DEFIANCE game and TV show - sink or swim?

[shavedape]

Give it 6 eps dude, 6 eps and you can begin to see a trend, before that you are jumping the gun.

I think with this particular one that it's disjointed enough to start to make predictions. It seems like the writers have a finger in every genre pie so to speak. They're trying to appeal to a wide audience with all the various areas they hit on -- scifi, westerns, romance, crime, video games, kids programming, etc. This, to me, is never a good combination as no viewer is truly satisfied in the long run.

So I'm predicting a steady drop in ratings. I don't think it will be as dramatic as it was for SGU, but it will drop and then level out probably. And when it levels out it won't be at a high enough number to justify continued production costs. The only reason that it will run for any appreciable length of time will be due to the video game tie-in and the attending contracts, like with the way SGU had a guaranteed 2 season run from the start. This could be the same type of deal and if the ratings tank like they did for SGU then the investors are going to be running from this thing like it's the Titanic.

 

[YJ02]

Give it 6 eps dude, 6 eps and you can begin to see a trend, before that you are jumping the gun.

with this statement I would normally agree-even more eps

however

it is a syfy creation which "salts" the experience and expectations quite a bit

(funny 10 yrs or so ago, we were probably all saying the opposite; "don't worry, its a syfy show-it will be good"

 

[Bluce Ree]

...religion ...

And that's my exit cue.

 

[Joelist]

I wound up doing research online to get the premise so the premiere would make at least a little sense to me:

This is from the Wiki on the show:

The series is set in the near future, where aliens known collectively as Votans have come to Earth seeking a new home after their star system was destroyed in a stellar collision. The Votans had thought Earth was uninhabited, but upon their arrival in 2013 discover that humans are living on the planet, who respond to them with hostility and suspicion.
A limited number of Votans are allowed to settle in a colony in Brazil, and eventually two other colonies, but millions of Votans remained in hypersleep aboard their ships in orbit as negotiations dragged on with Earth governments for full-scale settlement.
Tensions rose for ten years, but the Votan and human governments were on the verge of negotiating a peaceful settlement, when in 2023 the Votan ambassador to the United Nations was assassinated by a disgruntled human supremacist on live television outside of the United Nations Headquarters in New York City. This sparked a disastrous global conflict between humans and the aliens known as the "Pale Wars".
The wars tore apart the planet for seven years, until their culmination in 2030 in the apocalyptic "Arkfall" event, when the Ark fleet in orbit mysteriously exploded. The aliens think a rogue human commander was responsible, while humans suspect it was an alien weapons experiment gone awry. Millions of Votans died in hypersleep. During the Arkfall, destroyed Arks rained down on Earth and accidentally released terraformer technology.
While the Votans had intended to use their terraforming technology in a carefully planned manner, the Arkfall haphazardly unleashed chaotic and radical changes to the biosphere and even the geology of Earth, making the planet dangerous to both humans and the aliens. The earth was scorched, chasms opened in the ground, new mountain ranges were raised, and the surface of the planet was covered with dust and debris.
Animal and plant species from the Votan star system were introduced to Earth, and both native and alien animal species were horribly mutated by the uncontrolled terraformer technology, creating bizarre and dangerous hybrids and new species.
Within a few months, the Pale Wars wound down as both sides had fought to the point of mutual exhaustion, and a ceasefire was declared. Few organized governments remained for either the humans or the aliens, and both sides factionalized as their members began looking out for themselves. In several areas, local human and Votan militias began to band together when they realized that they had to cooperate if they hoped to survive on this new, almost alien planet.
The debris from the destroyed Ark fleet now forms an artificial "Ark belt" in Earth orbit, which periodically rains down in small scale "Arkfalls", which present a hazard for survivors on the surface, but also provide valuable opportunities to salvage advanced technology aboard the Arks.
--- merged: Apr 18, 2013 at 12:29 PM ---
The problem is not explaining this stuff even in condensed form in the premiere - they had 2 hours and this could have been shown in scenes and explained in about 10 minutes. Expecting the viewer to go do research to understand your show is not the way to go.

