It has a name: Star Trek: Into Darkness.

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Yeah, it's Khan. You find out early on, too. Keep in mind this movie takes place a few years before season 1 of TOS and some 15 years before Wrath of Khan. You get a brief "oh, by the way" type of explanation of how and why he ended up here and now, so, Abrams doesn't leave you completely up shit's creek without an oar.

It looks like he wanted his own immortal "Wrath of Khan" movie but this one fails miserably and doesn't hit anywhere near the mark. I found the story stupid, the plot devises pointless and contrived and spent most of my time wondering why the f**k they didn't use technology already at their disposal to do certain things they took the long way around to do. It's difficult to disconnect and enjoy a story that totally ignores an established history, scientific and otherwise, including things as recent as the 2009 movie.

Their phasers are no longer phasers. The ship shoots light bolts, as do the hand weapons. The ship's "phasers" are no longer distinguishable from photon torpedoes.
--- merged: May 16, 2013 at 9:28 PM ---
I'm watching ST II on Syfylys right now to help wash away the stink of this morning's ordeal.
--- merged: May 16, 2013 at 9:30 PM ---


Bro, since it's pocket change to you, why not go see it? It's not a lot and it will lay some questions you have in mind to rest. You may like or you may find it as insulting to one's intelligence as I did. Either way, it'll be fun discussing it with someone else who's seen it.


so what's up with that other bigger ship in the trailer? excelsior class or some JJ machination?
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
so what's up with that other bigger ship in the trailer? excelsior class or some JJ machination?

It's an unsanctioned Starfleet vessel built with Khan's help by way of his advanced intelligence under the supervision of Admiral Marcus, who wants to militarize Starfleet by starting a war with the Klingons.

It's an all-around pretty stupid plot. If Starfleet had ships like that they would basically be invincible. The combined resources of the Klingons and Romulans would be mere annoyances at best against just a handful of those ships. It was also designed to be run by a single person, if need be, which would drastically reduce the crew compliment required to run such a ship.
--- merged: May 17, 2013 at 10:43 AM ---
It's patently obvious they had NO science adviser on the project. When I implied that they threw actual science out the airlock, it wasn't a metaphor. Here's an example:

At one point, the Enterprise and Khan's ship were fighting above the moon. Suddenly, the Enterprise's warp core shuts down, which powers down the entire ship (huh??) but that's not what bugged the shit out of me.

As soon as the ship powers down while orbiting the moon, they yell that the ship is caught in Earth's gravity and we see the ship dropping towards the Earth. :facepalm:

Then there's the part at the very beginning, which is featured in the trailer, where we see Spock standing inside an active volcano.

Spock is lowered into the volcano by cable from a shuttle that isn't able to stand the heat. We see the heat causing the shuttle some nasty damage yet Spock is perfectly fine far below. The cable snaps but Spock fortunately drops onto dry rock surrounded by splashing lava. Apparently, the shuttle isn't able to beam him up even though they're only a few hundred feet away from him. So, they race back to the Enterprise and the Enterprise ends up beaming him out as it flies directly over the volcano.

Spock's mission was to set and activate a device that would render the volcano inert and save the population of the planet that lived directly around the volcano. Why didn't they just set the device and beam it into the volcano?!? One of those "WTF" moments that makes absolutely no sense at all whatsoever.

That is lazy writing. Lazy writing is what Michael Bay does which he tries to obfuscate with explosions and out-of-place effects.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Sigh, then I'll save my 16 bucks then. No point in wasting money after this. Guess it will be a dvd rental then at best.

Go see it. Its not Trek, but it is a nice dollop of more of whatever Abrams gave us in 2009 and in that sense it was very entertaining. You wont feel ripped off in terms of money, but you wont think of it as Trek. LOTS of eyeroll if you are logical or scientific.
--- merged: May 17, 2013 at 1:37 PM ---
so what's up with that other bigger ship in the trailer? excelsior class or some JJ machination?

Its NOT the Excelsior and its not from another timeline, Ill tell you that. Its a "Dreadnaught Class" vessel. Guess what...Kahn's genetically engineered mind and body not only gives him super strength and intellect, but it must also have imparted technical knowledge and science exceeding that of Starfleet even though it is 300 years out of date. :facepalm:
--- merged: May 17, 2013 at 1:40 PM ---
It's an unsanctioned Starfleet vessel built with Khan's help by way of his advanced intelligence under the supervision of Admiral Marcus, who wants to militarize Starfleet by starting a war with the Klingons.

