So how was your day?

[Bluce Ree]

to the bolded part, yes and no: Stalin also was certifiable...the man would decide there was a "conspiracy" somewhere and go on a "bloody purge"... they would have beat us to the moon if he hadn't decided to "purge" the air force of "enemies" during the latter part of the 1940's and early 1950's and killed off their top aeronautical engineers. His desire was not merely to kill off those who were religious but anyone he felt like killing off on any particular day. Some forensic psychologists have wondered if he was a paranoid schizophrenic, others just say he had a sociopathic personality. Love the tyrants...they make abnormal psych classes so interesting. Can't forget those who followed him : Kruschev, Breshnev, Andropov, etc... all persecuted those who disagreed with them. The religous people they merely sent to mental institutions! and that is merely among the old USSR.

I agree, Stalin was certifiable.

Why is it that the crazy ones are always the ones who are able to make changes on a global scale?

The world's anti-semitic attitude at the time allowed Hilter to kill the Jews without worrying about anyone complaining. I beleive the US deserves condemnation for their attitudes/actions of the time. this is but one reason I admit to worrying when I see a rise in anti-semitism today. Edmund Burke was paraphrased by Winston Churchill very well: “Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.”

Another good point. I grew up color blind (figuratively) and unaware of differences. My parents were very liberal and open minded in that sense, too. Still, to this day, I cannot understand how someone can hate someone else because of their beliefs or skin color or culture.

 

[Graybrew1]

Apples and oranges. Criminals are driven by opportunity, greed, passion, etc. Gang members can be coerced. Their ideals can be corrupted and their loyalties bought.

Religious fanatics are far more dangerous because they're not driven by material needs or opportunity or greed or passion. They are driven by their faith and belief that they are acting on behalf of a higher power. They can't be reasoned with, can't be coerced and can't be bought. A religious fanatic can recruit followers who, in turn, may become fanatics themselves, which is how a cult works.

Look at the IRA. They are very different from Muslim terrorists. IRA did not engage in suicide bombings but, instead, used a dispicable tactic called the "proxy bomb" whereby they would hold hostage the family member(s) of a British police or military officer and force them to drive a bomb to their intended target. They believed in their cause but not to a religious extent where they were willing to sacrifice their own lives for acts of terrorism.

A Muslim Jihadist, on the other hand, will detonate themselves without a second thought because they are indoctrinated to believe they're doing Allah's will. It is a cult mentality. They will even murder their own family members in what's called an honor killing, which is apparently allowed under Sharia law.

Fair enough.

But only the lowly followers are really willing to die for their cause. You notice where they found Osama Bin Laden? Was he really in it for the religion? Or was he another oppurtunist? The gang leaders and gangsters are just more honest about their greed for money and power.

 

[shavedape]

I didn't want to get too specific about the subject so I was speaking more in the abstract when I mentioned "tribes". I was talking about the fact that humans tend to group together and then exclude and persecute those that don't conform and/or meet the criteria of membership in said tribe.

Eric Hoffer manages to get at some of the psychological reasons in his book The True Believer. Everyone should read it at least once.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer

 

[EvilSpaceAlien]

#1. You'll have to explain the "poutine" reference for us Americans.

#2. At any point in the SGU commentary did anyone admit they didn't know what they hell they were doing while making it?

#1. Well David Blue and Brian J. Smith are just talking about how they think poutine is disgusting while Elyse thinks that she should come to the dish's defense or something. I dunno. They way she said it just felt really funny to me.

#2. Naw, they're talking about how much fun it was filming, nitpicking about lines and scenes they think they could've done differently, etc. Y'know, normal commentary stuff.

 

[shavedape]

Mass movements can rise and spread without belief in a God, but never without belief in a devil. Usually the strength of a mass movement is proportionate to the vividness and tangibility of its devil. — P.86

Eric Hoffer The True Believer

 

[Rac80]

I agree, Stalin was certifiable.

Why is it that the crazy ones are always the ones who are able to make changes on a global scale?



Another good point. I grew up color blind (figuratively) and unaware of differences. My parents were very liberal and open minded in that sense, too. Still, to this day, I cannot understand how someone can hate someone else because of their beliefs or skin color or culture.

