If you are SO DAMNED MAD, turn off your TV....

[YJ02]

This linked TwitteX thread is a great example of the shear hate surrounding entertainment today

https://x.com/search?q=#RIPDoctorWho&src=trend_click&vertical=trends

AND THIS IS NOT directed at anyone here

and, lets get it out of the way- I don't watch Dr Who; I think (so far) SW's THE ACOLYTE is 'ok' fan fiction, at best. I AM DEFENDING NOTHING being presented as "entertainment" by these companies that these ragers are talking about.

But these people who seem to THRIVE on hate; like they can't wait for the next trailer for a new series/ movie or an ad for the next episode of a show JUST so they can nitpick and RAGE!

They must be very sad, lonely, maybe even clinically depressed people and going on SOCMED ragers like this is how they get their serotonin boost ( I KNOW the man known as NERDROTIC is this, he has all but said so in many of his "about me" videos/ interviews with other YTrs)

JUST TURN OFF your TV! CUT YOUR CORD! Dump your damned DISH!

Stream everything!! SEEK OUT what you want to watch instead of waiting to be FED something by the Corporations.. YT is literally STUFFED FULL of classic sci fi, horror, fantasy shows and movies for FREE! and so much great fan made stuff as well...

all the low budget, less well known/hyped studio made shows that are out there- I have tried to tell you all about some of them here- shows like SILO, BEACON 23,1899, DARK, OUTER RANGE, FEAR, EVIL, even the new Walking Dead spin offs, and many more I forget now- are all FAR BETTER than what these people are raging about

so why, I cannot understand, do they spend so much of their time and effort, and take so much from their SOUL to devote so much hate to something they cannot stand, when they COULD BE watching something they may actually LIKE!

They MUST BE real joys to live with-- wonder how their family lives are?

@Gatefan1976

 

[Gatefan1976]

I've been separated for 2 years brother................
I still see them every odd weekend, and the funny thing is we get along much better now. Still 28 years is a long time. I DO watch Dr Who and the new guy is no David Tennant, Matt Smith or Peter Capaldi (my favorite of the NuWho Doctors)
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z40TROnhu6A


The new one is not bad, but because he's gay (or bi) people have gone off on a tear about him. The writing is CERTAINLY much better than the Jody Whittaker era, but that's because Russel T Davis is back at the helm. Additionally, you think flame hell could get bad sometimes, the main Dr fansite has a section called the Crater of needles which would put us to shame!! (in from the original SGUS days!! They are EXTREME.

 

[YJ02]

I've been separated for 2 years brother................
I still see them every odd weekend, and the funny thing is we get along much better now. Still 28 years is a long time. I DO watch Dr Who and the new guy is no David Tennant, Matt Smith or Peter Capaldi (my favorite of the NuWho Doctors)
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z40TROnhu6A


The new one is not bad, but because he's gay (or bi) people have gone off on a tear about him. The writing is CERTAINLY much better than the Jody Whittaker era, but that's because Russel T Davis is back at the helm. Additionally, you think flame hell could get bad sometimes, the main Dr fansite has a section called the Crater of needles which would put us to shame!! (in from the original SGUS days!! They are EXTREME.

i know there have always been people. myself included, to criticize weak shows/movies or weak parts of them

but these people, this online presence on "flash" social media, like twitter and instagram ,etc, the so called fandom menace and others, they have made it their PASSION- even their livelihood.. cashing in (literally) on their hate

 

[Shadow Mann]

Doctor Who sucks now. IN MY OPINION. The FANS of Doctor Who who have been watching it (and others like Star Trek and Star Wars) and built them into the "franchises" they are today have been betrayed with the woke DEI political messaging and social agendas that have no place in Doctor Who or any TV series aired for entertainment (vs propaganda). The YT creators and groups online that call out the betrayals of canon and tone, the political agendas and woke messaging are more popular than the shows themselves because they reflect the MAJORITY of the fanbases of their respective IPs. The people who seem to be okay with all the massive and obtuse changes in Doctor Who, Star Wars and Star Trek are literally a "tiny but loud minority of toxic anti-fans and journalists". The numbers do not lie. Use numbers from the views on the "hater" videos vs those of the shows themselves.