It's an all-around pretty stupid plot. If Starfleet had ships like that they would basically be invincible. The combined resources of the Klingons and Romulans would be mere annoyances at best against just a handful of those ships. It was also designed to be run by a single person, if need be, which would drastically reduce the crew compliment required to run such a ship.
--- merged: May 17, 2013 at 10:43 AM ---
It's patently obvious they had NO science adviser on the project. When I implied that they threw actual science out the airlock, it wasn't a metaphor. Here's an example:

At one point, the Enterprise and Khan's ship were fighting above the moon. Suddenly, the Enterprise's warp core shuts down, which powers down the entire ship (huh??) but that's not what bugged the shit out of me.

As soon as the ship powers down while orbiting the moon, they yell that the ship is caught in Earth's gravity and we see the ship dropping towards the Earth. :facepalm:

Then there's the part at the very beginning, which is featured in the trailer, where we see Spock standing inside an active volcano.

Spock is lowered into the volcano by cable from a shuttle that isn't able to stand the heat. We see the heat causing the shuttle some nasty damage yet Spock is perfectly fine far below. The cable snaps but Spock fortunately drops onto dry rock surrounded by splashing lava. Apparently, the shuttle isn't able to beam him up even though they're only a few hundred feet away from him. So, they race back to the Enterprise and the Enterprise ends up beaming him out as it flies directly over the volcano.

Spock's mission was to set and activate a device that would render the volcano inert and save the population of the planet that lived directly around the volcano. Why didn't they just set the device and beam it into the volcano?!? One of those "WTF" moments that makes absolutely no sense at all whatsoever.

That is lazy writing. Lazy writing is what Michael Bay does which he tries to obfuscate with explosions and out-of-place effects.

Even funnier is that in the last movie, we saw that Enterprise has SEVERAL warp cores...so this was pure bullshit.

:facepalm:
--- merged: May 17, 2013 at 1:45 PM ---
With all the wonderous variety of beef Jerky availiable in the US you pick JACK LINK'S!!!!

That's gonna make me hurl faster than the notion of Kirk being stripped of his manhood by a rabid ape :D

When you are making a quick stop at 7-11, you dont find a large variety of jerky! Aklso, I love the JackLinks peppered steak and teriyaki steak. :)
 
B

Backstep

Guest
OMFG....I just saw this movie. I am posting this less than 15 minutes after seeing the ending credits. JJ Abrams is on my very short shit list...permanently. He is completely CLUELESS about what Trek is supposed to be. He does not understand science, He does not give a flying lemur fart what happens to Trek canon. He simply lacks the intellectual warp power to understand things on the level of the average Trek fan.

Having said that, this is a very entertaining movie. Compare it with Avengers, Transformers, Star Wars I, II, III. It is popcorn and candy entertainment tailor made for theaters. I cant discuss it in detail because not a lot of others have seen it here yet. But I will reveal one thing: The original rumors about Cumberbach playing Kahn were absolutely true. But its not really our Kahn. This guy is English and pale, and Kahn Noonian Singh was supposed to be a Hindu in TOS which is why his name was Hindu. He allegedly led a conquest of South Asia and parts of the Middle East. How did Kahn become a very Anglo Briton? Why is Carol Marcus a Brit and her father is not? Why....who....where....cant reveal too much right now.

I enjoyed the movie for it's entertainment value, but it was definitely not Star Trek. It has Trek's name, but it is entirely new. I will write a review after I recover. :) Also, I actually did like the new Klingon warbirds, but hate the new Klingons. And the Enterprise GT still lives...it was not destroyed. :( At least it lands like Roddenberry said it could, but his vision was only the saucer section which could land. Those "V" shaped sections on the underside of the original Star Trek (TOS) Enterprise were retracted landing struts. The third strut was concealed under the pylon connecting the saucer to the primary hull.

