degree, etc.
Illiterati
Council Member & Author
I homeschooled my daughter from 2nd grade up through the end of her "senior year". I didn't do it for religious reasons at all (I don't belong to one of those "fanatical" religious groups). My daughter was being bullied in school and the administration did nothing to deal with it effectively. After I went as high up the food chain as I reasonably could, I made the decision to pull her out of regular school and teach her myself.
Going to school should be about getting an education, and shouldn't involve having to watch out to make sure that your classmates haven't laid out some (literally) painful prank for you to fall into.
I did not want my daughter to end up being one of those kids who finally loses it and ends up going to school one day to make a final fatal judgment on the situation.
It's really too bad that so many people out there seem to think that people homeschool simply for religious reasons.
Oh, and the fanatics who people and fund CBN need a clue by four upside the head.
Going to school should be about getting an education, and shouldn't involve having to watch out to make sure that your classmates haven't laid out some (literally) painful prank for you to fall into.
I did not want my daughter to end up being one of those kids who finally loses it and ends up going to school one day to make a final fatal judgment on the situation.
It's really too bad that so many people out there seem to think that people homeschool simply for religious reasons.
Oh, and the fanatics who people and fund CBN need a clue by four upside the head.
Gatefan1976
Well Known GateFan
What is grade level? Do you mean to a certain grade, or to whatever grade they happen to be in?
See, that in of itself is a pretty foreign concept, not because it's hard to understand, but out here such issues would be identified and dealt with anyway, with no need to resort to such measures.
Again, this is all pretty foreign, all of this stuff you are allowed to do out here anyway. You have to provide reasons for wanting to transfer schools, yes, but AFAIK, those reasons don't have to be all that much.
I think you may be making a bit much of the "accountability of educators" dear. Every teacher I have ever spoken to in any country loathes the idea mainly because a childs education in not just the domain of teachers, it's also the parents as you well know. How would you respond if your job and pay were determined by the recidivism rate of kids you council in jail? If they re-offend, *obviously:roll:* you didn't do enough for them so it must be your fault, thefore your services are no longer required because *you* are a substandard counciller.