Doctor Who S09 E07 - E08 The Zygon Invasion/Inversion

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
And so in a season that seems to consist of two parters we have another one. This one deals with a rogue splinter group from the Zygons who settled on Earth under the peace accord between Humans and Zygons negotiated in The Day of the Doctor and their plan to cause all out war between the species (which they planned to win).

I have to admit the idea of the season being a series of two parters is starting to grow on me. At first I was unsure of how it would work since it means there are no standalone episodes. But it has upsides too. One is that with twice the air time to unfold the story the pace is more methodical and there is more exposition. Another is that there is time therefore to make the stories more complex. And we saw that here as well where what started as a more conventional "alien monster" action/horror piece turned into a more complex game of bluff within bluff within bluff. Like this whole season it felt very Classic Who.

Acting is still strong, and in particular this episode let Jenna Coleman stretch her acting chops out as she was portraying hero and villain at the same time. I will miss her after this season. Peter Capaldi was in fine form again also.

So, five episodes to go. And in Episode 10 BBC has confirmed Ashildir (Maisie Williams) will be back.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
And so in a season that seems to consist of two parters we have another one. This one deals with a rogue splinter group from the Zygons who settled on Earth under the peace accord between Humans and Zygons negotiated in The Day of the Doctor and their plan to cause all out war between the species (which they planned to win).

I have to admit the idea of the season being a series of two parters is starting to grow on me. At first I was unsure of how it would work since it means there are no standalone episodes. But it has upsides too. One is that with twice the air time to unfold the story the pace is more methodical and there is more exposition. Another is that there is time therefore to make the stories more complex. And we saw that here as well where what started as a more conventional "alien monster" action/horror piece turned into a more complex game of bluff within bluff within bluff. Like this whole season it felt very Classic Who.

Acting is still strong, and in particular this episode let Jenna Coleman stretch her acting chops out as she was portraying hero and villain at the same time. I will miss her after this season. Peter Capaldi was in fine form again also.

So, five episodes to go. And in Episode 10 BBC has confirmed Ashildir (Maisie Williams) will be back.

I admit I have not watched Dr Who is quite some time. I used to watch it a lot many years ago.
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
British social commentary at it's best.

The Discussion in the black vault should certainly make people think.
 

ecgordon

Star's Hero
I've been disappointed in the stories for the past few seasons, but the Doctor's speech in the Black Vault just about made up for all of that. They should run that prior to the next GOP debate.
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
It's not as good in text, because you cannot feel how the Doctor is feeling, or how he is saying it, but:

The Doctor: You just want cruelty to beget cruelty. You're not superior to people who were cruel to you. You're just a whole bunch of new cruel people. A whole bunch of new cruel people, being cruel to some other people, who'll end up being cruel to you. The only way anyone can live in peace is if they're prepared to forgive. Why don't you break the cycle?