View attachment 28245

This movie was a solid follow up to the 2009 movie, but IMO neither one of them capture the spirit or mission of Star Trek and are made for a dumber audience who cares nothing about science. Abrams himself said he did not get Trek. He still doesn't. He probably never will. He has SQUANDERED his opportunity.
--- merged: May 17, 2013 at 2:12 AM ---


The characters in this thing are solid. I actually like Pine's Kirk much much better than William Shatner's Kirk. I like this new Uhura way way better than the original as well. Same for all of the others and I am even warming up to Chekhov. But Scotty is being dragged down by that crusty little parasitic alien that he keeps having to tell to get down from stuff. I cant tell if it is his pet or his boyfriend. :facepalm: Spock is goong to have the benefit of well...Spock (prime) to guide his emotional development. And as of now, we begin the five year mission (five movies), and Abrams is going to make a ton of money on these movies and the original Trek fans are going to have to suck it up or curl up with TOS, the TNG generation of Trek and the movies pre-Abrams. That Trek is forever gone.


With JJ going to SW full time now, maybe we can have a reboot of the reboot to Roddenberry's trek :thoranime12:
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
With JJ going to SW full time now, maybe we can have a reboot of the reboot to Roddenberry's trek :thoranime12:

What needs to happen is that the science-based exploration/adventure/action flagship needs to be reincarnated with a new name and new characters and a new ship. But none of the writing hacks today can handle it. It needs input from scientists, from the physics and astronomy communities, from quantum theorists and biologists and mathematicians. Call it Expansion Quest, or Stellar Journey or something like that, and leave Trek to Abrams and his squeeing theater drones.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Let me put it this way. Kirk's new catch phrase is "Punch it" when he orders the ship into warp. Scotty's new catch phrase is "Get down from there!".

Unfortunately, that means that the crusty-faced creature hanging out with Scotty has to be up on something first. :( Cant they transfer it off the ship or perhaps lose it in an unfortunate plasma explosion?
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
OMFG....I just saw this movie. I am posting this less than 15 minutes after seeing the ending credits. JJ Abrams is on my very short shit list...permanently. He is completely CLUELESS about what Trek is supposed to be. He does not understand science, He does not give a flying lemur fart what happens to Trek canon. He simply lacks the intellectual warp power to understand things on the level of the average Trek fan.

Having said that, this is a very entertaining movie. Compare it with Avengers, Transformers, Star Wars I, II, III. It is popcorn and candy entertainment tailor made for theaters. I cant discuss it in detail because not a lot of others have seen it here yet. But I will reveal one thing: The original rumors about Cumberbach playing Kahn were absolutely true. But its not really our Kahn. This guy is English and pale, and Kahn Noonian Singh was supposed to be a Hindu in TOS which is why his name was Hindu. He allegedly led a conquest of South Asia and parts of the Middle East. How did Kahn become a very Anglo Briton? Why is Carol Marcus a Brit and her father is not? Why....who....where....cant reveal too much right now.

I enjoyed the movie for it's entertainment value, but it was definitely not Star Trek. It has Trek's name, but it is entirely new. I will write a review after I recover. :) Also, I actually did like the new Klingon warbirds, but hate the new Klingons. And the Enterprise GT still lives...it was not destroyed. :( At least it lands like Roddenberry said it could, but his vision was only the saucer section which could land. Those "V" shaped sections on the underside of the original Star Trek (TOS) Enterprise were retracted landing struts. The third strut was concealed under the pylon connecting the saucer to the primary hull.

View attachment 28245

This movie was a solid follow up to the 2009 movie, but IMO neither one of them capture the spirit or mission of Star Trek and are made for a dumber audience who cares nothing about science. Abrams himself said he did not get Trek. He still doesn't. He probably never will. He has SQUANDERED his opportunity.
--- merged: May 17, 2013 at 2:12 AM ---


The characters in this thing are solid. I actually like Pine's Kirk much much better than William Shatner's Kirk. I like this new Uhura way way better than the original as well. Same for all of the others and I am even warming up to Chekhov. But Scotty is being dragged down by that crusty little parasitic alien that he keeps having to tell to get down from stuff. I cant tell if it is his pet or his boyfriend. :facepalm: Spock is goong to have the benefit of well...Spock (prime) to guide his emotional development. And as of now, we begin the five year mission (five movies), and Abrams is going to make a ton of money on these movies and the original Trek fans are going to have to suck it up or curl up with TOS, the TNG generation of Trek and the movies pre-Abrams. That Trek is forever gone.