Note that the publications (and YT influencers) that support the brands and franchises without question, and speak highly of garbage, are not getting views or likes and many publications have shut down because of it. Stock prices are down. There is just no denying it. Facts over feelings.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4LoyWSSixM

 

[Shadow Mann]

i know there have always been people. myself included, to criticize weak shows/movies or weak parts of them

but these people, this online presence on "flash" social media, like twitter and instagram ,etc, the so called fandom menace and others, they have made it their PASSION- even their livelihood.. cashing in (literally) on their hate

"cashing in (literally) on their hate"

Riddle me this: HOW are they cashing in unless there are thousands (millions?) of people supporting their views and perspectives vs the small audience that seems okay with all the new stuff and canon destruction starting with "The Timeless Children" and the destruction of Gallifrey?

The hate seems to me to be coming mostly from the tiny group of journalists and anti-fans who go on social media and attack anyone who says they don't like Doctor Who's new direction, or complain about the writing or stories. They could just mute or block, but generally they are people with very few followers and almost no reach. The journalists and YT influencers who gush over it because they got a gift box from Disney are losing subscriptions and people are not watching their videos because they seem silly given the reality of the show. Lowest ratings in 60 years. There is a REASON for that. Getting mad because somebody does not agree with what's going on is not the same as rejecting something because you have reasons to do so, and can explain the reasons.

 

[Gatefan1976]

When has ST EVER not been "woke" for it's production time frame?

 

[Shadow Mann]

When has ST EVER not been "woke" for it's production time frame?

Since before 2005. I suppose you have to understand what definition of "woke" one is referring to. The allegory and tone of Star Trek was never overtly political or agenda-driven. The episodic nature of all of those shows allowed for many different perspectives, and any political, religious, or identity struggles were dealt with using allegory. Not imbued in the characters themselves. And the allegories were sometimes VERY specific, without being "woke". We need a post here about wokeness! What does it mean to you? Can you sort of tell me how NuTrek and Star Trek are both "woke" in the same way?

 

[Joelist]

Since before 2005. I suppose you have to understand what definition of "woke" one is referring to. The allegory and tone of Star Trek was never overtly political or agenda-driven. The episodic nature of all of those shows allowed for many different perspectives, and any political, religious, or identity struggles were dealt with using allegory. Not imbued in the characters themselves. And the allegories were sometimes VERY specific, without being "woke". We need a post here about wokeness! What does it mean to you? Can you sort of tell me how NuTrek and Star Trek are both "woke" in the same way?

You beat me to it. Star Trek used allegory and such to make general points. It wasn't as overly on the nose as Kurtzman Trek has been, did not engage in excessive presentism like Kurtzman Trek and did not have girlbosses or Mary Sues who were elevated by putting the men down.

 

[Shadow Mann]

You beat me to it. Star Trek used allegory and such to make general points. It wasn't as overly on the nose as Kurtzman Trek has been, did not engage in excessive presentism like Kurtzman Trek and did not have girlbosses or Mary Sues who were elevated by putting the men down.

We had Spock and Kirk as literal Nazis in one episode of TOS, yet it wasn't "woke", AND a female character was a lead in the episode.We dealt with race, religion, slavery, narcissism, all sorts of things without the show itself being "woke". Episodic Star Trek means we can have drama one week, action the next, horror the next...everything except a musical!

 

[Joelist]

The weirdest part is there are flashes here and there that the current runners ARE capable of making decent product. Picard Season 3 was quite watchable (even if it is literally too dark a lot of the time) because it told a logical story and had characters you actually started to like. In a similar vein Strange New Worlds has had decent episodes and it does have a cast with actual charisma - of course it has also had mind blowingly STUPID episodes and does now and again hit the woke pedal kinda hard. Examples where they actually make something watchable were Episodes 1 through 5 and 7 of Season One and Episodes 1 through 4 of Season Two. Alas the rest of Season Two is pretty bad.