The wiki also has descriptions of each species as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defiance_(TV_series)

 

[shavedape]

Does it explain how the aliens can all speak flawless English???

 

[Gatefan1976]

Sounds a bit like Trigun...........

 

[Overmind One]

Does it explain how the aliens can all speak flawless English???

Wurd...also does it explain how the Votans not only speak perfect English, but seem perfectly familiar with human slang and value systems and at the end of the first episode, the girl with the diary says "My people have a God and...bla bla bla" . Call me a cynic, but I find it impossible to believe that religion (as we know it) will find its way into space. Math as a religion, yes. Physics as a religion or even the Universe as a religion. This show is a sci-fi Shirley Temple.
--- merged: Apr 18, 2013 at 3:13 PM ---

I wound up doing research online to get the premise so the premiere would make at least a little sense to me:

This is from the Wiki on the show:

The series is set in the near future, where aliens known collectively as Votans have come to Earth seeking a new home after their star system was destroyed in a stellar collision. The Votans had thought Earth was uninhabited, but upon their arrival in 2013 discover that humans are living on the planet, who respond to them with hostility and suspicion.
A limited number of Votans are allowed to settle in a colony in Brazil, and eventually two other colonies, but millions of Votans remained in hypersleep aboard their ships in orbit as negotiations dragged on with Earth governments for full-scale settlement.
Tensions rose for ten years, but the Votan and human governments were on the verge of negotiating a peaceful settlement, when in 2023 the Votan ambassador to the United Nations was assassinated by a disgruntled human supremacist on live television outside of the United Nations Headquarters in New York City. This sparked a disastrous global conflict between humans and the aliens known as the "Pale Wars".
The wars tore apart the planet for seven years, until their culmination in 2030 in the apocalyptic "Arkfall" event, when the Ark fleet in orbit mysteriously exploded. The aliens think a rogue human commander was responsible, while humans suspect it was an alien weapons experiment gone awry. Millions of Votans died in hypersleep. During the Arkfall, destroyed Arks rained down on Earth and accidentally released terraformer technology.
While the Votans had intended to use their terraforming technology in a carefully planned manner, the Arkfall haphazardly unleashed chaotic and radical changes to the biosphere and even the geology of Earth, making the planet dangerous to both humans and the aliens. The earth was scorched, chasms opened in the ground, new mountain ranges were raised, and the surface of the planet was covered with dust and debris.
Animal and plant species from the Votan star system were introduced to Earth, and both native and alien animal species were horribly mutated by the uncontrolled terraformer technology, creating bizarre and dangerous hybrids and new species.
Within a few months, the Pale Wars wound down as both sides had fought to the point of mutual exhaustion, and a ceasefire was declared. Few organized governments remained for either the humans or the aliens, and both sides factionalized as their members began looking out for themselves. In several areas, local human and Votan militias began to band together when they realized that they had to cooperate if they hoped to survive on this new, almost alien planet.
The debris from the destroyed Ark fleet now forms an artificial "Ark belt" in Earth orbit, which periodically rains down in small scale "Arkfalls", which present a hazard for survivors on the surface, but also provide valuable opportunities to salvage advanced technology aboard the Arks.
--- merged: Apr 18, 2013 at 12:29 PM ---
The problem is not explaining this stuff even in condensed form in the premiere - they had 2 hours and this could have been shown in scenes and explained in about 10 minutes. Expecting the viewer to go do research to understand your show is not the way to go.

The wiki also has descriptions of each species as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defiance_(TV_series)

Really? Seriously? How could they NOT know that earth was inhabited? And this terraformer technology...it opened chasms in the ground and raised mountain ranges? Yeah, okay. What is the fascination of this producer with the St Louis Arch?

 

[Joelist]

Considering they were on Earth for 20 years before Arkfall and the show is set a good time after that, the English issue is actually not that big. Not explaining any of the overall backstory in the premiere, however, is.

 

[Overmind One]

Considering they were on Earth for 20 years before Arkfall and the show is set a good time after that, the English issue is actually not that big. Not explaining any of the overall backstory in the premiere, however, is.