Having seen all of these actors in either the 09 Trek or in other flicks,I think they are all fine actors--probably are better all around actors then the original Trekkers--however,I don't think any of them are better then Shatner-just IMO.

The " trek in name only" is what I was guessing at. And, after seeing that Atlantic Wire article on Abrams' interest-in his own words--that he is not a Trek fan and he ONLY wanted in to get the licensing rights to merchandise and comics, etc--it seems you and Bluce's views on the film confirm that article's info.

He and others are business men-"artists", got it, but it seems more and more everything done artistically is becoming just more consumable product and less entertainment-especially thoughtful stuff like TOS or TNG or even Voyager for that matter! :D

If there are new Trek movies and if Paramount is fully committed to this new universe thing, is there anyway to make them into something better and more "trekkie"?
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
Get down from there!
--- merged: May 17, 2013 at 8:25 PM ---
Having seen all of these actors in either the 09 Trek or in other flicks,I think they are all fine actors--probably are better all around actors then the original Trekkers--however,I don't think any of them are better then Shatner-just IMO.

The actors are fantastic, no complaints, and the manner in which they portray the characters is nothing short of perfect.

The " trek in name only" is what I was guessing at. And, after seeing that Atlantic Wire article on Abrams' interest-in his own words--that he is not a Trek fan and he ONLY wanted in to get the licensing rights to merchandise and comics, etc--it seems you and Bluce's views on the film confirm that article's info.

He and others are business men-"artists", got it, but it seems more and more everything done artistically is becoming just more consumable product and less entertainment-especially thoughtful stuff like TOS or TNG or even Voyager for that matter! :D

If there are new Trek movies and if Paramount is fully committed to this new universe thing, is there anyway to make them into something better and more "trekkie"?

Absolutely. Get rid of Abrams or force the guy to respect the established universe and hire at least one goddamned respectable scientific adviser.

At this point, Abrams is no longer his own brand. He and Michael Bay are interchangeable and either one would have produced the exact same bullshit.
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
Get down from there!
--- merged: May 17, 2013 at 8:25 PM ---


The actors are fantastic, no complaints, and the manner in which they portray the characters is nothing short of perfect.



Absolutely. Get rid of Abrams or force the guy to respect the established universe and hire at least one goddamned respectable scientific adviser.

At this point, Abrams is no longer his own brand. He and Michael Bay are interchangeable and either one would have produced the exact same bullshit.

YOU ARE JUST AN EBIL H8TR!!!!

 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Get down from there!
--- merged: May 17, 2013 at 8:25 PM ---


The actors are fantastic, no complaints, and the manner in which they portray the characters is nothing short of perfect.



Absolutely. Get rid of Abrams or force the guy to respect the established universe and hire at least one goddamned respectable scientific adviser.

At this point, Abrams is no longer his own brand. He and Michael Bay are interchangeable and either one would have produced the exact same bullshit.

I am pretty sure Abrams is done with Trek-the article from Atlantic Wire intimated as much. He can't do what he wants with it but has been given license to do what he wants with SWars with his multi media desires and cash making schemes.
 
B

Backstep

Guest
I am pretty sure Abrams is done with Trek-the article from Atlantic Wire intimated as much. He can't do what he wants with it but has been given license to do what he wants with SWars with his multi media desires and cash making schemes.


I read the same, JJ got in a huff at CBS over their refusal to stop making TOS action figures and rights to TV shows.
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
Others have taken notice, so, it's not just us.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...s_review_j_j_abrams_gets_star_trek_wrong.html

The joy of Star Trek has, for me, always been the show’s scientific—and, more often, pseudo-scientific—patina. And this, unfortunately, is precisely the element that J.J. Abrams’ new Trek films are lacking.

Sadly, Into Darkness doesn’t even try to have that effect. Its preference for violence and political intrigue makes Abrams’ vision more Star Wars than Star Trek—which renders his closing use of the classic, soul-stirring promise “to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before” ironically bittersweet. Something tells me that Abrams’ crew will be approaching those new worlds and new life forms with phasers in hand far more often than tricorders.
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
Found this in the comments section of a blog:

I loved JJ's first Star Trek film (with plenty of criticisms) but this second one 'INTO DARKNESS" is just horrid.

