Star Wars #7 Character Details

[Overmind One]

Abu Dhabi is a reasonable choice as they filmed the original trilogy Tattooine scenes in Tunisia. It gives them a very similar look and is not necessarily more expensive to shoot at as it has modern airports and support facilities right at hand.

If they can judiciously use location filming to prevent the film from being an over-CGIed abomination then good for them.

That does not answer the question. The deserts in Tunisia do not look different than the deserts of the Gobi, the Mojave, the Sahara or any other desert. Location shots in cities and other known locales cannot be substituted, but to say that this is okay because they shot the Trilogy in Tunisia still does not make sense. It is like saying that 100 square miles of the Atlantic ocean are different than 100 square miles of the Pacific Ocean or the Sea of China or the Gulf of Mexico.

The film is going to be substantially CGI because it just isn't financially feasible to do it any other way. I think if you are hoping for real sets, you are in for a big disappointment. Maybe one large interior and maybe a few generic exteriors, but most of it is going to be composites CGI.

 

[Gatefan1976]

I should add that I started wondering how the same director (Abrams) could turn out a sound Trek entry in Trek 2009 then turn out incoherent nonsense in ST:Into Darkness. Research revealed some interesting nuggets:

1) The screenplay for Into Darkness was written by Damon Lindelof who was not involved in the scripting of the first film. After discovering this the fact that this is the same hack who wrote Prometheus which was likewise incoherent nonsense it became clearer.

2) The reason why an English actor was cast as Khan....wait for it.....political correctness. Right out of the mouth of Roberto Orci:

Basically, as we went through the casting process and we began honing in on the themes of the movie, it became uncomfortable for me to support demonizing anyone of color, particularly any one of Middle Eastern descent or anyone evoking that. One of the points of the movie is that we must be careful about the villain within US, not some other race - Roberto Orci on Trekmovie.com

The stupidity of this statement is stunning. If he really felt like this, then DON'T MAKE THE VILLAIN KHAN. Make him a different augment and if you want have him name drop Khan as "the greatest of our warlords" who disappeared near the end of the wars. Casting an English actor as Khan was just dumb.

Back to Star Wars, all the better that neither one of these goobers is on this project. Abrams is directing and Kasdan appears to (at this point) be the primary screenwriter.

Just to add to these observations, Re the bolded.
Khan's story is not a story about the "villain within us", he is a genetically engineered superman. His story is one about being wary of PRIDE in our own skills and feeling like we can play "god". Khan would have been a better villain in to replace Nero in ST:2009 as 2009 has more of a "cost of pride" theme running through it. The "villain within" storyline is FAR more akin to Shinzon in ST: Nemesis as an individual and the Son'a/Federation alliance in Insurrection, both movies considered to be fairly crappy entries in the ST movie canon (though I do actually like Insurrection).
ST:2009 - Khan like story - works
ST: I.D. - Shinzon like storyline - crappola.

Writers really should know what "trope like device" they are really writing for....................

 

[Overmind One]

I should add that I started wondering how the same director (Abrams) could turn out a sound Trek entry in Trek 2009 then turn out incoherent nonsense in ST:Into Darkness. Research revealed some interesting nuggets:

1) The screenplay for Into Darkness was written by Damon Lindelof who was not involved in the scripting of the first film. After discovering this the fact that this is the same hack who wrote Prometheus which was likewise incoherent nonsense it became clearer.

2) The reason why an English actor was cast as Khan....wait for it.....political correctness. Right out of the mouth of Roberto Orci:

Basically, as we went through the casting process and we began honing in on the themes of the movie, it became uncomfortable for me to support demonizing anyone of color, particularly any one of Middle Eastern descent or anyone evoking that. One of the points of the movie is that we must be careful about the villain within US, not some other race - Roberto Orci on Trekmovie.com

The stupidity of this statement is stunning. If he really felt like this, then DON'T MAKE THE VILLAIN KHAN. Make him a different augment and if you want have him name drop Khan as "the greatest of our warlords" who disappeared near the end of the wars. Casting an English actor as Khan was just dumb.