Anyway the point is they are CAPABLE of making decent material but choose not to. And a MAJOR reason is having activists in the writers rooms and an over focus on presentism and representation. For a show that did representation correctly I give you The Expanse.

 

[Shadow Mann]

The weirdest part is there are flashes here and there that the current runners ARE capable of making decent product. Picard Season 3 was quite watchable (even if it is literally too dark a lot of the time) because it told a logical story and had characters you actually started to like. In a similar vein Strange New Worlds has had decent episodes and it does have a cast with actual charisma - of course it has also had mind blowingly STUPID episodes and does now and again hit the woke pedal kinda hard. Examples where they actually make something watchable were Episodes 1 through 5 and 7 of Season One and Episodes 1 through 4 of Season Two. Alas the rest of Season Two is pretty bad.

Anyway the point is they are CAPABLE of making decent material but choose not to. And a MAJOR reason is having activists in the writers rooms and an over focus on presentism and representation. For a show that did representation correctly I give you The Expanse.

Very well said. I think that there ARE capable people on the writing team, but they are stifled by the agendas assigned to them to include in the show and we have a large writers room vs a small team (just look at the credits!). Also, many complete amateurs were hired for some reason. For some of them. NuTrek is their first job. For me, the biggest gripe and most disappointment comes from the changing of the canon and the Trek universe itself. The changes they made are undoable only with an episode erasing them somehow. It's in better shape for repair than Star Wars IMO. We have precedent for time travel and parallel universes in Trek, where we do not in Star Wars (yet).

 

[Joelist]

Very well said. I think that there ARE capable people on the writing team, but they are stifled by the agendas assigned to them to include in the show and we have a large writers room vs a small team (just look at the credits!). Also, many complete amateurs were hired for some reason. For some of them. NuTrek is their first job. For me, the biggest gripe and most disappointment comes from the changing of the canon and the Trek universe itself. The changes they made are undoable only with an episode erasing them somehow. It's in better shape for repair than Star Wars IMO. We have precedent for time travel and parallel universes in Trek, where we do not in Star Wars (yet).

True they have basically annihilated the canon. It does help that the SNW episode "Tomorrow, Tomorrow and Tomorrow" all but screams that Kurtzman Trek is all in an alternate timeline caused by Romulans traveling into the past and making ham fisted interventions. So a future more competent leadership team can just point to that story and pick up from the end of Star Trek Voyager and tell it differently.

 

[Shadow Mann]

True they have basically annihilated the canon. It does help that the SNW episode "Tomorrow, Tomorrow and Tomorrow" all but screams that Kurtzman Trek is all in an alternate timeline caused by Romulans traveling into the past and making ham fisted interventions. So a future more competent leadership team can just point to that story and pick up from the end of Star Trek Voyager and tell it differently.

If they can bring Spock back to life, they can find a creative way to erase everything made since 2005. Holodecks, delirium, time travel, anomalies, parallel universes, etc. It will take a real fan to figure it out, but it can be done. It can even by done by outright ignoring it.

 

[Joelist]

That's why I noted that episode - the mechanism is already there and they all but shouted "All of Kurtzman Trek is in an alternate timeline!". Just reference that episode and start your better Trek from the end of Voyager Endgame and Bob's Your Uncle.

 

[YJ02]

Doctor Who sucks now. IN MY OPINION. The FANS of Doctor Who who have been watching it (and others like Star Trek and Star Wars) and built them into the "franchises" they are today have been betrayed with the woke DEI political messaging and social agendas that have no place in Doctor Who or any TV series aired for entertainment (vs propaganda). The YT creators and groups online that call out the betrayals of canon and tone, the political agendas and woke messaging are more popular than the shows themselves because they reflect the MAJORITY of the fanbases of their respective IPs. The people who seem to be okay with all the massive and obtuse changes in Doctor Who, Star Wars and Star Trek are literally a "tiny but loud minority of toxic anti-fans and journalists". The numbers do not lie. Use numbers from the views on the "hater" videos vs those of the shows themselves.