When you have a franchise, certain parts of that franchise are critical to the 'going concern'. When you ignore or screw up major elements of the franchise, the story doesn't work. Think of Bond if he wasn't attractive to women, or couldn't fight/shoot...it just wouldn't be Bond.

TOP CRITICISM wrt Star Trek franchise.

  • Khan seemed more like a pouting, effeminate rock star than a super villain. In the original show, and the movie featuring Kahn, the actor was actually physically and psychologically intimidating. This rehash, not so much.
  • The key element that made the 2 previous Khan episodes work was the clash of civilizations represented by the brilliant but myopic Khan, vs the "knows how to win Kirk". In both previous episodes, Kirk out-strategized Khan, who theoretically was both physically and mentally superior to Kirk.
  • Science is left in the lobby! This is a sci-fi movie with a long history of technical excellence in scientific detail. When show favorites like Warp and Gravity are ignored, or worse, made to act counter to reality, it ruins the movie.
TOP CRITICISM wrt movie plot.

  • Khan wants to kill the Admiral. AND Khan has a super-transporter. Why couldn't he just transport into the Admirals office and kill him? Why couldn't he transport a bomb in and kill him. Ditto that ring in the water thing: couldn't he have done that within about a 3 mile location of the Admiral?
It was a very expensive average movie. If it was a stand-alone movie, it wouldn't even be a blockbuster. ONLY because it is part of the franchise will it get the attention it doesn't deserve.

Why are evil villains always British? :icon_lol:
 

Bluce Ree

Tech Admin / Council Member
Turn a sci-fi legend into a Michael Bay flick and you start to lose your lackluster. If they keep going in the direction Abrams wants to go, turning ST into SW, the numbers will just keep shrinking with every sequel until it goes back into hiatus and Paramount wrongly assumes, once again, that the "concept is tired" rather than blame shitty film making.

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/star-trek-darkness-cant-hit-warp-speed-box-155020954.html
 

Rac80

The Belle of the Ball
well, not going to bother with this one- will wait until my library gets it so I can rent it for free. After the 2009 Trek I had hopes, but as soon as it was confirmed the character was "Khan" they were dashed. sorry no one other than Montalban (RIP :( ) could be Khan!

Geeze ape get a mop if all you're going to do is drool over Chris Pine! you and my daughter seem to think he's hot! ;)
 

shavedape

Well Known GateFan
well, not going to bother with this one- will wait until my library gets it so I can rent it for free. After the 2009 Trek I had hopes, but as soon as it was confirmed the character was "Khan" they were dashed. sorry no one other than Montalban (RIP :( ) could be Khan!

Geeze ape get a mop if all you're going to do is drool over Chris Pine! you and my daughter seem to think he's hot! ;)

Your daughter has good taste. ;)


*although I would caution that Chris Pine is something of a "player". He's not the marrying type. He's just to be used for pleasure and then kicked to the curb (or "kurb" as our Brit members say, like the bad guy in this movie who is Khan without being Khan ;) )
--- merged: May 19, 2013 at 1:04 PM ---
Turn a sci-fi legend into a Michael Bay flick and you start to lose your lackluster. If they keep going in the direction Abrams wants to go, turning ST into SW, the numbers will just keep shrinking with every sequel until it goes back into hiatus and Paramount wrongly assumes, once again, that the "concept is tired" rather than blame shitty film making.

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/star-trek-darkness-cant-hit-warp-speed-box-155020954.html

This caught my eye:

The stakes are high: The production budget on "Into Darkness" was $190 million and there's been a major marketing push behind the film.

There's something very cynical about them spending this much money to produce a movie that, as many have said, isn't very "Star Trekky".
 

ParagonPie

Well Known GateFan
Ok so here is my take on things since a few people have watched this, spoilers a head!