Back to Star Wars, all the better that neither one of these goobers is on this project. Abrams is directing and Kasdan appears to (at this point) be the primary screenwriter.

MIDDLE EASTERN??? That proves that these hacks never watched Trek. Kahn Noonien Singh was an INDIAN. A South Asian. Singh is not an Arab, Middle Eastern or Muslim surname. .

I liked the 2009 movie because of the new cast, and because I was jonesing for Trek after a long hiatus. But STID killed it and now retroactively I dislike the 2009 movie because it verifies what I saw in the first (dumbness): Abrams does not care about Trek. He has cut out it's science fiction heart and replaced it with textured vegetable protein.

STID only used Kahn as filler. This was a standard baiting/steal another moment thing with Abrams. In the 2009 movie, we had Nero shouting "Spooooock", and there was no spark from fans, so he tried again with Spock's yelling of "Kaaaahn!", and the re-enactment of the dying scene from TWoK. This story was not Kahn, and Spock Prime was there strictly for bait. This movie did not do as well as the first, and the third movie will do worse than this one did. Perhaps Paramount will take the hint and dump NuTrek (but keep the cast!). They should have gotten Ronald Moore to write this last Trek. Given hard guidelines, he does very well with it. And dump this lame new alternate timeline.

Star Trek (NuTrek) 4 Synopsis:

Captain Kirk confines Spock to quarters after discovering him and Uhura "shorting circuits" in a Jeffries tube on the Enterprise. Little does he know that while those two were in there, the warp drive circuit got fused and the ship races to Warp 9.9 and the plasma injectors are jammed wide open. The Enterprise enters a strange anomaly which throws them into a new (the original) timeline. Readings on the bridge are strange, and at first the crew does not realize that they are in a different timeline, but then they are hailed by Vulcan Command. Spock is released from quarters and allowed to go home to visit his mother who is still alive in this timeline. He goes back to the Vulcan Academy to master being logical. Uhura is dumped as a girlfriend, and becomes normal again. Scotty's crusty little sidekick is lost in a transporter accident, never to be seen again. Chekhov is killed off, but a new ensign is assigned who has brown hair, a less contrived Russian accent and is a bit older...and his last name is.....Chekhov!

No Kahn yet (cause he is still drifting in the Botany Bay), and no tribbles (until we meet Harry Mudd), no transwarp beaming. Oh, and Spock Prime dies in the first scene of the movie. Carol Marcus...she just goes somewhere and puts her clothes back on. And that horrible ship, it gets destroyed somehow in a horrible way which makes it so it cant be rebuilt using the same design.

A guy can dream cant he?

 

[Gatefan1976]

Yes, they should have left it in RDM's hands, but given him a boss who could tell him when to pull his head in. Jonathan Frakes, Levar Burton or Wil Weaton spring to mind, because those three really *GET* Trek. Before I get bombarded with "WIl Weaton, WTF??" He was, even before being Wesley, a hardcore trekie and would not allow such stupid abuse of the source.

 

[shavedape]

I believe you and I discussed in a thread a couple of years ago about location shoots and the personnel and the extreme waste of money. I say we are looking at about $500,000-$1,000,000 worth of setup trailers, tents, personnel, food and other logistics. Why the Abu Dhabi Desert in Saudi Arabia? What was wrong with the Mojave? Is the sand any different? Are the hundreds of miles of desert sand different somehow? . But some gullibles will be impressed when they say "Star Wars VII is the most expensive movie ever produced!". A $50,000 hammer bought by the DoD is nothing compared to the cost of ONE location shoot for a major production, especially in a foreign land. Starbucks catering alone is thousands.

Im hoping for the best, and of the two properties of Trek and Star Wars, only Star Wars has promise because Trek is still being written by the hacks Lindelof and Orci and Kurtzman. Its done. But my spidey senses tell me that JJ will fatally wound Star Wars with additions and too much flash and flare and movement. Thinking that JJ can pull this off after his work on Trek anbd before that, is like expecting to see roses spring forth from a mound of dog poo.