Speaking English is not the issue...the swaggar and the way they use it is. In Earth: Final Conflict, D'Ann spoke English and did not speak as though they came from Wichita. So did the Vulcans in Trek. These Votans speak as though they come from the Midwest of the 1870s. They do not seem at all "alien" in any sense of the word.

 

[YJ02]

I wound up doing research online to get the premise so the premiere would make at least a little sense to me:

This is from the Wiki on the show:

The series is set in the near future, where aliens known collectively as Votans have come to Earth seeking a new home after their star system was destroyed in a stellar collision. The Votans had thought Earth was uninhabited, but upon their arrival in 2013 discover that humans are living on the planet, who respond to them with hostility and suspicion.
A limited number of Votans are allowed to settle in a colony in Brazil, and eventually two other colonies, but millions of Votans remained in hypersleep aboard their ships in orbit as negotiations dragged on with Earth governments for full-scale settlement.
Tensions rose for ten years, but the Votan and human governments were on the verge of negotiating a peaceful settlement, when in 2023 the Votan ambassador to the United Nations was assassinated by a disgruntled human supremacist on live television outside of the United Nations Headquarters in New York City. This sparked a disastrous global conflict between humans and the aliens known as the "Pale Wars".
The wars tore apart the planet for seven years, until their culmination in 2030 in the apocalyptic "Arkfall" event, when the Ark fleet in orbit mysteriously exploded. The aliens think a rogue human commander was responsible, while humans suspect it was an alien weapons experiment gone awry. Millions of Votans died in hypersleep. During the Arkfall, destroyed Arks rained down on Earth and accidentally released terraformer technology.
While the Votans had intended to use their terraforming technology in a carefully planned manner, the Arkfall haphazardly unleashed chaotic and radical changes to the biosphere and even the geology of Earth, making the planet dangerous to both humans and the aliens. The earth was scorched, chasms opened in the ground, new mountain ranges were raised, and the surface of the planet was covered with dust and debris.
Animal and plant species from the Votan star system were introduced to Earth, and both native and alien animal species were horribly mutated by the uncontrolled terraformer technology, creating bizarre and dangerous hybrids and new species.
Within a few months, the Pale Wars wound down as both sides had fought to the point of mutual exhaustion, and a ceasefire was declared. Few organized governments remained for either the humans or the aliens, and both sides factionalized as their members began looking out for themselves. In several areas, local human and Votan militias began to band together when they realized that they had to cooperate if they hoped to survive on this new, almost alien planet.
The debris from the destroyed Ark fleet now forms an artificial "Ark belt" in Earth orbit, which periodically rains down in small scale "Arkfalls", which present a hazard for survivors on the surface, but also provide valuable opportunities to salvage advanced technology aboard the Arks.
--- merged: Apr 18, 2013 at 12:29 PM ---
The problem is not explaining this stuff even in condensed form in the premiere - they had 2 hours and this could have been shown in scenes and explained in about 10 minutes. Expecting the viewer to go do research to understand your show is not the way to go.

The wiki also has descriptions of each species as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defiance_(TV_series)

Like I think you said elsewhere before-if you got to wiki it -instead of watching it--it didn't happen

The perfect english thing is a little bit-just a little--understandable-they have had 33 yrs to learn so, I would expect some heavy accents though

On language-why is it that TPTB's (even in some of my favorite shows/movies) make alien languages sound mid eastern or Slavic sounding? It seems to me that an alien language would be well. alien. When the kids playing cards are talking-and bear with me,I am no english mechanic expert-it seems clear that the nouns are nouns and the verbs and everything else are what they are-keys to understanding another language is to learn its mechanics

but they do this in many shows-another way to assume the audience is all idiotic and not paying attention
--- merged: Apr 18, 2013 at 4:24 PM ---

Wurd...also does it explain how the Votans not only speak perfect English, but seem perfectly familiar with human slang and value systems and at the end of the first episode, the girl with the diary says "My people have a God and...bla bla bla" . Call me a cynic, but I find it impossible to believe that religion (as we know it) will find its way into space. Math as a religion, yes. Physics as a religion or even the Universe as a religion. This show is a sci-fi Shirley Temple.
--- merged: Apr 18, 2013 at 3:13 PM ---