When snookie was small we lived in housing at Purdue University and she got to know a variety of children from a variety of backgrounds. it was very enriching for me as well. I grew up in a small town (less than 700 people) town in maine that was WASP (white anglo saxon protestant) and it was a "union" town so new people NEVER moved in it seemed. We were unusual with our jewish/german background (grandpa met grandma in philadephia PA- he was a sailor- at the beginning of WWI, she still had a rather thick accent I understand) and people called us "newcomers" because of mom's family even though they had lived there since 1918. Going away to college, even the mostly white bread BYU was an eye opener for me. I loved it and I loved meeting people from all over the world. Purdue was even better...we had Indian neghbors and Korean neighbors, and Chinese (they are still close friends of ours) and neighbors from the USSR (Purdue is a HUGE engineering school). I got to meet people from all over the world (met an interesting aussie couple at BYU - sweethearts) and am pleased to say that bigotry doesn't enter into my attitudes or snookies. (Hubby's from the greater boston area...not bigoted at all!) I feel knowng people from all over will help dispell bigotry...ignorance is the root of bigotry IMHO.

 

[Stonelesscutter]

So what the heck is poutine?

 

[Graybrew1]

So what the heck is poutine?

It seems it is something that I will not be eating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine

Chttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutinearbs, Fat and Dairy..................OH My.

 

[Stonelesscutter]

It seems it is something that I will not be eating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine

Carbs, Fat and Dairy..................OH My.

The french fries look good, the rest not so much.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Fair enough.

But only the lowly followers are really willing to die for their cause. You notice where they found Osama Bin Laden? Was he really in it for the religion? Or was he another oppurtunist? The gang leaders and gangsters are just more honest about their greed for money and power.

You're right about Osama. I don't believe for one second Osama was in it for the religion. However, his followers were and that's what matters. He made his people believe in a made-up religious cause and they bought it hook, line and sinker because he *knew* that the most dangerous and dedicated hired guns he could recruit are the ones he can indoctrinate to believe what was being laid out before them was a religious cause, the will of Allah and the eternal battle against the Infidel. He may have ran Al Qaeda under false pretenses but you will never convince *any* of his followers of that. That is the depth and power of religious indoctrination and how religion can be perverted into a powerful weapon.

 

[Bluce Ree]

The french fries look good, the rest not so much.

French fries and cheese curds covered in a gravy. I'll crave one maybe once or twice a year, at which point I go from :icon_e_biggrin: to :puke:
I then remember why I stayed away from them.

 

[Graybrew1]

You're right about Osama. I don't believe for one second Osama was in it for the religion. However, his followers were and that's what matters. He made his people believe in a made-up religious cause and they bought it hook, line and sinker because he *knew* that the most dangerous and dedicated hired guns he could recruit are the ones he can indoctrinate to believe what was being laid out before them was a religious cause, the will of Allah and the eternal against the Infidel. He may have ran Al Qaeda under false pretenses but you will never convince *any* of his followers of that. That is the depth and power of religious indoctrination and how religion can be perverted into a powerful weapon.

Ah, but don't forget it is the emotion involved with the religion that makes it okay to kill for or die for. People will kill for love too. Love of a mate, for a child or a parent. In religion it is their love for God. People will kill for addiction too, but when you truly love something isn't it just another form of addiction anyway?

 

[SciphonicStranger]

I completed a mid-term exam today for a database course I'm taking. Pretty relieved that I managed to complete it with a favourable result.

So how was your day?

Good job! We may be able to put you to work here at Gatefans someday.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Ah, but don't forget it is the emotion involved with the religion that makes it okay to kill for or die for. People will kill for love too. Love of a mate, for a child or a parent. In religion it is their love for God. People will kill for addiction too, but when you truly love something isn't it just another form of addiction anyway?

You're talking about crimes of passion and opportunity. You will never recruit an army of jealous bastards who believe their wives are cheating on them to fly planes into buildings, knowing full well it's a one-way trip.

A prison full of killers and murders will never hold a candle to a cult with the single belief that the sole purpose of their existence is to end yours at any cost, including their own lives.

 

[Graybrew1]

You're talking about crimes of passion and opportunity. You will never recruit an army of jealous bastards who believe their wives are cheating on them to fly planes into buildings, knowing full well it's a one-way trip.