I'm thinking (hoping) that they're trying to go back to the SW roots by doing some location shooting this time around. From what I understand those prequels were shot almost 100% on green screen -- and it showed.

I don't mind them doing location shooting now if it's going to give these movies that realistic and gritty feel that the first movie had. Remember how the grittiness of Tatooine made the the first movie very realistic? Dirty dented land cruisers, dirty, dented droids, dirty dented ships, and little of that spotless, sparkling nonsense we got in the prequels where every single ship spotlessly shined and shimmered.

As for wasting money just to be able to say that these are the most expensive movies ever produced, yes, that's just dumb. That shows a lack of focus on what is important in favor of trivial matters such as catering. Want Starbucks while shooting in the desert outside of Abu DHabi? Really? Why not just drink the local brew? Is a ridiculously overpriced cup of Starbucks going to magically make the cast and crew perform better? I just don't get our way of thinking sometimes. :jaded:

 

[shavedape]

I should add that I started wondering how the same director (Abrams) could turn out a sound Trek entry in Trek 2009 then turn out incoherent nonsense in ST:Into Darkness. Research revealed some interesting nuggets:

1) The screenplay for Into Darkness was written by Damon Lindelof who was not involved in the scripting of the first film. After discovering this the fact that this is the same hack who wrote Prometheus which was likewise incoherent nonsense it became clearer.

2) The reason why an English actor was cast as Khan....wait for it.....political correctness. Right out of the mouth of Roberto Orci:

Basically, as we went through the casting process and we began honing in on the themes of the movie, it became uncomfortable for me to support demonizing anyone of color, particularly any one of Middle Eastern descent or anyone evoking that. One of the points of the movie is that we must be careful about the villain within US, not some other race - Roberto Orci on Trekmovie.com

The stupidity of this statement is stunning. If he really felt like this, then DON'T MAKE THE VILLAIN KHAN. Make him a different augment and if you want have him name drop Khan as "the greatest of our warlords" who disappeared near the end of the wars. Casting an English actor as Khan was just dumb.

Back to Star Wars, all the better that neither one of these goobers is on this project. Abrams is directing and Kasdan appears to (at this point) be the primary screenwriter.

OMG, I'm still reeling from reading this post. The stupidity of the people involved is incomprehensible to me. How Lindelof continues to get work is baffling. And as for Orci's political correctness, that too is incomprehensible to me. Just because the character of Khan isn't anglo that doesn't automatically mean that by being a villain he's racially demeaned. He is highly intelligent and in many ways superior to his opponents (that's kind of the reason Kirk wanted to get rid of his kind, isn't it?). He isn't just a dark-skinned thug out to wreak havoc but rather a superior intellect and advanced physical specimen with plenty of depth. Having him be Asian is not the same as having him be a cartoonish stereotype.

 

[YJ02]

I believe you and I discussed in a thread a couple of years ago about location shoots and the personnel and the extreme waste of money. I say we are looking at about $500,000-$1,000,000 worth of setup trailers, tents, personnel, food and other logistics. Why the Abu Dhabi Desert in Saudi Arabia? What was wrong with the Mojave? Is the sand any different? Are the hundreds of miles of desert sand different somehow? . But some gullibles will be impressed when they say "Star Wars VII is the most expensive movie ever produced!". A $50,000 hammer bought by the DoD is nothing compared to the cost of ONE location shoot for a major production, especially in a foreign land. Starbucks catering alone is thousands.

Im hoping for the best, and of the two properties of Trek and Star Wars, only Star Wars has promise because Trek is still being written by the hacks Lindelof and Orci and Kurtzman. Its done. But my spidey senses tell me that JJ will fatally wound Star Wars with additions and too much flash and flare and movement. Thinking that JJ can pull this off after his work on Trek anbd before that, is like expecting to see roses spring forth from a mound of dog poo.