Really? Seriously? How could they NOT know that earth was inhabited? And this terraformer technology...it opened chasms in the ground and raised mountain ranges? Yeah, okay. What is the fascination of this producer with the St Louis Arch?

apparently,next ep we are going to see some of st lou underground-i don't see how some parts get sunk and buried (so quickly too) while highways and interstate bridges (looks like the I80 mississippi bridge) stays at surface-along with the arch

 

[shavedape]

Wurd...also does it explain how the Votans not only speak perfect English, but seem perfectly familiar with human slang and value systems and at the end of the first episode, the girl with the diary says "My people have a God and...bla bla bla" . Call me a cynic, but I find it impossible to believe that religion (as we know it) will find its way into space. Math as a religion, yes. Physics as a religion or even the Universe as a religion. This show is a sci-fi Shirley Temple.
--- merged: Apr 18, 2013 at 3:13 PM ---

Really? Seriously? How could they NOT know that earth was inhabited? And this terraformer technology...it opened chasms in the ground and raised mountain ranges? Yeah, okay. What is the fascination of this producer with the St Louis Arch?

Speaking English is not the issue...the swaggar and the way they use it is. In Earth: Final Conflict, D'Ann spoke English and did not speak as though they came from Wichita. So did the Vulcans in Trek. These Votans speak as though they come from the Midwest of the 1870s. They do not seem at all "alien" in any sense of the word.

Yes, this, all of this!

So much wrong with this show's premise. The language thing is really ridiculous. It's one thing for a human to learn a language and then be able to speak it flawlessly. But even then an accent almost always remains. Now consider the fact that we're talking about alien species (plural). The odds of them having the same physical structure, i.e. mouths exactly like humans and then the ability to speak flawless English without an accent is laughable. And don't even get me going about the swagger and the slang. That's just insulting to our intelligence as viewers.

Then there's the fact that there are several species of aliens that are all human, in looks, in ideology -- in short -- in toto. It's ridiculous to ask that viewers suspend their disbelief when we're talking about multiple species here, especially ones that come from the other side of the galaxy (or farther).

At this rate the only thing that will keep me tuned-in is the (very limited) eye candy, a.k.a Grant Bowler. And truth be told if I can't have him chained to a radiator in my basement I'd at least like to have the option of watching him on TV, even if it is on a lousy show. Don't blame me, I mean, just look at him. Those eyes clearly say: "A ball gag for me? Yes sir, please sir!"

 

[Bluce Ree]

Wurd...also does it explain how the Votans not only speak perfect English, but seem perfectly familiar with human slang and value systems and at the end of the first episode, the girl with the diarrhea says "My people have a God and...bla bla bla" .

Wow. A chick with diarrhea AND religion. How can this show possibly lose?

 

[ParagonPie]

Speaking English is not the issue...the swaggar and the way they use it is. In Earth: Final Conflict, D'Ann spoke English and did not speak as though they came from Wichita. So did the Vulcans in Trek. These Votans speak as though they come from the Midwest of the 1870s. They do not seem at all "alien" in any sense of the word.

I think one thing people tend to forget is, why do the Aliens speak the exact same as us? Coming from a completely different world they could of used other forms of communication, for example with technological progress one could they have some form of wireless communication telepathy. District 9 again is a good example of how to do this, have the Aliens speak their native language but instead have the humans understand it and vice versa. Or better yet, they could have a translator that over shadows their speaking one, so you still hear the native language but with a fragmented english one being spoken over it. Though that suggestion would be difficult to do and would take and effort. Think I answered my own question there.