View attachment 35855

Note that the publications (and YT influencers) that support the brands and franchises without question, and speak highly of garbage, are not getting views or likes and many publications have shut down because of it. Stock prices are down. There is just no denying it. Facts over feelings.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4LoyWSSixM

you are missing the point

this is not about any one show or movie, i stated that, i don't watch WHO , i stated that. i don't think the acolyte is very good- i stated that

but this whole social media 'industry' of hate and rage, is ridiculous

we USED to talk about what we liked about shows.. somewhere along the way fans on all sites got dragged into rageporn over bad shows and are IGNORING all of the great new stuff as well as the old great stuff that is out there

tell me, just one example, have you ever even heard of BEACON 23 or have you been too caught up in formulating your latest rage tweet on DR who?

THIS is what I speaking of @Joelist @Gatefan1976

 

[Joelist]

I've heard of Beacon 23 but was unable to find it to watch it.

I'll also note I put up very positive threads on Fallout and Babylon 5 in the recent past. Probably others too.

 

[Joelist]

Regarding the social media aspects of "shilling" or indeed "rage posting" both are issues. I think this is why you see the massively successful creators like Critical Drinker avoid both - yes they slam bad work but also laud good work. In other words they are balanced. ShadowMann and I both remember when Doomcock finally called out The Fandom Menace and walked away from them over their inability to show the good as well as hit the bad. And that was about when I stopped following Nerdrotic over basically the same issue.

I agree we need to be balanced - which means both laud that which is good AND call out the trash too.

 

[Shadow Mann]

you are missing the point

this is not about any one show or movie, i stated that, i don't watch WHO , i stated that. i don't think the acolyte is very good- i stated that

but this whole social media 'industry' of hate and rage, is ridiculous

we USED to talk about what we liked about shows.. somewhere along the way fans on all sites got dragged into rageporn over bad shows and are IGNORING all of the great new stuff as well as the old great stuff that is out there

tell me, just one example, have you ever even heard of BEACON 23 or have you been too caught up in formulating your latest rage tweet on DR who?

THIS is what I speaking of @Joelist @Gatefan1976

I understand what you are saying, but you seem to be glossing over the fact that the quality and artistry of movies and TV shows has degraded to the point where the paying audiences (whether they be at home streaming or going to theaters) no longer find it worthwhile to pay. It really is that simple. The reasons for this is where all the craziness comes in. One group sees "haters and trolls" attacking what they feel are great shows or movies, while the other group sees what they loved and were used to getting be degraded to garbage. The different between blind hate and rejection is the rational thinking behind the rejection. The "haters" can generally explain EXACTLY what they do not like in the new movies and TV shows. It's never about race, sexuality or even the politics of the actors in the show. It's always writing, pacing, the qualities and ambitions of the characters in the shows and film, many things.

If there was no coordinated effort by the studios to protect their poor-quality productions by striking YouTubers, using bots and hiring trolls to chase them down and silence them, they would not be so damned popular. They are more popular than the studios or media outlets that attack them now. The audiences that love these shows and movies don't seem to be showing up for them. There is a disconnect somewhere in the thinking of those who think it's all about hate, don't you think?

 

[Joelist]

I will say that YJ does have a point about the social media phenomenon of rage/anger posting to get engagement. It's not exclusive to media critique either; you see it in news, sports, everywhere. Make a statement and be outraged - the more outraged the better. This is WHY those posting to call out issues need to learn to express reasons and to not engage in online primal scream therapy. The best approach to this is engage with those who provide reasons and rationale and don't engage the pure screamers.

 

[Shadow Mann]

I will say that YJ does have a point about the social media phenomenon of rage/anger posting to get engagement. It's not exclusive to media critique either; you see it in news, sports, everywhere. Make a statement and be outraged - the more outraged the better. This is WHY those posting to call out issues need to learn to express reasons and to not engage in online primal scream therapy. The best approach to this is engage with those who provide reasons and rationale and don't engage the pure screamers.

Screamers rarely can articulate the reasons they are screaming. All they want is for everyone else around them who is not in agreement with them to shut the hell up. That is the mentality behind all censorship.