Abu Dhabi-being a part of the UAE (not Saudi) is a very wealthy country looking for all things and opportunities 'western' to help improve their image. I would not be surprised if the Emirs were footing the entire bill of filming, location costs, operations, etc

This is the same nation that built a very,very large indoor ski slope with snow making machines that are better than most others in the world. It is also the place where the filed in massive amounts of coastline with desert rock and sand, to build housing developments accessible by boat and land, that are designed in different shapes-only to be seem from the air or in orbit

So, they are no strangers to waste

 

[YJ02]

I should add that I started wondering how the same director (Abrams) could turn out a sound Trek entry in Trek 2009 then turn out incoherent nonsense in ST:Into Darkness. Research revealed some interesting nuggets:

1) The screenplay for Into Darkness was written by Damon Lindelof who was not involved in the scripting of the first film. After discovering this the fact that this is the same hack who wrote Prometheus which was likewise incoherent nonsense it became clearer.

2) The reason why an English actor was cast as Khan....wait for it.....political correctness. Right out of the mouth of Roberto Orci:

Basically, as we went through the casting process and we began honing in on the themes of the movie, it became uncomfortable for me to support demonizing anyone of color, particularly any one of Middle Eastern descent or anyone evoking that. One of the points of the movie is that we must be careful about the villain within US, not some other race - Roberto Orci on Trekmovie.com

The stupidity of this statement is stunning. If he really felt like this, then DON'T MAKE THE VILLAIN KHAN. Make him a different augment and if you want have him name drop Khan as "the greatest of our warlords" who disappeared near the end of the wars. Casting an English actor as Khan was just dumb.

Back to Star Wars, all the better that neither one of these goobers is on this project. Abrams is directing and Kasdan appears to (at this point) be the primary screenwriter.

Ironic since Orci and Abrams in FRINGE had a oh so subtle but hugely noticeable ethnic "oops" (was it intentional ?)

Did anyone else catch that the 'master race' from the future (the observers) were all from the future Scandinavia and were all white males cloned from Norwegian donors?

 

[Overmind One]

Ironic since Orci and Abrams in FRINGE had a oh so subtle but hugely noticeable ethnic "oops" (was it intentional ?)

Did anyone else catch that the 'master race' from the future (the observers) were all from the future Scandinavia and were all white males cloned from Norwegian donors?

Funny you should mention that. Why do you not see any comments from me in the Fringe thread? You have your answer. I just never said anything about it, 'cause you know how I get in those discussions.

 

[Overmind One]

Yes, they should have left it in RDM's hands, but given him a boss who could tell him when to pull his head in. Jonathan Frakes, Levar Burton or Wil Weaton spring to mind, because those three really *GET* Trek. Before I get bombarded with "WIl Weaton, WTF??" He was, even before being Wesley, a hardcore trekie and would not allow such stupid abuse of the source.

Im okay with Wil Wheaton . I think the other names you mentioned are right in line with who should be driving the Trek franchise in terms of writing. This NuTrek thing is not fulfilling.

 

[Gatefan1976]

The final nail:

http://thedisneyblog.com/2014/04/25...ard-expanded-universe-for-alternate-universe/

Utter fools.

 

[Joelist]

GF why the surprise? The EU is not that widely known so for them to confine the upcoming films to elements presented in prior movies and/or Clone Wars actually makes sense. And like they said in the video the EU is still being worked just as a separate line.

 

[Gatefan1976]

GF why the surprise?

I'm not surprised Joe, more like seriously disappointed to be honest.

The EU is not that widely known

You underestimate the fanbase of the EU Joe. I'll grant that the most........... rabid of the EU fans are more knowledgeable about the EU of the Old Republic setting simply due to the fact of the KOTOR and the SW:TOR games made them far more accessable to the general public, and that's not the settings of these movies; but it is far more well known than you may think.

so for them to confine the upcoming films to elements presented in prior movies and/or Clone Wars actually makes sense.

Tons of TCW is sourced from the EU, and Rebels is going to draw off the EU as well. I get what you are saying in that the "canon source" is more generically known, and I have no real beef with it, but to ignore so much just seems........ foolish.

And like they said in the video the EU is still being worked just as a separate line.