 

[heisenberg]

OH MY GOD. What did I just watch? This show...its just . I guess today's writers think they can just take previously established genres/story ideas and reskin them with some latex and CGI and some "alien" language, and we get something entirely new? The overwhelming feel of this show is Old West. From the cheesy brothel scenes to the fight club to the clothing and the look of the town. The dialogue could have come right out of Bonanza or Gunsmoke. . The premise is so weakly introduced that it never becomes clear, and the "aliens" are way WAY too earthbound to be taken seriously. Are we (the catatonic, lobotomized audience) supposed to believe that these aliens came from millions of light years away on giant starship arks and brought earth-style philosophy, religion and behavior with them? The story is being told by an alien girl who keeps a freakin diary made of paper???

They aren't even trying. I dont like this show, and I probably wont like it. Too many things wrong with it. That means any interest in the game is also extinguished. But hey, this is Syfy so what did I expect? After watching it, I cannot think of a single character in this show that is appealing or believable. Oh, and this is NOT science fiction, it is a western drama. Any resemblence to scifi is unintentional.

Oh dear...
Don't mean to be negative but, my intuitions were right about this show all along then? When I saw the trailer, it never interested me one bit but trailers can be a lot of time,horrible! Should I waste my time with this show? The game seems to be a piece of crap. I really don't want to feel pissed off like I did with this game.

--- merged: Apr 19, 2013 at 2:14 AM ---
lol lurking IMDB discussion
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2189221/board/thread/213310847?d=213310847&p=1#213310847

 

[Joelist]

Do we need to get Bad Barney out for this show?

 

[Overmind One]

Oh dear...
Don't mean to be negative but, my intuitions were right about this show all along then? When I saw the trailer, it never interested me one bit but trailers can be a lot of time,horrible! Should I waste my time with this show? The game seems to be a piece of crap. I really don't want to feel pissed off like I did with this game.

--- merged: Apr 19, 2013 at 2:14 AM ---
lol lurking IMDB discussion
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2189221/board/thread/213310847?d=213310847&p=1#213310847

I just tried the game. Meh...the show does add flesh to the game, but the flesh is already putrid so why should I care? Since I watched the show before trying the game, all the stuff in the game made more sense (relatively speaking). The show will make you not like the game because it is an extension of it. But since you have played the game, I would suggest that you DO watch the episode. You can watch it free online at Syfy Rewind here: http://www.syfy.com/videos/Defiance/Full Episodes

I am now watching the episode over again so see if I missed details. OMG, this reminds me of analyzing the SGU episodes . Still, even with it's flaws, this show is still more entertaining than SGU was. I imagine it got a two-year deal out of the gate, but somehow I think it will be cancelled before they all play out...just like SGU.
--- merged: Apr 20, 2013 at 1:48 AM ---

Oh dear...
Don't mean to be negative but, my intuitions were right about this show all along then? When I saw the trailer, it never interested me one bit but trailers can be a lot of time,horrible! Should I waste my time with this show? The game seems to be a piece of crap. I really don't want to feel pissed off like I did with this game.

--- merged: Apr 19, 2013 at 2:14 AM ---
lol lurking IMDB discussion
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2189221/board/thread/213310847?d=213310847&p=1#213310847

LOLed at the opening post

--- merged: Apr 20, 2013 at 1:53 AM ---

Do we need to get Bad Barney out for this show?

I think you will need something much bigger...Kaiju-class. Have you watched it?

 

[Jim of WVa]

Is the game something that you download, or is it purchased on a DVD? Imagine having to chuck all of those DVDs used to publish the game.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Is the game something that you download, or is it purchased on a DVD? Imagine having to chuck all of those DVDs used to publish the game.

You buy, but you can probably download it as well:
https://www.defiance.com/en/game/

 

[Overmind One]

Is the game something that you download, or is it purchased on a DVD? Imagine having to chuck all of those DVDs used to publish the game.

You buy, but you can probably download it as well:
https://www.defiance.com/en/game/

I just decided to buy it. It cost $59.00 and is a downloadable game. But retailers are delling it in DVD form as well for the same price. Waste of money but I was curious.

 

[heisenberg]

I just decided to buy it. It cost $59.00 and is a downloadable game. But retailers are delling it in DVD form as well for the same price. Waste of money but I was curious.

I wish you could get your money back because this game is pure trash.