A prison full of killers and murders will never hold a candle to a cult with the single belief that the sole purpose of their existence is to end yours at any cost, including their own lives.

It is a good thing I have so much hair, because this is my ripping it out now!!!!
Which part of my post did you disagree with? The religion involves emotion? The emotion creates the abilitity to take a life? Or that addiction is involved when emotion becomes that deep?

I don't doubt for a minute that somebody would take down a plane to kill their object of interest. The point is that they are not required too. The zealots don't wish one person dead, they wish all that opposed their love dead. In their case the love is their religion.

 

[Rac80]

You're right about Osama. I don't believe for one second Osama was in it for the religion. However, his followers were and that's what matters. He made his people believe in a made-up religious cause and they bought it hook, line and sinker because he *knew* that the most dangerous and dedicated hired guns he could recruit are the ones he can indoctrinate to believe what was being laid out before them was a religious cause, the will of Allah and the eternal battle against the Infidel. He may have ran Al Qaeda under false pretenses but you will never convince *any* of his followers of that. That is the depth and power of religious indoctrination and how religion can be perverted into a powerful weapon.

many professionals in psychology consider what happens at SOME (and I stress only some) madrasahs that focus on young men from 8 to 16 ,to be classic brainwashing techniques. Isolationism, demonization of your enemy, etc... are considered to be classic signs. Also some jihadists who have been captured by the west exhibit brainwashed behaviors. but then that is merely the opinons of some psychologists.

 

[Bluce Ree]

It is a good thing I have so much hair, because this is my ripping it out now!!!!
Which part of my post did you disagree with? The religion involves emotion? The emotion creates the abilitity to take a life? Or that addiction is involved when emotion becomes that deep?

I don't doubt for a minute that somebody would take down a plane to kill their object of interest. The point is that they are not required too. The zealots don't wish one person dead, they wish all that opposed their love dead. In their case the love is their religion.

I'm not disagreeing with your post. I'm pointing out the differences between your examples of violence driven by a moment or situation vs indoctrinated cult-mindset violence. Your examples are crimes of passion and opportunity. "Somebody" shooting down a plane with a bazooka is not the same as "a group of people" flying planes into buildings in the name of a higher power. There's a very distinct difference.

 

[Bluce Ree]

many professionals in psychology consider what happens at SOME (and I stress only some) madrasahs that focus on young men from 8 to 16 ,to be classic brainwashing techniques. Isolationism, demonization of your enemy, etc... are considered to be classic signs. Also some jihadists who have been captured by the west exhibit brainwashed behaviors. but then that is merely the opinons of some psychologists.

I'm not surprised. Cults brainwash their members. How else could the Heaven's Gate cult have convinced its members into a mass suicide?

 

[Bluce Ree]

When snookie was small we lived in housing at Purdue University and she got to know a variety of children from a variety of backgrounds. it was very enriching for me as well. I grew up in a small town (less than 700 people) town in maine that was WASP (white anglo saxon protestant) and it was a "union" town so new people NEVER moved in it seemed. We were unusual with our jewish/german background (grandpa met grandma in philadephia PA- he was a sailor- at the beginning of WWI, she still had a rather thick accent I understand) and people called us "newcomers" because of mom's family even though they had lived there since 1918. Going away to college, even the mostly white bread BYU was an eye opener for me. I loved it and I loved meeting people from all over the world. Purdue was even better...we had Indian neghbors and Korean neighbors, and Chinese (they are still close friends of ours) and neighbors from the USSR (Purdue is a HUGE engineering school). I got to meet people from all over the world (met an interesting aussie couple at BYU - sweethearts) and am pleased to say that bigotry doesn't enter into my attitudes or snookies. (Hubby's from the greater boston area...not bigoted at all!) I feel knowng people from all over will help dispell bigotry...ignorance is the root of bigotry IMHO.

I like that post. Have some green.

Edit: Hmmm ... it's telling me I already gave you green but I can't remember when.

 

[SciphonicStranger]

I like that post. Have some green.

Edit: Hmmm ... it's telling me I already gave you green but I can't remember when.

A simple tip, if you green one of my posts then maybe you can green Rac again.