The beginning of the movie was pretty well, down right hilarious. A parent wants to save their child, ok fair enough but killing 48 people in order to do so? You'd have to be pretty darn demented, off the rocker to do that level of action let alone thinking. The other one just slightly before was the introduction of Khan himself, the music was so incredibly loud and pretty much saying THIS GUY IS THE VILLAIN, HE IS THE VILLAIN, SERIOUSLY...VILLAIN. MUSIC BAD SUGGESTS VILLAIN IN AREA WITHIN FIELD OF VIEW.

Also Kirk loses control over the Enterprise. For about 5 minutes, seriously guys almost had some real tension there! What was the point in that? Oh that lasted long, good thing Khan forgot about the super transporter so instead of transporting a nuclear bomb with a 5 second count down instead he uses a gun ship. Makes sense. Also good thing Pike put Kirk down as first officer in the just in case event of his death. Oh wait.

The Admiral saying war is inevitable with the Klingons, if the head of Starfleet says that then well why hasn't he approached say the head of the Federation with any kind of evidence to increase funding/resources into the building of ships for defensive purposes? He doesn't go through this yet still has the resources anyway to construct a Dreadnought Class Vessel near Jupiter? Without anyone noticing this? If he wanted a more militarized Starfleet, then why aren't we seeing a more militarized approach? This could be anything from formations of new infantry battalions preparation for ground warfare, to ship tactics and formations countering the recent Klingon attacks.

Khan's blood being synthesised by McCoy, I guess section 31 forget about the advances in medical treatment then. Since you know, having soldiers who can take multiple disruptor blasts, enhanced strength, vision etc and of course REVIVING THE DEAD wouldn't be important in a coming war right?

Anyway here is a missed beat (involves tribbles, so not really spoilerish)

The tribble that was revived by Khan's blood, I was really, Oh god was I really hoping for the sudden tribble population explosion would be caused by the Federation. This may sound incredibly silly, but thinking about it all a tribble does is eat and breed, so launch some genetically engineered/enhanced tribbles onto planets and they'll eat food supplies disrupting the planets infrastructure. GENIUS Alas no one has recognized this yet. I'm very surprised they didn't go with that.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Turn a sci-fi legend into a Michael Bay flick and you start to lose your lackluster. If they keep going in the direction Abrams wants to go, turning ST into SW, the numbers will just keep shrinking with every sequel until it goes back into hiatus and Paramount wrongly assumes, once again, that the "concept is tired" rather than blame shitty film making.

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/star-trek-darkness-cant-hit-warp-speed-box-155020954.html

I was hoping we would see something like this, so I would not feel that I was just lamenting the Star trek I know and love. This new Trek is shedding it's original fanbase because it is no longer science fiction, but more science fantasy like Star Wars. I think he will be PERFECT for Star Wars. Either him or Michael Bay could do something spectacular with Star wars. But neither one of them has the intellectual brainpower to do Trek right. Not without help. There would be far more discussion about why there can be no such thing as Red Matter, and why you cant introduce things like transwarp beaming without ruining the tech timeline in Star Trek. There would be less discussion about where to put lens flares, how to create tension in scenes using devices that ruin the overall impact. Like the scene where Kirk's helmet starts cracking whilst he is hurtling towards the other ship. :facepalm:.

If Abrams stays at the helm, Trek will die much quicker in this incarnation that it has the past two times.
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
I was hoping we would see something like this, so I would not feel that I was just lamenting the Star trek I know and love. This new Trek is shedding it's original fanbase because it is no longer science fiction, but more science fantasy like Star Wars. I think he will be PERFECT for Star Wars. Either him or Michael Bay could do something spectacular with Star wars. But neither one of them has the intellectual brainpower to do Trek right. Not without help. There would be far more discussion about why there can be no such thing as Red Matter, and why you cant introduce things like transwarp beaming without ruining the tech timeline in Star Trek. There would be less discussion about where to put lens flares, how to create tension in scenes using devices that ruin the overall impact. Like the scene where Kirk's helmet starts cracking whilst he is hurtling towards the other ship. :facepalm:.

If Abrams stays at the helm, Trek will die much quicker in this incarnation that it has the past two times.
Nope, I wouldn't want either near SW either. What SW lacks in science it should make up in epic storytelling, and those dudes are just Eye Candy nuts with no clue how to write an EPIC. Hell man, they have enough problems making a single movie storyline make sense, let alone a frackking trilogy.
 
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