Not exactly, they are trying to create a cohesive canon for ALL of SW. They will take bits and pieces from the EU that they like, or works at the time and trash what they don't like. What I guess frustrates me in that scenario is that the EU, especially the post movie EU has consistently built on what came before. Sure there are some "one shot" stories, but for the most part it has been a consistent build. It's like taking the foundations of the building away and putting new ones in and trying to keep the window, or door, or lintel that you like. Sure, they are still good, but the entire building simply isn't the same.

 

[Joelist]

By separate line I mean they don't appear to plan to put the EU in movies. Rather it will be in other media.

As to Clone Wars, note I said "and/or". That is because that part is REALLY unclear. It is very possible they will also ignore Clone Wars too and go solely off of the six theatrical movies. Now if it were me I would do the needed thing here and also openly declare the prequels non-canonical so they are not bound by those pieces of dreck.

I know the EU has an audience as it consists of books, videos and games (video, RPG and board). I have read some of it and overall I found it wildly uneven. Zahn's trilogy was good stuff but some of the other stuff with weird elements like Luke turning to the dark side, clones of Palpatine and so on were naff to me.

If I had to venture a wild guess as to a plot, with the time set as 35 years after Jedi it probably has Luke as the Jedi Master rebuilding the order and Han and Leia as important leaders in the New Republic. And all three will probably face struggles along the way which will form the basis for the film. Their biggest challenge will be creating credible new threats when not only did Jedi tie everything up neatly but 35 years have passed to boot.

 

[Overmind One]

I'm not surprised Joe, more like seriously disappointed to be honest.

You underestimate the fanbase of the EU Joe. I'll grant that the most........... rabid of the EU fans are more knowledgeable about the EU of the Old Republic setting simply due to the fact of the KOTOR and the SW:TOR games made them far more accessable to the general public, and that's not the settings of these movies; but it is far more well known than you may think.


Tons of TCW is sourced from the EU, and Rebels is going to draw off the EU as well. I get what you are saying in that the "canon source" is more generically known, and I have no real beef with it, but to ignore so much just seems........ foolish.


Not exactly, they are trying to create a cohesive canon for ALL of SW. They will take bits and pieces from the EU that they like, or works at the time and trash what they don't like. What I guess frustrates me in that scenario is that the EU, especially the post movie EU has consistently built on what came before. Sure there are some "one shot" stories, but for the most part it has been a consistent build. It's like taking the foundations of the building away and putting new ones in and trying to keep the window, or door, or lintel that you like. Sure, they are still good, but the entire building simply isn't the same.

They are going to gut it in the end, and it will take the shape of whatever it needs to be most appealing to a specific demographic. I think Rebels is going to be more enjoyable for me, since I thoroughly enjoyed TCW. It was like watching hundreds of Star Wars movies in a row.

Having said that, I have to agree with Joelist about the EU. In the United States, the EU is not nearly as widely known as elsewhere. There are rabid fans, but most average Star Wars fans here only watch the movies and nothing else Star Wars. You do not see marketing for the EU books, although they frequently will be featured for a short time at Barnes and Noble. So, the movies need to introduce most everything to the majority of the viewers to make them carry forward.

OMG look what happened to Trek. Almost a complete clean sweep of the board.

 

[Gatefan1976]

By separate line I mean they don't appear to plan to put the EU in movies. Rather it will be in other media.

Sure, but it seems, oh, I dunno, "cannibalistic"?? Taking what you consider to be the best "cuts" and throwing the rest away...........
My opinion of course, but it just sits badly with me.

As to Clone Wars, note I said "and/or". That is because that part is REALLY unclear. It is very possible they will also ignore Clone Wars too and go solely off of the six theatrical movies.

Nope, TCW is now part of official canon, so if they left anything out, well, though for that bit. There is a whole team dedicated, right now, to picking and choosing just what is Canon because of this project.

Now if it were me I would do the needed thing here and also openly declare the prequels non-canonical so they are not bound by those pieces of dreck.

Now we are just discussing what we would like or not like

I know the EU has an audience as it consists of books, videos and games (video, RPG and board). I have read some of it and overall I found it wildly uneven.

Such as?

Zahn's trilogy was good stuff but some of the other stuff with weird elements like Luke turning to the dark side, clones of Palpatine and so on were naff to me.