Bonnie: Why should we?
The Doctor: What is it that you actually want?
Bonnie: War.
The Doctor: Ah. And when this war is over, when -- when you have the homeland free from humans, what do you think it's going to be like? Do you know? Have you thought about it? Have you given it any consideration? Because you're very close to getting what you want. What's it going to be like? Paint me a picture. Are you going to live in houses? Do you want people to go to work? What'll be holidays? Oh! Will there be music? Do you think people will be allowed to play violins? Who will make the violins? Well? Oh, You don't actually know, do you? Because, just like every other tantruming child in history, Bonnie, you don't actually know what you want. So, let me ask you a question about this brave new world of yours. When you've killed all the bad guys, and it's all perfect and just and fair, when you have finally got it exactly the way you want it, what are you going to do with the people like you? The troublemakers. How are you going to protect your glorious revolution from the next one?
Bonnie: We'll win.
Doctor: Oh, will you? Well maybe -- maybe you will win. But nobody wins for long. The wheel just keepts turning. So, come on. Break the cycle.
Bonnie: Then why are you still talking?
The Doctor: Because I'm trying to get you to see. And I'm almost there.
Bonnie: Do you know what I see, Doctor? A box. A box with everything I need. A 50% chance.
Kate: For us, too.
[The Doctor sighs.]
The Doctor: And we're off! Fingers on buzzers! Are you feeling lucky? Are you ready to play the game? Who's going to be quickest? Who's going to be the luckiest?
Kate: This is not a game!
The Doctor: No, it's not a game, sweetheart, and I mean that most sincerely.
Bonnie: Why are you doing this?
Kate: Yes, I'd like to know that too. You set this up -- why?
The Doctor: Because it's not a game, Kate. This is a scale model of war. Every war ever fought right there in front of you. Because it's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken! How many lives shattered! How much blood will spill until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning -- sit down and talk! Listen to me, listen. I just -- I just want you to think. Do you know what thinking is? It's just a fancy word for changing your mind.
Bonnie: I will not change my mind.
The Doctor: Then you will die stupid. Alternatively, you could step away from that box. You could walk right out of that door, and you could stand your revolution down.
Bonnie: No, I'm not stopping this, Doctor. I started it. I will not stop it. You think they'll let me go after what I've done?
The Doctor: You're all the same, you screaming kids, you know that? "Look at me, I'm unforgivable." Well here's the unforeseeable, I forgive you. After all you've done. I forgive you.
Bonnie: You don't understand. You will never understand.
The Doctor: I don't understand? Are you kidding? Me? Of course I understand. I mean, do you call this a war, this funny little thing? This is not a war. I fought in a bigger war than you will ever know. I did worse things than you could ever imagine, and when I close my eyes... I hear more screams than anyone could ever be able to count! And do you know what you do with all that pain? Shall I tell you where you put it? You hold it tight... Til it burns your hand. And you say this -- no one else will ever have to live like this. No one else will ever have to feel this pain. Not on my watch.
[Kate closes her box.]
The Doctor: Thank you. Thank you.
Kate: I'm sorry.
The Doctor: I know. I know, thank you.
[The Doctor looks back to Bonnie.]
Well?
Bonnie: It's empty, isn't it? Both boxes -- there's nothing in them. Just buttons.
The Doctor: Of course. But you know how you know that? Because you've started to think like me. It's hell, isn't it? No one should have to think like that. And no one will. Not on our watch.
[The Doctor and Bonnie stare at one another for a moment.]
The Doctor: Gotcha.
Bonnie: How can you be so sure?
The Doctor: Because you have a disadvantage, Zygella. I know that face.
Kate: Well, this is all very well, but as know the boxes are empty now. We can't forget that.
The Doctor: No, well, uh... You've said that the last 15 times.
[The Doctor uses his sunglasses, which begin pulsing.]
Bonnie: You didn't wipe my memory.
The Doctor: No. Just Kate's. Oh, and your little friends here, of course. When they wake up, they won't remember what you've done. It'll be our secret.
Bonnie: You're going to protect me?
Osgood: Well, you're one of us now, whether you like it or not.
Bonnie: I don't understand how You could just forgive me.
The Doctor: Because I've been where you have. There was another box. I was gonna press another button. I was going to wipe out all of my own kind. Man, woman, and child. I was so sure I was right.
Bonnie: What happened?
The Doctor: Same thing that happened to you. I let Clara Oswald get inside my head.
[The Doctor looks at Clara.]
The Doctor: Trust me... She doesn't leave.
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
You need to add Capaldi's dramatic skills and ability to project stage presence for the dialog to really take life.
 

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
Plus it really was Capaldi who made the dialog work. I really don't think Tennant or Smith would have been able to deliver it the same way.
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
Plus it really was Capaldi who made the dialog work. I really don't think Tennant or Smith would have been able to deliver it the same way.
Personal Bias, but I think Tennant could if it was early in his run. He had some good speeches himself, but he got too "jokeyfied" in the role to deliver the gravitas convincingly -as the doctor-.
Smith -always- came across as a joke to me from his first ep.

You are right however in saying that it sounds far, far more believable coming from PC as he really -looked- and -sounded- like the 2000 plus year old time traveller, weary of seeing the same mistakes played endlessly before him, the one mistake he could never forgive himself for (almost??) doing.
 
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