Second American Civil War. If Every U.S. State Declared War Against the Others, Which Would Win?

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Just WOW. I ran across a great article chronicling a scenario where the US is dissolved in a second Civil War, and going over the events which turn the region into new nations. INTERESTING read:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/20...l_declared_war.html?google_editors_picks=true

Snippet...

New York pushed Northward. They pushed to claim all of New England and the food wealth they will need to supply their people now that resources from the Midwest are no longer available. The take over is mostly peaceful as many of the states have large, but mostly non-military populations. They encountered problems when large groups of refugees tried to flee to Canada and rioting ensued.
Illinois was calm. The Midwest Alliance grew steadily by seeking to secure the Great Lakes. They were able to take Ohio through a few fierce, but brief encounters. They also took on Minnesota and the mouth of the Mississippi River.

The West coast was now controlled by the two main powers -- California with its seat of power in San Francisco and The North West Union, centered in Seattle. California gained support and took control of all the states West of the Continental Divide and South of the Union. The North West Union pushed as far as Wyoming.
 

OMNI

My avatar speaks for itself.
neat little read. would make a decent movie or tv series, if done like band of brothers or the pacific ie telling stories from dif POV's each episode..
 

Rac80

The Belle of the Ball
easy- the states with liberal gun laws would win- we'd have an armed populace who knows how to shoot! ;) that was an interesting read. we have become a nation of givers and takers and the givers are getting sick of giving! :P
 

shavedape

Well Known GateFan
I can't imagine Illinois being calm, namely Chicago.

Any such scenario would realistically include a lot of people dying I would think. You can't quickly create a new civilization without cracking a few eggs.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
neat little read. would make a decent movie or tv series, if done like band of brothers or the pacific ie telling stories from dif POV's each episode..

I was thinking the same thing. It would be very cool indeed. It would have to be set in the future, of course...could be so cool if it was a series!
--- merged: Nov 28, 2012 at 9:53 AM ---
easy- the states with liberal gun laws would win- we'd have an armed populace who knows how to shoot! ;) that was an interesting read. we have become a nation of givers and takers and the givers are getting sick of giving! :P

Those states would be able to hold their own, but only the states with military bases and access to an ocean coastline could wage war on a large scale. The landlocked states would be supported by coastal based forces. The states with liberal gun laws would fare well because of the armed civilians, but could not be as powerful as those with large military installations. :) The givers are also sick of the takers who hoard all the wealth, and warring with them would probably start the war in the first place, like it has been in all countries which had a top-heavy aristocracy. Revolution happens when the middle class becomes fed up.
--- merged: Nov 28, 2012 at 9:54 AM ---
I can't imagine Illinois being calm, namely Chicago.

Any such scenario would realistically include a lot of people dying I would think. You can't quickly create a new civilization without cracking a few eggs.

LOTS and lots of eggs. There would be carnage.
 

EvilSpaceAlien

Sinister Swede
"Here's the latest news from the Second American Civil War: Well, everyone's dead and now Canada's up there wondering what the hell just happened. Good night folks."
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
I was thinking the same thing. It would be very cool indeed. It would have to be set in the future, of course...could be so cool if it was a series!

It could be set in present time as an alternate reality mini-series. Wouldn't that be an original idea for Syfylys? A show chronicling alternate history and showing alternate present day realities every week. There was a show once similar in concept called Sliders. It sucked after season 3, though, when they went all Hollywood with it. :(
 

Rac80

The Belle of the Ball
ooh i remember sliders- it was a fun show!
 

shavedape

Well Known GateFan
It could be set in present time as an alternate reality mini-series. Wouldn't that be an original idea for Syfylys? A show chronicling alternate history and showing alternate present day realities every week. There was a show once similar in concept called Sliders. It sucked after season 3, though, when they went all Hollywood with it. :(

Sliders became Butt Sliders when they had Jerry O'Connell's developmentally disabled brother take over the lead role. It also took a dump when they lost John Rhys-Davies from the cast.
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
Sliders became Butt Sliders when they had Jerry O'Connell's developmentally disabled brother take over the lead role. It also took a dump when they lost John Rhys-Davies from the cast.

The first 2 seasons were the best. It was basically serial but TPTB wanted the show to be more episodic so they can be mixed & matched in syndication, so they brought in Peckinpah for the 3rd season, who turned the show into an "action" series instead. That's when things started gong downhill.