That's the Dark Empire "comic books" yes?
If so, WHY Luke went DS is explained, but clones having the same force powers was a little bit off I agree. Having said that If it is the "midicloreans" as established in SW1, it makes more sense.

If I had to venture a wild guess as to a plot, with the time set as 35 years after Jedi it probably has Luke as the Jedi Master rebuilding the order and Han and Leia as important leaders in the New Republic. And all three will probably face struggles along the way which will form the basis for the film. Their biggest challenge will be creating credible new threats when not only did Jedi tie everything up neatly but 35 years have passed to boot.

Hence why something like Zhan's books would have been perfect source material, the foe is the Imperial Remnant lead by a tactical genius in Thrawn.

 

[Joelist]

Indeed. I would source the new films off of Zahn's work and just update it slightly to reflect 35 years passing.

As to the Dark Empire comics and such, they "explained" Luke turning to the dark side but it fell totally flat and basically made a mockery of Luke having been through the crucible in Empire and Jedi and not turning.

 

[Gatefan1976]

They are going to gut it in the end, and it will take the shape of whatever it needs to be most appealing to a specific demographic. I think Rebels is going to be more enjoyable for me, since I thoroughly enjoyed TCW. It was like watching hundreds of Star Wars movies in a row.

And ALOT of that material only exists DUE to the EU dude, both the stuff you liked and the stuff you didn't. I get what you are saying about the Demo in terms of "sales" and "success", and you are quite right on that point.

Having said that, I have to agree with Joelist about the EU. In the United States, the EU is not nearly as widely known as elsewhere. There are rabid fans, but most average Star Wars fans here only watch the movies and nothing else Star Wars. You do not see marketing for the EU books, although they frequently will be featured for a short time at Barnes and Noble. So, the movies need to introduce most everything to the majority of the viewers to make them carry forward.

Ergh, again.
Books have very small "rave runs", and sell the majority of their product in the first 1-3 weeks and have no other production run. Why would a book moving company not move onto the next "big thing"?

OMG look what happened to Trek. Almost a complete clean sweep of the board.

And do you think that was a good thing?

 

[Gatefan1976]

Indeed. I would source the new films off of Zahn's work and just update it slightly to reflect 35 years passing.

It won't work though dude, you would have to pull stuff from lots of books to build that storyline coherently. You would have to kick the whole Mara Jade idea, Jorus C'baoth would be looking for the Solo-Skywalker kids (if that even happened), you would skip all of Leia's training..............
Ergh

As to the Dark Empire comics and such, they "explained" Luke turning to the dark side but it fell totally flat and basically made a mockery of Luke having been through the crucible in Empire and Jedi and not turning.

[/quote]
Luke was trying to save his dad, when he turns he is trying to understand the force better.
Yes, it is an odd concept, and I must admit I was not a fan of the Dark Empire series in part because of that, but one or 2 elements against some very good other ideas won't break the entire concept.

 

[Overmind One]

It won't work though dude, you would have to pull stuff from lots of books to build that storyline coherently. You would have to kick the whole Mara Jade idea, Jorus C'baoth would be looking for the Solo-Skywalker kids (if that even happened), you would skip all of Leia's training..............
Ergh

Luke was trying to save his dad, when he turns he is trying to understand the force better.
Yes, it is an odd concept, and I must admit I was not a fan of the Dark Empire series in part because of that, but one or 2 elements against some very good other ideas won't break the entire concept.

But see, how many people know about Leia's training? Who is Mara Jade? Jorus C'baoth? My bet is that the new movies will make people want to know more about the EU and perhaps Rebels will also give it a boost. Im curious myself! There is lots of EC (extended canon) Trek lore, and up until Abrams ruined it, names for characters frequently came from EC. Nyota Uhuru, Hikaru Sulu and the name Tiberius for Kirk's middle name came from EC lore.

The new movies will likely only use elements from the previous movies, although they could use them to introduce new ones or ones from the EU canon. Disney will be doing Star Wars for quite some time to come, so I am sure they will continue to draw upon it.