Season 3 they lost JRD, who wrote his own exit episode. He left over creative differences (i.e. he didn't like the show's new direction and neither did the viewers). He was replaced by Kari Wuhrer who was brought in purely as eye candy. Then they lost Sabrina Loyd and replaced her with Charlie O'Connell, I suppose because they felt there wasn't enough wooden acting in the series.

Season 4 was entirely shot on the same set, the Chandler Hotel. That's when they moved the show from Vancouver to Hollywood. Then Jerry O'Connell left for Season 5 for monetary reasons (he wanted more money) and Charlie was thrown out because, frankly, he was only there to make his brother happy. They were replaced by a dummy and a black doctor chick.

In the end, the only original actor left was Cleavant Derricks. They ended the series on a cliffhanger.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Read the whole thing--well mostly. Sorry, but to opine I must make another long post...

anyway
Yes, the states with the active military bases in them would have the obvious advantage. I do not agree with the author who says that soldiers "stationed in NY would not fight against Virginia", etc.. Soldiers/Marines are going to fight for who they serve with, not any state or leader. If they have their families with them, they are going to fight for what keeps their family safe where they are the safest. To assume that a soldier is going to leave his/her unit-with possibly a family in tow- is to assume that said person is going to be able to leave unnoticed, is going to be able to get packed up and out (family esp.), that he is going to be able to travel across the "battle lines" to their home state. Not to mention they would most likely not have their weapons/equipment. Personnel field gear (TA-50) yes, guns, ammo, military vehicle, radios, etc-doubt it.

the author also furthers this argument by using current enlistment by state numbers, and saying they all make it to the home state and that is what makes that state more powerful. Again, the weapons, equipment issue again, not to mention the want and ability to leave their assigned unit.

Today the strongest military states are probably Georgia and Texas. Using active duty bases in these states as well as Army Reserve, Army National Guard and Air National Guard strength in each state and these units roles/assigned equipment. Both states are heavy in Armor, Mechanized Infantry, Attack Aviation, Artillery, Air Defense and support units. PA and SC have large NG maneuver units as well but no assigned Active units.

This also--unless I missed it--fails to take account of the major military strength we have deployed overseas. We have major land and air forces in Germany, Italy, S Korea, Okinawa and Japan. What would the Generals of these forces choose to do? Where/would they even choose to re-deploy to the continental US? This forces would prove to be a major game changer.

Infrastructure/ food, clothing, ammo re-supply for mil and civ population. Where would it come from? Spare parts for the vehicles and aircraft, the tanks and bradleys--each unit only keeps "on-hand" the basic load for deployment. A majority of our military supply is not even in the US but "afloat" or "pre-po'd" in places like Diego Garcia, Bahrain, Germany, Okinawa, Korea, Kuwait. In short, if US based forces were to be used in war, they would quickly run out of bullets. National Guard units keep nothing (perhaps some small arms ammo) on hand. When/if deployed, Guard units are issued basic load ammo/re-supply at the active duty base they deploy from. For the northeast, this is Ft Drum, Ny and Ft Dix, NJ. the south; Ft Bragg, NC, Ft Benning, GA;mid west and western states-FT Hood TX and Ft Sill Oklahoma.

the major Air defense units--PATRIOT missile and THAAD units are stationed at Ft Sill Oklahoma. This leaves the rest of this fractured nation with no air defense save the man pack Stingers and Stinger firing Avenger systems organic to the maneuver units. Stinger missiles are only good for short range defense.

the devastating artillery power of the Multiple Launched rocket system (MLRS) is, in the main, stationed in Georgia and Texas with small units at Ft Bragg, NC. Again, most of these systems are overseas-forward deployed.

not to mention the nuke forces--who retains the "football" of the PoTUS? Who has the national command center? The subs? Tactically nuke the iniators of this rebellion and be done with it at the onset.

And then there is the fact that with volunteer forces--all who have a shared common experience in Basic Trng/ Boot camp, deployments to war, the lifestyle--I find it very hard to believe that they would fire on one another. Civilian militias-no problem. The National Guard--given the animosity felt among active duty towards our weekend warrior brethren, probably no problem firing on them as well.

I don't think that the forces behind this fracture would be able to do so. If no other agency can keep it all glued together, then the Active Forces-competently led, would keep this from happening. perhaps even leading to a military dictatorship until the "children" got themselves under control.

Frankly I am surprised that the author, a Marine, would even consider such a scenario; perhaps he did not get enough bloodletting in Iraq or A-stan. Or maybe he is a reservist who hasn't had his chance to "get in the sh1t" yet.
 
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